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Dr Strangetroll : or how I learned to stop arguing and be amused by the intransigence

Well I have to agree, trust in this thread does not seem warranted. The left vs. the right is just to divided to have any meaningful discussion. I have seen to many "conspiracy theories" become fact a year later.
Any examples?

When it comes to Covid, it would be nice to understand that we all want to end the pandemic. Covid is the enemy and we are together fighting the enemy.

We need to accept the facts as they come out, and right now, the best affordable defense we have is the vaccines. That does not mean we should discourage people looking for other solutions or better vaccines, but those solutions need to undergo the same scrutiny the vaccines went through. Which takes time and costs a lot of money.

People who promote things that do not work and discourage the use of something that has been proven (by using the scientific method) to work, are dangerous, as a result unvaxxed people are dying in their thousands. Now I won't be able to change the minds of the Bobs in this world, but I can show that he lives in a fantasy world (to put it nicely) to others.
 
Such as ?

You said "to(o) many", so I expect a long list of what started as a "conspiracy theory" and become "fact a year later".
"Covid 19 came from an open air market, not from a wuhan laboratory".

"Donald Trump colluded with the Russians to get elected. His claims his campaign was spied upon are conspiracy theory."

Turns out the Russia thing was Hillarys people setting him up, and he was spied on.

"It was a free and fair election."

Evidence has surfaced that it wasnt. Theres Zuckerbucks, which may or may not have been entirely legal, legal doesnt mean free and fair.
Now Dinesh D'Souza has released a movie trailer called 2000 Mules. If he can back up what we see in the trailer, and the videos arent doctored, this is going to put serious strains on our whole system and (about half of the) public trust in media and govt.

D'Souza is roundly attacked by the left for over the top bias, but to my knowledge he gets the underlying facts accurate. Hes never been accused of outright fabrication. Unless 2000 Mules is just that, it IS the evidence of widespread fraud people said didnt exist and have been persecuted just for thinking it might exist.
 
Any examples?

When it comes to Covid, it would be nice to understand that we all want to end the pandemic. Covid is the enemy and we are together fighting the enemy.

We need to accept the facts as they come out, and right now, the best affordable defense we have is the vaccines. That does not mean we should discourage people looking for other solutions or better vaccines, but those solutions need to undergo the same scrutiny the vaccines went through. Which takes time and costs a lot of money.

People who promote things that do not work and discourage the use of something that has been proven (by using the scientific method) to work, are dangerous, as a result unvaxxed people are dying in their thousands. Now I won't be able to change the minds of the Bobs in this world, but I can show that he lives in a fantasy world (to put it nicely) to others.
It seemed pretty obvious during the first 8 mos of the pandemic Democrats in the US wanted to maximize the chaos and misery covid was causing to cast aspersion on Trumps presidency.

The same factions that encouraged BLM rioting and looting.

Ever since, some Democrats, on a more personal level, seem to be wielding restrictions as an ideological or moral weapon. I cannot say both sides are exactly on the same page here.

Lets not pretend some people on the left always want prosperity for everyone in the country. Ever since the 60s, you can find sentiments being expressed about Americans being taken down a notch or two. Its a foundation of global socialism. The current administration displays this on several issues, border security (or lack of) is just one example.
Such self defeatism is a reprehensible quality and most leftists/liberals/democrats vehemently protest that it even exists.
We know it does.

As for covid 19 I lost count of how many democrats have said, in some form, that they wanted to see republicans dying from the virus just to prove they were wrong about vaccines/masks/supporting Trump/whatever.

Then theres the folks that got lucrative govt checks for unemployment and stimulus.

So for a variety of rationales Im going to have to disagree about everyone sharing the same goal. It would be naive to think its that simple.
 
"Luxury car maker Rolls-Royce raced to record-high sales in 2021. They soared 49% despite the global health crisis as demand for luxury vehicles surged, the carmaker said. The company sold 5,586..."
Follow the money........
 
Bob is always wrong.
Without looking at the details of that I am reminded that two debacles occurred- 9/11 happened under Bush Jr, Covid 19 happened under Trump, and I wonder why the cutoff date for that starts at such an odd year as... 1989? Why not 1980?
And what kind of jobs were these? Service jobs like those created under Bill Clinton, that paid minimum wage?
Is Bob always wrong, or are Democrats always using misleading stats to cover for their party's disastrous policies?
9/11, which virtually destroyed our economy for months, happened because while allowing the UN to corrupt sanctions and cause misery to the Iraqi people, angering Al Qaeda, Bill Clinton took no direct action against that groups escalating attacks, further emboldening them.
Yet 9/11 happened under W's watch and we fought two costly wars, which were arguably necessitated by Clintons negligence.

It takes a very simplified view to merely look at jobs created and pat a president on the back for it.

Finally how many of those jobs were created by direct expenditures by the federal government? Either acual employees hired by government, or through contracts in public works and infrastructure?

If thats your metric than Fidel Castro or Joseph Stalin could look like the greatest presidents ever. Or Carter, I had jobs under CETA for two summers in a row in the 70s. Dont know if my production was worth the minimum wage I was paid, we didnt spend the whole day screwing around. Just most of it. It was interesting. Spent about 2 months at a California Dept of Forestry fire station in Tuolumne County, washing fire trucks and hoses, and splitting firewood. That was work but we didnt complain because the firefighters didnt make much more than we did and risked their lives working long hours on fire lines.
 
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It seemed pretty obvious during the first 8 mos of the pandemic Democrats in the US wanted to maximize the chaos and misery covid was causing to cast aspersion on Trumps presidency.
That is a conspiracy theory. Trump did that himself, remember the disinfectant and light speech? I didn't believe it he actually said that, I mean surely his not that stupid...
And...


The same factions that encouraged BLM rioting and looting.
I am for black lives matter (against police brutality) but against the looting. Surely we can agree that police brutality and looting are bad things?

Ever since, some Democrats, on a more personal level, seem to be wielding restrictions as an ideological or moral weapon. I cannot say both sides are exactly on the same page here
Like restricting which bathrooms transsexuals are allowed to use? (Not only is it petty, how are you going to inspect their genders?)

Lets not pretend some people on the left always want prosperity for everyone in the country.
Most people, not just those on the left want prosperity for every one in the world. Surely you also want prosperity for every one in the world?

Ever since the 60s, you can find sentiments being expressed about Americans being taken down a notch or two.
Really, do you feel like you are below others, same, or higher?

Its a foundation of global socialism.
I have tax funded health care, why do you guys insist on paying more for your healthcare than any one else in the world while not even ranking in the top 20 in outcomes? Socialism is not always a bad thing, just like capitialsim is not always a bad thing.

The current administration displays this on several issues, border security (or lack of) is just one example.
Lol, I dislike crossing into your country, once I am there it is fine, your border agents are condescending (to put it nicely).

Such self defeatism is a reprehensible quality
Why? why do you always have to "win" what do you hope to gain? Try to think how you would cross the former Berlin wall and see if you can get to other side... Do you want a stronger border? how? Surely a wall would not slow you down more then seconds?

and most leftists/liberals/democrats vehemently protest that it even exists.
I don't feel defeated, do you?

We know it does.
It will always exist unfortunately, don't know the answer, but I doubt that calling it reprehensible is going to improve the situation.

As for covid 19 I lost count of how many democrats have said, in some form, that they wanted to see republicans dying from the virus just to prove they were wrong about vaccines/masks/supporting Trump/whatever.
That is reprehensible. Have you been able to count the republicans have said they wanted democrats to die?

Then theres the folks that got lucrative govt checks for unemployment and stimulus.
And why don't you want people to get lucrative checks?

So for a variety of rationales Im going to have to disagree about everyone sharing the same goal.
So you don't want the pandemic to end, because as far as I am aware every one else is.

It would be naive to think its that simple.
Why isn't it that simple? Why cant you work together with your neighbours on ending the pandemic? Does it matter who they vote for?
 
That is a conspiracy theory. Trump did that himself, remember the disinfectant and light speech? I didn't believe it he actually said that, I mean surely his not that stupid...
And...



I am for black lives matter (against police brutality) but against the looting. Surely we can agree that police brutality and looting are bad things?


Like restricting which bathrooms transsexuals are allowed to use? (Not only is it petty, how are you going to inspect their genders?)


Most people, not just those on the left want prosperity for every one in the world. Surely you also want prosperity for every one in the world?


Really, do you feel like you are below others, same, or higher?


I have tax funded health care, why do you guys insist on paying more for your healthcare than any one else in the world while not even ranking in the top 20 in outcomes? Socialism is not always a bad thing, just like capitialsim is not always a bad thing.


Lol, I dislike crossing into your country, once I am there it is fine, your border agents are condescending (to put it nicely).


Why? why do you always have to "win" what do you hope to gain? Try to think how you would cross the former Berlin wall and see if you can get to other side... Do you want a stronger border? how? Surely a wall would not slow you down more then seconds?


I don't feel defeated, do you?


It will always exist unfortunately, don't know the answer, but I doubt that calling it reprehensible is going to improve the situation.


That is reprehensible. Have you been able to count the republicans have said they wanted democrats to die?


And why don't you want people to get lucrative checks?


So you don't want the pandemic to end, because as far as I am aware every one else is.


Why isn't it that simple? Why cant you work together with your neighbours on ending the pandemic? Does it matter who they vote for?
Thanks for this hilarious reply. You should do stand up comedy.
Not one of these responses deserve the effort of a reply.
 
"Covid 19 came from an open air market, not from a wuhan laboratory".
That has not turned to a fact. It is a baseless claim now just as it was before. I have read about the backgrounds. Btw. gain of function research was an American order to the lab. Will you turn that into a conspiracy bullshit ? Can you imganine that was done only to blackmail them later ? I assume you can, I know it is nonsense, but a nice example of how to turn your "arguments" against you. This is all just an American conspiracy to blackmail the Chinese, distrct from the own incompetency, and destabilize society ! (hahaha).

It should, though, from a mere scientific pov, not be totally dismissed even if extremely unlikely. But the dumb claims were not helpful to achieve Chinese cooperation. There is nothing reasonable people can do now about it, which is a shame.

Edit: Maybe more for the bystanders ;-), this just snowed into my news (not yet reviewed), another evidence that the lab leak hypothesis is improbable, and bats are the more likely origin. Of course it is more complicated than that simple phrase of mine. Keep in mind, there's 20 years of research on the matter of SARS.
It is still unclear how exactly the virus found its way to humans. It probably did so multiple times, also months before it emerged on that market, which then acted as a superspreader event. The virus hasn't just evolved since then, it also did so before it was detected. That makes it extremely difficult to track though time and space, and even more in a politically poisoned environment that marginalizes people. That was just an extremnely dumb idea of some biased press company to put that silly claim forward.

"Donald Trump colluded with the Russians to get elected.
That also has not turned into a fact. It is still a claim just as it was before. Though I must admit that my personal feelings tend to accept it. But feelings are feelings.
Turns out the Russia thing was Hillarys people setting him up, and he was spied on.
Maybe he was by foreign powers. But you have no proof for that. Feelings are feelings, facts are a differtn thing, and you tend to frabicate them.
"It was a free and fair election."
It mostly was, except for the constant attempts from conspiracy theorists from a certain side. From what I read this is mostly the side that keeps on lamenting. they fabricate their own reality (like those mules below), and still try to to interfere shouting "The others did it!". Your society is split in two, you must mend that or it may end badly !
Evidence has surfaced that it wasnt. Theres Zuckerbucks, which may or may not have been entirely legal, legal doesnt mean free and fair.
Now Dinesh D'Souza has released a movie trailer called 2000 Mules. If he can back up what we see in the trailer, and the videos arent doctored, this is going to put serious strains on our whole system and (about half of the) public trust in media and govt.
There is no such evidence. That 200 Mules is nothing but a fabricated, rigged play and because of that was deleted on social media.


Let's keep this: A proof was not given for any claim, we haven't made a single step towards clarity. Intelligent people will not advance this way.
 
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Thanks for this hilarious reply. You should do stand up comedy.
Not one of these responses deserve the effort of a reply.
I tried to find common ground, the question you need to ask yourself is don't you want to? Why is it so hard to agree that covid is the enemy and look for workable solution?

All this party politics is just nonsense, it is why I don't bother voting and there are some massive changes going to happen starting this decade that no party is addressing here in Canada, and even less so in the US. Some politicians in European on the other hand are making the right noises, but it is far to few.. Expect massive unemployment and falling house prices in the next 20 years. If handled right is going to give us a lot more time to pursue our hobbies, if not it will lead to extreme poverty and a collapse of society. And to be clear, I do not have the answers either.
 
That has not turned to a fact. It is a baseless claim now just as it was before. I have read about the backgrounds. Btw. gain of function research was an American order to the lab. Will you turn that into a conspiracy bullshit ? Can you imganine that was done only to blackmail them later ? I assume you can, I know it is nonsense, but a nice example of how to turn your "arguments" against you. This is all just an American conspiracy to blackmail the Chinese, distrct from the own incompetency, and destabilize society ! (hahaha).

It should, though, from a mere scientific pov, not be totally dismissed even if extremely unlikely. But the dumb claims were not helpful to achieve Chinese cooperation. There is nothing reasonable people can do now about it, which is a shame.

Edit: Maybe more for the bystanders ;-), this just snowed into my news (not yet reviewed), another evidence that the lab leak hypothesis is improbable, and bats are the more likely origin. Of course it is more complicated than that simple phrase of mine. Keep in mind, there's 20 years of research on the matter of SARS.
It is still unclear how exactly the virus found its way to humans. It probably did so multiple times, also months before it emerged on that market, which then acted as a superspreader event. The virus hasn't just evolved since then, it also did so before it was detected. That makes it extremely difficult to track though time and space, and even more in a politically poisoned environment that marginalizes people. That was just an extremnely dumb idea of some biased press company to put that silly claim forward.


That also has not turned into a fact. It is still a claim just as it was before. Though I must admit that my personal feelings tend to accept it. But feelings are feelings.

Maybe he was by foreign powers. But you have no proof for that. Feelings are feelings, facts are a differtn thing, and you tend to frabicate them.

It mostly was, except for the constant attempts from conspiracy theorists from a certain side. From what I read this is mostly the side that keeps on lamenting. they fabricate their own reality (like those mules below), and still try to to interfere shouting "The others did it!". Your society is split in two, you must mend that or it may end badly !

There is no such evidence. That 200 Mules is nothing but a fabricated, rigged play and because of that was deleted on social media.


Let's keep this: A proof was not given for any claim, we haven't made a single step towards clarity. Intelligent people will not advance this way.
You can apologize now.


Truth is stranger than fiction, I dont need to fabricate anything.
 
That has not turned to a fact. It is a baseless claim now just as it was before. I have read about the backgrounds. Btw. gain of function research was an American order to the lab. Will you turn that into a conspiracy bullshit ? Can you imganine that was done only to blackmail them later ? I assume you can, I know it is nonsense, but a nice example of how to turn your "arguments" against you. This is all just an American conspiracy to blackmail the Chinese, distrct from the own incompetency, and destabilize society ! (hahaha).

It should, though, from a mere scientific pov, not be totally dismissed even if extremely unlikely. But the dumb claims were not helpful to achieve Chinese cooperation. There is nothing reasonable people can do now about it, which is a shame.

Edit: Maybe more for the bystanders ;-), this just snowed into my news (not yet reviewed), another evidence that the lab leak hypothesis is improbable, and bats are the more likely origin. Of course it is more complicated than that simple phrase of mine. Keep in mind, there's 20 years of research on the matter of SARS.
It is still unclear how exactly the virus found its way to humans. It probably did so multiple times, also months before it emerged on that market, which then acted as a superspreader event. The virus hasn't just evolved since then, it also did so before it was detected. That makes it extremely difficult to track though time and space, and even more in a politically poisoned environment that marginalizes people. That was just an extremnely dumb idea of some biased press company to put that silly claim forward.


That also has not turned into a fact. It is still a claim just as it was before. Though I must admit that my personal feelings tend to accept it. But feelings are feelings.

Maybe he was by foreign powers. But you have no proof for that. Feelings are feelings, facts are a differtn thing, and you tend to frabicate them.

It mostly was, except for the constant attempts from conspiracy theorists from a certain side. From what I read this is mostly the side that keeps on lamenting. they fabricate their own reality (like those mules below), and still try to to interfere shouting "The others did it!". Your society is split in two, you must mend that or it may end badly !

There is no such evidence. That 200 Mules is nothing but a fabricated, rigged play and because of that was deleted on social media.


Let's keep this: A proof was not given for any claim, we haven't made a single step towards clarity. Intelligent people will not advance this way.
LOL, 2000 mules hasnt even been released yet and youre asserting that its fabricated? Do you have a reference to that claim?

The trailer is on youtube for now.



However removal from social media hardly proves anything.

All the platforms censored stories of hunter bidens laptop as "russian disinfo". Yet we found later there wasnt a shred of evidence for that and soon after, it was revealed by liberal journalists to almost certainly be legit.

The zuckerbucks story is legit.

 
Safe to say those 2 didnt want the pandemic to end.
 
@Batvette , you haven't understood the news item. It doesn't say what you're insinuating. It cites Trump and one his lawyers claiming what's written the headline. That's a common technique to put sketchy claims forward to distract those willing to believe without questioning. That's part of propaganda. But read on.

Fox (who are by no means a reliable source) cite Trump and one of his lawyers claiming that lawyers from the Clinton campaign paid someone for something. The item doesn't say they actually did (which would probably put them close to a legal challenge), and Trump is a liar for sure. His lawyers and consultants, well didn't a bunch of those just quit because of a bog of made up tax records and things, and others are in legal trouble or have lost their approbation because of severe misbehaviour ? There you are.

If you want something more reasonable:

Citing passages from the article:
But the word “infiltrate,” even though it is in quotes, appears nowhere in Durham’s filing. Instead that word comes via Kash Patel, a former Trump administration official who offered his own spin on the document.
In simple words, those guys are making something up to distract from their own misbehaviour.

Apparently a white house contractor followed DNS records of people browsing from their offices. That's nothing bad per se. Any router keeps records to speed up access. Somebody who knows the protocol can have a look at any time if they have access to the network. If you want a closed net you need to physically disconnect.
The indictment does not make clear the circumstances of the White House contract, but Durham appears to be claiming the company kept track of the web addresses that Internet users at the White House were visiting. It is unclear whether such monitoring might have been part of the original contract. If so, that’s somewhat like hiring a security guard at the front gate to run a badge-scanning system, and then being shocked the security guard is keeping track of your comings and goings from the office. That’s not really the same as eavesdropping.
and
[..] and the circumstances suggest it took place in 2016.
So, when did Mr. Orange come into office ? Wasn't that 2017 ?

There you are.
 
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They data mined president elect and the white house servers after he was president.
 
Without looking at the details of that I am reminded that two debacles occurred- 9/11 happened under Bush Jr, Covid 19 happened under Trump, and I wonder why the cutoff date for that starts at such an odd year as... 1989? Why not 1980?
Are you really serious? President gets elected in the even year every 4 years and then inaugurated on Jan 20th in the following "odd" year. I hope you were drunk when you wrote this.
 
You can apologize now.


Truth is stranger than fiction, I dont need to fabricate anything.
LOL..this is before Durham came out with the statement on Jan 14th which rebutted everything Fox, OAN and Newsmax ran with. Notice how quiet the right wing news stations are now?
 
@Batvette , you haven't understood the news item. It doesn't say what you're insinuating. It cites Trump and one his lawyers claiming what's written the headline. That's a common technique to put sketchy claims forward to distract those willing to believe without questioning. That's part of propaganda. But read on.

Fox (who are by no means a reliable source) cite Trump and one of his lawyers claiming that lawyers from the Clinton campaign paid someone for something. The item doesn't say they actually did (which would probably put them close to a legal challenge), and Trump is a liar for sure. His lawyers and consultants, well didn't a bunch of those just quit because of a bog of made up tax records and things, and others are in legal trouble or have lost their approbation because of severe misbehaviour ? There you are.

If you want something more reasonable:

Citing passages from the article:

In simple words, those guys are making something up to distract from their own misbehaviour.

Apparently a white house contractor followed DNS records of people browsing from their offices. That's nothing bad per se. Any router keeps records to speed up access. Somebody who knows the protocol can have a look at any time if they have access to the network. If you want a closed net you need to physically disconnect.

and

So, when did Mr. Orange come into office ? Wasn't that 2017 ?

There you are.
Wrong. The Durham probe is an official investigation, the information is from official court filings.
Not particularly interested in partisan WaPo continued attempts to bury this story.
This is hardly as deep as it goes, weve had continued developments for several years that the russia collusion story was a democrat setup.
If it wasnt why was Trump never charged with any crime?
 

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