Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I agree. However, I made a choice of an EV where they continuously update the software and give me new features at no expense. I even get to reboot when there is a glitch.
Testing grid tied inverters
- Thread starter diWhy
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For 42, I think it'll be more than a few hundred bucks but I've not looked into that yet. Have not had much time to spend on this since I last posted. Also, because of the way the system is behaving, I have a feeling that the problem might be more about bad connections or something along those lines than failed hardware. Either way I have to get up there so I might as well spend a little time to figure out why the inverters aren't generating or not getting their power through to the panel.Recycle them. Then you can buy new charge controllers in two years that have their scavenged electronic parts
I would’ve ditched the microverts already myself. I don’t have any free time now- I wouldn’t chase my tail on those when a few hundred bucks and I can have it making power in minutes.
While some of the inverters and maybe some panels have likely died by now, I really think the rest is a programming issue with the inverters being turned off programmatically.
12VoltInstalls
life passes by too quickly to not live in freedom
I meant I could buy a charge controller and some cables and start plugging stuff in ?
In a just-in-time world of unrepairable, single-use obsoleting of parts like SCCs I’d not have had your patience especially knowing it would pay me back to get it functional.
I paid nearly $50K for this setup so the least I can do is invest time into it before pouring more money into it.
Right now, I'm pretty convinced the main problem is a software one and not necessarily a hardware one.
I simply don't agree with your thoughts of junking everything. That is a total waste of resources and even against the idea of trying to be more earth friendly by using solar maybe
. It's an unfortunate way of doing things whereas if someone here were educated on this manager, they could almost instantly know how to re-start most of this system.
I guess I don't understand why installers would not be all over manufacturers. Some of you are blaming the hardware as failure prone and junking it when it's in fact poor programming. In my case, I think this is a software issue that no one with pantheon will ever admit to.
These are the facts.
The system was generating precisely 0KW when I started this a few weeks back.
When I started, the manager found 0 inverters but since playing with it and re-scanning, I've now found 38 of the 42 panels.
Now it's generating over 2KW solely by working on the manager tells me that there are two things I need to confirm.
The last service person that was up there may have messed up some of the wiring because it seems like it's partly a wiring issue.
I believe that the manager is disabling the output of the inverters. I believe this because I was able to get some to start generating again just by using a plc command which enables or disables output to grid.
# plcgridctl -s 201051335000746 -g 2 -f 1
There are also a LOT of other PLC control commands so saying the hardware is junk is not accurate because they are software controlled.
You can control every aspect of these things such as voltage inputs, phase, voltage outputs, all kinds of delays, warnings, it's a very long list but I cannot find any documentation of course.
In addition, the manager clearly shows that they are generating power, just not outputting it.
I can see that the inverters are getting a good voltage range input, they just aren't outputting that.
The inverters are MPPT 18V-37V so here is an example.
This is the case with most of them. I got the manager to see most of the inverters again and many are getting 0 DC voltage so potentially dead panel but others are getting a good DC voltage but as you can see, Power is 0.0W, they aren't putting the power out. That's a software issue.
If the inverter was dead, it would not be giving me all of this information, it would simply not even communicate.
I'd like to confirm that before spending yet more on this but as I said, I will likely be converting at least half of it to non grid tied. Just have to investigate first then know what's next.
Right now, I'm pretty convinced the main problem is a software one and not necessarily a hardware one.
I simply don't agree with your thoughts of junking everything. That is a total waste of resources and even against the idea of trying to be more earth friendly by using solar maybe
. It's an unfortunate way of doing things whereas if someone here were educated on this manager, they could almost instantly know how to re-start most of this system. I guess I don't understand why installers would not be all over manufacturers. Some of you are blaming the hardware as failure prone and junking it when it's in fact poor programming. In my case, I think this is a software issue that no one with pantheon will ever admit to.
These are the facts.
The system was generating precisely 0KW when I started this a few weeks back.
When I started, the manager found 0 inverters but since playing with it and re-scanning, I've now found 38 of the 42 panels.
Now it's generating over 2KW solely by working on the manager tells me that there are two things I need to confirm.
The last service person that was up there may have messed up some of the wiring because it seems like it's partly a wiring issue.
I believe that the manager is disabling the output of the inverters. I believe this because I was able to get some to start generating again just by using a plc command which enables or disables output to grid.
# plcgridctl -s 201051335000746 -g 2 -f 1
There are also a LOT of other PLC control commands so saying the hardware is junk is not accurate because they are software controlled.
You can control every aspect of these things such as voltage inputs, phase, voltage outputs, all kinds of delays, warnings, it's a very long list but I cannot find any documentation of course.
In addition, the manager clearly shows that they are generating power, just not outputting it.
I can see that the inverters are getting a good voltage range input, they just aren't outputting that.
The inverters are MPPT 18V-37V so here is an example.
This is the case with most of them. I got the manager to see most of the inverters again and many are getting 0 DC voltage so potentially dead panel but others are getting a good DC voltage but as you can see, Power is 0.0W, they aren't putting the power out. That's a software issue.
If the inverter was dead, it would not be giving me all of this information, it would simply not even communicate.
I'd like to confirm that before spending yet more on this but as I said, I will likely be converting at least half of it to non grid tied. Just have to investigate first then know what's next.
12VoltInstalls
life passes by too quickly to not live in freedom
That’s fine by me. You sail your own ship.simply don't agree with your thoughts of junking everything. That is a total waste of resources and even against the idea of trying to be more earth friendly by using solar maybe
My thoughts are it’s broken, I’m paying for power, I’m not getting from solar. So curbing the outflow of cash makes sense to me- plus you then use green energy.
You ain’t gettin’ nuttin right now. Nobody will service it. Nobody knows the equipment. It’s obsolete. Jim, it’s dead!
Maybe someone knows the system?
Maybe not. Either way I misinterpreted your goals. I thought you wanted to get it running again, not fix it. It’s just that panels are far less likely to have died than the microvert gti’s.
I hope you fix it. If not, there’s other ways of getting back online that are probably cheaper than new microverts
The sail has wind... just not enough .
I'm not sure what you mean by getting it running vs fixing it? I have to fix it to get it running and that's what I'm slowly working on as time permits.
It's neither obsolete nor dead, it's generating 3KW now which is better than the 0KW it was doing when I started and that has not cost me a dime yet other than my own time.
Sure, it's old stuff now but if I can get it to work, I'm doing well since I already have a bunch of spare inverters and as you said, panels aren't as likely to fail. It's worth the effort.
Anyhow, I agree with what you're saying, I'm just not at that point yet since to me, this is a software issue. Solve the software issue, regain most of the system without having to invest in that part of it. Then I can still invest into converting part of it to battery.
I'll tell you, if some pantheon developer could see this and feel a little remorse for some of the folks they have left hanging, it sure would be nice to get a little help with that software.
.I'm not sure what you mean by getting it running vs fixing it? I have to fix it to get it running and that's what I'm slowly working on as time permits.
It's neither obsolete nor dead, it's generating 3KW now which is better than the 0KW it was doing when I started and that has not cost me a dime yet other than my own time.
Sure, it's old stuff now but if I can get it to work, I'm doing well since I already have a bunch of spare inverters and as you said, panels aren't as likely to fail. It's worth the effort.
Anyhow, I agree with what you're saying, I'm just not at that point yet since to me, this is a software issue. Solve the software issue, regain most of the system without having to invest in that part of it. Then I can still invest into converting part of it to battery.
I'll tell you, if some pantheon developer could see this and feel a little remorse for some of the folks they have left hanging, it sure would be nice to get a little help with that software.
Larry Oswald
New Member
Maybe you should look for another forum.
What's wrong with these ones? People seem to know what they are talking about. I've had some luck regaining the system so I think I'm on the right path thanks to some of the help here too.Maybe you should look for another forum.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I would wire a solar panel to your bench and connect a breaker to a micro trunk cable. The solar panel would ideally be in full sun. If you don't have good a good AC and DC clamp meter you could install shunts on both AC and DC legs to give you current and voltage measurements.
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I thought they are all the same but then I only have my own system.
As mentioned in the thread, they are Pantheon and have a 240VAC input and output to tie it with the next one in series.
The only other input is a DC one from the solar panel.
Would it be possible to take a grid tied inverter, connect it to a 240VAC supply (mains) then inject DC from a solar panel or equivalent and watch the difference in current?
As mentioned in the thread, they are Pantheon and have a 240VAC input and output to tie it with the next one in series.
The only other input is a DC one from the solar panel.
Would it be possible to take a grid tied inverter, connect it to a 240VAC supply (mains) then inject DC from a solar panel or equivalent and watch the difference in current?
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I did not read the other thread. Maybe your micros are different than mine. Mine are all in parallel on the trunk cable with respect to the 240 volt AC connection. Each micro connects to one solar panel..
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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Ok, good to have a PV panel in series as an impedance, current limit.
You can wire multiple panels in series or parallel to explore different operating points. Two in parallel could be tilted to get high or low current.
Or, wire a power supply in series with a panel (after evaluating what maximum voltage allowed), and you can vary apparent PV voltage from the bench.
Connect an ammeter to AC connection of inverter, read current off power supply, voltage with DMM, and log operating points.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Just to clarify what is the same, you're are connected in parallel not serial?
I'm connected in serial, one connected to the next. Parallel would be if each panel/inverter would be individually connected to a panel or some other device that is taking each panel/inverter.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Did you find a way to bench test your inverters?
I have not found a way yet. I have an idea but it's not been confirmed or ruled out by anyone yet.
The idea again is...
I need to test inverters before they go into the system. It's too hard to take one down, replace it and see what happens. I bought a lot of used ones and some don't seem to work so I need to test them before installing.
Would it be possible to take a grid tied inverter, connect it to a 240VAC supply (mains) then inject DC from a solar panel or equivalent and watch the difference in current?
The idea again is...
I need to test inverters before they go into the system. It's too hard to take one down, replace it and see what happens. I bought a lot of used ones and some don't seem to work so I need to test them before installing.
Would it be possible to take a grid tied inverter, connect it to a 240VAC supply (mains) then inject DC from a solar panel or equivalent and watch the difference in current?
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,038
"Equivalent" to solar panel should be selected carefully, so as to not exceed input current specs.
You ought to be able to use MC extension cables to bring wires down from PV panels in existing array. Put through a suitable switch, then to your inverter under test.
Does inverter just power up on its own when connected to AC (and PV)? Or does it require an additional box communicating with it? (Some may have anti-islanding and other features provided by separate box. Some may need to be commissioned by a command.)
Or if one panel at edge of array has accessible microinverter, just sit on the roof and swap in each microinverter, using ammeter to observe AC or DC current.
You ought to be able to use MC extension cables to bring wires down from PV panels in existing array. Put through a suitable switch, then to your inverter under test.
Does inverter just power up on its own when connected to AC (and PV)? Or does it require an additional box communicating with it? (Some may have anti-islanding and other features provided by separate box. Some may need to be commissioned by a command.)
Or if one panel at edge of array has accessible microinverter, just sit on the roof and swap in each microinverter, using ammeter to observe AC or DC current.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Yes it would be possible but I am not sure what the current alone is going to tell you unless you also measure voltage? You would have to do the math (Volts times Amps equals Watts) to see if the output of the panels in DC is being converted to AC.
As I was posting this, @Hedges offered a good suggestion. It all depends on how accessible your roof is in relation to the inverters you want to test. Do you have a clamp on Ammeter that can measure DC and AC? Most of them just do AC.
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