eg4 6500 ex48 one battery

can this be ran off of one 48v 100ah eg4 battery??

will this cause problems? does it require more overhead.

looking to get this combo right now can only get one battery, hope to have two when i can.

Depends on loads for how long it will run before it is discharged. The inverter itself will consume some so that also has to be allowed for.

Example: 200w of house loads + 100watts of self consumption = 300w each hour
Battery has fully charged 100ah at 48 volts for a total of around 4800wh
4800wh/300w = 16 hours.
W=VA

eMptyBox said:

can this be ran off of one 48v 100ah eg4 battery??

Click to expand...

6500 ac watts / .85 inverter efficiency / 48 volts low cutoff = 159.31372549 service amps
159.31372549 service amps / .8 fuse headroom = 199.142156863 fault amps

You battery has a maximum discharge rating of 100 amps(30 recommended).

100 amps * .85 conversion factor * 48 volts low cutoff = 4080 ac watts.
30 amps * .85 conversion factor * 48 volts low cutoff = 1224 ac watts.

As long as you don't exceed ~4000 ac watts you are within spec.

eMptyBox said:

will this cause problems?

Click to expand...

Probably yes.
You will like trip a BMS over-current disconnect at some point.
Also you are likely to trip the BMS on under-voltage.

eMptyBox said:

does it require more overhead.

Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean.

eMptyBox said:

looking to get this combo right now can only get one battery, hope to have two when i can.

Click to expand...

3 batteries would be better.

Will you require 120/240VAC split phase power?

Please read their user manual completely through. Most answers are in there and are to protect you, the equipment, the manufacturer, the distributor and property. You need 250aH (minimum) of battery for every EG4 6500ex. I have 500aH for my two EG4 6500ex. I have 2800aH for two Sol-Ark 12K. I agree with their minimum recommendations. My EG4 and 12K each consume, at idle, "about" 2kWh per day.

John Frum said:

6500 ac watts / .85 inverter efficiency / 48 volts low cutoff = 159.31372549 service amps
159.31372549 service amps / .8 fuse headroom = 199.142156863 fault amps

You battery has a maximum discharge rating of 100 amps(30 recommended).

100 amps * .85 conversion factor * 48 volts low cutoff = 4080 ac watts.
30 amps * .85 conversion factor * 48 volts low cutoff = 1224 ac watts.

As long as you don't exceed ~4000 ac watts you are within spec.

Click to expand...

thanks a lot for the math and showing it to me, helped me realize where the numbers come from better about this "overhead", if i had two batteries at max they could do around 8000 ac watts, meaning my overhead would be over 20% for a 6500w inverter. [ thank you ]

John Frum said:

Probably yes.
You will like trip a BMS over-current disconnect at some point.
Also you are likely to trip the BMS on under-voltage.

Click to expand...

i understand the over-current disconnect, but why under-voltage? because its drained?

John Frum said:

Not sure what you mean.

Click to expand...

honestly im a noob, but an avid learner. so i really don't know too much about it:
https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-read-write-cable/ this description made me question it. this item is auto-added to your cart when you purchase the eg4 lifepower4 battery. it used the 6500w inverter as the example, stating that you need 2 batteries to power it properly.

John Frum said:

3 batteries would be better.

Click to expand...

now that i see the manual they recommend 250 AH, you are correct 3 would be best, but im not sure if i can afford that any time soon.

John Frum said:

Will you require 120/240VAC split phase power?

Click to expand...

ill just need 120V

RV10flyer said:

Please read their user manual completely through. Most answers are in there and are to protect you, the equipment, the manufacturer, the distributor and property. You need 250aH (minimum) of battery for every EG4 6500ex. I have 500aH for my two EG4 6500ex. I have 2800aH for two Sol-Ark 12K. I agree with their minimum recommendations. My EG4 and 12K each consume, at idle, "about" 2kWh per day.

Click to expand...

thank you aswell, i was lazy and i thought what i needed to know would've been in the spec sheet. that's my fault.

seeing that i dont think ill be able to afford the batteries soon as i'd like should i try to go with the 3000w inverter, as the manual recommended 100AH and thats what i would have with one eg4 battery.

of course its not in stock and no ETA, but thats life.

any recommendations or tips are greatly appreciated!

eMptyBox said:

thanks a lot for the math and showing it to me, helped me realize where the numbers come from better about this "overhead", if i had two batteries at max they could do around 8000 ac watts, meaning my overhead would be over 20% for a 6500w inverter. [ thank you ]

i understand the over-current disconnect, but why under-voltage? because its drained?

Click to expand...

The battery voltage will sag under load, possibly enough to get a low voltage disconnect before high current disconnect.

eMptyBox said:

honestly im a noob, but an avid learner. so i really don't know too much about it:
https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-read-write-cable/ this description made me question it. this item is auto-added to your cart when you purchase the eg4 lifepower4 battery. it used the 6500w inverter as the example, stating that you need 2 batteries to power it properly.

Click to expand...

Still not understanding what you mean by overhead.

I will mention this again because it seems to have been lost. The battery you first mention will run the inverter you mentioned just not for long periods if your loads are high (within the max rating). You can indeed get by so long as you control your loading and to avoid a BMS trip on low voltage you can set the inverter to turn of (go into bypass) at a higher battery voltage.

As John Frum showed the 100amp BMS limits you to a maximum load of ~4600 watts for starting and running. Just stay under it and you will have an inverter you can eventually add more to.

The so called minimum in the manual is to run the inverter at rated capacity. Just run less.

John Frum said:

The battery voltage will sag under load, possibly enough to get a low voltage disconnect before high current disconnect.


Still not understanding what you mean by overhead.

Click to expand...

this is what i had saw and it made me skeptical of purchasing this combo knowing i could only have one battery.

i dont know the real definition of overhead, this is what i found on google: "that's the amount of power that's needed to bring the hardware up to be able"

anyone have a definition or example of overhead?

Mattb4 said:

I will mention this again because it seems to have been lost. The battery you first mention will run the inverter you mentioned just not for long periods if your loads are high (within the max rating). You can indeed get by so long as you control your loading and to avoid a BMS trip on low voltage you can set the inverter to turn of (go into bypass) at a higher battery voltage.

Click to expand...

hmm im not sure if i understand going into bypass, ill be off grid.

Mattb4 said:

As John Frum showed the 100amp BMS limits you to a maximum load of ~4600 watts for starting and running. Just stay under it and you will have an inverter you can eventually add more to.

Click to expand...

i would normally run around 1750 watts. occasionaly i might go to 3500 watt if i had several things plugged in.

Mattb4 said:

The so called minimum in the manual is to run the inverter at rated capacity. Just run less.

Click to expand...

this is what i was thinking but i got worried by the manual and also the item description.

Bypass is for those that have another source of AC such as utility or generator. Without that when your battery hits the low voltage setpoint your inverter will just shut off. At 3500w you would be still within the 100a BMS but you would want to understand that your battery will drain quickly. Like in about a hour without solar.

Your thinking was not wrong. JF did point out the things you should keep in mind for loading and battery protection.

eMptyBox said:

View attachment 111483
this is what i had saw and it made me skeptical of purchasing this combo knowing i could only have one battery.

i dont know the real definition of overhead, this is what i found on google: "that's the amount of power that's needed to bring the hardware up to be able"

anyone have a definition or example of overhead?

Click to expand...

In this context it means excess bms and battery capacity.
6500 ac watts / .85 conversion factor / 48 volts low cutoff = 159.31372549 inverter amps
159.31372549 inverter amps / .8 overhead = 199.142156863 battery/bms amps

Mattb4 said:

Bypass is for those that have another source of AC such as utility or generator. Without that when your battery hits the low voltage setpoint your inverter will just shut off.

Click to expand...

Roger that I have a generator aswell but I have to pull to start it.

Mattb4 said:

Your thinking was not wrong. JF did point out the things you should keep in mind for loading and battery protection.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I want this size unit because I do want to expand and potentially output more. Giving myself room to grow [also has 2 mppts]

John Frum said:

In this context it means excess bms and battery capacity.
6500 ac watts / .85 conversion factor / 48 volts low cutoff = 159.31372549 inverter amps
159.31372549 inverter amps / .8 overhead = 199.142156863 battery/bms amps

Click to expand...

So this means I'd put a 200 amp fuse on battery? 250? 125? Sorry I'm noob still

eMptyBox said:

Roger that I have a generator aswell but I have to pull to start it.

Thanks. I want this size unit because I do want to expand and potentially output more. Giving myself room to grow [also has 2 mppts]

So this means I'd put a 200 amp fuse on battery? 250? 125? Sorry I'm noob still

Click to expand...

I was just explaining what overhead meant in the context of the sig solar doco.

We can talk about fusing if you like though.

Are you only ever planning on the one AIO=all in one?
Do you have the signature solar rack with busbars?
Are you planning on getting one?

John Frum said:

I was just explaining what overhead meant in the context of the sig solar doco.

We can talk about fusing if you like though.

Click to expand...

Yeah I've been back and forth the past few days on fusing.

John Frum said:

Are you only ever planning on the one AIO=all in one?

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Pretty much yeah, I actually returned a lot of victron products I almost made a 12v system. Then I learned more and I'm planning on 48v, the AIO saved me a lot of money and I'm currently budget building.

John Frum said:

Do you have the signature solar rack with busbars?
Are you planning on getting one?

Click to expand...

If it's the case no, I planned on storing it in a 5th wheel compartment

eMptyBox said:

Yeah I've been back and forth the past few days on fusing.

Pretty much yeah, I actually returned a lot of victron products I almost made a 12v system. Then I learned more and I'm planning on 48v, the AIO saved me a lot of money and I'm currently budget building.

If it's the case no, I planned on storing it in a 5th wheel compartment

Click to expand...

Ok so this is a mobile application.
Signature solar doesn't document how the relays in the automatic transfer switch work so this unit would not be my first choice for a mobile application.
I guess you will also need a 48->12 volt dc2dc converter, confirm?

John Frum said:

Ok so this is a mobile application.
Signature solar doesn't document how the relays in the automatic transfer switch work so this unit would not be my first choice for a mobile application.
I guess you will also need a 48->12 volt dc2dc converter, confirm?

Click to expand...

Sorry for confusion, this is stationary only.
I planned on just using the AC output to the built in converter in RV for 12v.

I didn't see where you mentioned PV input, maybe I missed it glossing over this, but if you're going to use PV input this can change the outcome to your question. I have not read the manual for the these new EG4 inverters but they are MPP clones, the MPP and growatt can use incoming PV and apply that directly to the load without the need to store to battery. In fact watts 24/7 did a video on using a MPP I believe to power a welder with just the inverter and no battery. While he did have a larger array it did show this is possible. From recollection "SBU" mode would use incoming DC PV and invert that to AC directly applying that to the load and any difference if needed would have be made up with the battery or grid/generator. There's limitations to this such as the sun has to be out and providing adequate intensity; I'd assume there's limits on this for sure with heavy starting loads but what I'm saying is it should help. I was going to do something similar to what you're trying to achieve...get a single inverter and a battery or two with about 2k ore more in PV input to shore up my deep freezers, fridges and charge cell phones and a few ham radios etc. Then expand latter when needed. There's a guy on the youtube that uses a mobile trailer with a single MPP and a battery or two ..can't remember but he has panels attached to the trailer for PV input. He did a video on making coffee with a standard drip coffee maker, running a space heater and cooking something in a microwave while the sun was intense that day. Maybe others that have experience with this can chime in.

eMptyBox said:

Sorry for confusion, this is stationary only.
I planned on just using the AC output to the built in converter in RV for 12v.

Click to expand...

That is brutally inefficient.

~75% of ~85% ~= 63.75% net efficiency.

John Frum said:

That is brutally inefficient.

~75% of ~85% ~= 63.75% net efficiency.

Click to expand...

the issue for me is i dont know which wires are supposed to connect to a 12v battery, i wasnt able to tell just yet.. so i was going to just skip it and go to the AC.

i would hardly use the 12v, besides lights, water heater, and water pump, would it be causing an idle draw, or just inefficient when i use those applications? if so its not an issue for me

eMptyBox said:

the issue for me is i dont know which wires are supposed to connect to a 12v battery, i wasnt able to tell just yet.. so i was going to just skip it and go to the AC.

i would hardly use the 12v, besides lights, water heater, and water pump, would it be causing an idle draw, or just inefficient when i use those applications? if so its not an issue for me

Click to expand...

Your all in one has a high idle draw and the ac2dc converter has a fairly high idle draw.
Plus the conversion inefficiency.
We can help you wire in a dc2dc converter.

realpinochet said:

I didn't see where you mentioned PV input, maybe I missed it glossing over this, but if you're going to use PV input this can change the outcome to your question. I have not read the manual for the these new EG4 inverters but they are MPP clones, the MPP and growatt can use incoming PV and apply that directly to the load without the need to store to battery. In fact watts 24/7 did a video on using a MPP I believe to power a welder with just the inverter and no battery. While he did have a larger array it did show this is possible. From recollection "SBU" mode would use incoming DC PV and invert that to AC directly applying that to the load and any difference if needed would have be made up with the battery or grid/generator. There's limitations to this such as the sun has to be out and providing adequate intensity; I'd assume there's limits on this for sure with heavy starting loads but what I'm saying is it should help.

Click to expand...

yes primarily PV input, battery to keep fridge running and A/C in eco mode over night [hot where i live]

realpinochet said:

I was going to do something similar to what you're trying to achieve...get a single inverter and a battery or two with about 2k ore more in PV input to shore up my deep freezers, fridges and charge cell phones and a few ham radios etc. Then expand latter when needed. There's a guy on the youtube that uses a mobile trailer with a single MPP and a battery or two ..can't remember but he has panels attached to the trailer for PV input. He did a video on making coffee with a standard drip coffee maker, running a space heater and cooking something in a microwave while the sun was intense that day. Maybe others that have experience with this can chime in.

Click to expand...

i also want the 6500w because it has two mppts, so when i upgrade to new better "48v" battery panels i can just install a new string of panels. i would like to have my system over-paneled aswell, my goal would be to approach the 4000watts in each string which i believe is the more accurate max for these units.

John Frum said:

Your all in one has a high idle draw and the ac2dc converter has a fairly high idle draw.
Plus the conversion inefficiency.
We can help you wire in a dc2dc converter.

Click to expand...

this would be the best for me, there was so many wires i couldnt tell what fed the integrated 12v system, i thought i had it disconnected and i ended up getting a spark, so i'll have to investigate further.. [in theory the wire would just lead right to the built in converter system/12v fuse box correct?]

eMptyBox said:

this would be the best for me, there was so many wires i couldnt tell what fed the integrated 12v system, i thought i had it disconnected and i ended up getting a spark, so i'll have to investigate further.. [in theory the wire would just lead right to the built in converter system/12v fuse box correct?]

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Sure but we can do better than that.

Please post a picture of your combined ac/dc distribution center showing both the fuses and breakers and the corresponding maps.

eMptyBox said:

yes primarily PV input, battery to keep fridge running and A/C in eco mode over night [hot where i live]

i also want the 6500w because it has two mppts, so when i upgrade to new better "48v" battery panels i can just install a new string of panels. i would like to have my system over-paneled aswell, my goal would be to approach the 4000watts in each string which i believe is the more accurate max for these units.

Click to expand...

Some of the inverters have a feature called "smart load" I believe. When the battery is full and there's incoming PV it can dump it to a smart load circuit..seems like lots of folks use a water heater to dump the load to. This way you can only use the battery to power the essentials like lights and a fridge and during the day if there's good PV input, and your battery is full, it can heat some water for you later.

John Frum said:

Sure but we can do better than that.

Please post a picture of your combined ac/dc distribution center showing both the fuses and breakers and the corresponding maps.

Click to expand...

I'm not on site right now, it's an 89 classic coachman 5th wheel. I wasn't able to find a manual on my phone yet