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diy solar

They want to charge you for using the sun now

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What's worse, is that the FBI, that had the laptop, was contacting media channels and pushing the false narratives.
They had a election to steal. You had Biden on camera admitting / bragging about blackmailing Ukraine and a eye witness "bobulinski" who brought the receipts on Bidens and Hunters China deals. All of this was before the election but the FBI was too busy arresting parents at town hall and school meetings. Now you have a verified diary, by the FBI, that indicates Biden was inappropriate with his daughter and what do they do...arrest the journalist for reporting on it. The ministry of truth is alive and well.
 
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Most extreme "isms" are mental disorders of one sort or another.. as is conservatism.

And, nobody is banning books.
BULL $HIT.
Parents are standing up and saying you don't have the right to teach my child how to be a degenerate with your pornography you call books in school. They are suppose to be there to learn math, history, how to read and write and that's it. The basics!
The books they are banning are from school libraries, not classroom curriculum. Nice try, but you just pulled a California solar panel trick. Funny thing, I bet you don't even realize it.
I just got into a debate with someone about this on another forum. His claim was the same, that they were putting gay, lgbt, queer, and sex books in the classroom with 3rd graders, and he provided links to wacko right wing websites to back up his claim. I think took his links, looked up the school names and the names of the parents complaining, and they were talking about high school, not 3rd graders. His link was, as I pointed out, the California solar panel trick.. A component of truth (banning books + sexual content) but mixed with fake news (3rd graders + classroom instruction).

So once again, nice try but a big fail.

Instead you have pink haired teachers telling little Susie that because she asked for a catchers mitt for Christmas she must be a boy and should consider mutilating herself to be happy. I also don't want my child being told how cool marxism is and how America is evil or since they have white skin they are inherently a oppressor.
You are clueless and you are doing nothing but listening to right wing wacko websites because NONE of what you just said happens in the real world.

Conservatives don't call this progress so we naturally oppose it; generally when society is collapsing into a dystopian hell people regardless of ideology start rejecting the program. I'm friends with moderate liberals and while we don't see eye to eye they for the most part agree with what I said above. They also voted republican or independent because they are not trapped in a echo chamber getting high off their own farts.

Conservatives fear progress and naturally oppose all change. I am not a liberal or a conservative, I will, generally speaking, adhere to what can be proved as fact and what follows science.

If you are afraid of what the school is teaching your child, then you have no confidence in your own child's intellect. And if you believe a school teacher has THAT MUCH influence over your child, then you are failing as a parent.

Our schools are not the problem, it is the parents that are the problem. Most of these idiot parents couldn't tell you the formula to find the area of a circle if their life depended on it. Most have no idea what a proton or a neutron is, or anything on the periodic table. Most parents are too busy with their own affairs to bother with their own children.

There was a study done about 10 years ago, they found that 1 in 4 Americans do not understand that the Earth revolves around the Sun. Seriously, google it.. I'm not joking.

I was talking with a neighbor the other day and I said "That James Webb telescope is finding galaxies out in the cosmos that seem to defy our current understanding".. and his response was "Do you think NASA will send a probe there?" WTF?

People are stupid.
 
Dude That kind of material does not belong in elementary and middle school libraries.

And sorry, you just totally contradicted yourself. First you say that schools don't have as much influence over the kids as parents, then you say parents are stupid and too busy to teach their kids anything. Well which is it?

And kids are very impressionable. They're like sponges. They don't have critical thinking skills yet. So throwing garbage at them in school is only going to harm them, nevermind the fact thatcgarbage shouldn't be getting thrown around in school in the first place.
 
Most extreme "isms" are mental disorders of one sort or another.. as is conservatism.


BULL $HIT.

The books they are banning are from school libraries, not classroom curriculum. Nice try, but you just pulled a California solar panel trick. Funny thing, I bet you don't even realize it.
I just got into a debate with someone about this on another forum. His claim was the same, that they were putting gay, lgbt, queer, and sex books in the classroom with 3rd graders, and he provided links to wacko right wing websites to back up his claim. I think took his links, looked up the school names and the names of the parents complaining, and they were talking about high school, not 3rd graders. His link was, as I pointed out, the California solar panel trick.. A component of truth (banning books + sexual content) but mixed with fake news (3rd graders + classroom instruction).

So once again, nice try but a big fail.


You are clueless and you are doing nothing but listening to right wing wacko websites because NONE of what you just said happens in the real world.



Conservatives fear progress and naturally oppose all change. I am not a liberal or a conservative, I will, generally speaking, adhere to what can be proved as fact and what follows science.

If you are afraid of what the school is teaching your child, then you have no confidence in your own child's intellect. And if you believe a school teacher has THAT MUCH influence over your child, then you are failing as a parent.

Our schools are not the problem, it is the parents that are the problem. Most of these idiot parents couldn't tell you the formula to find the area of a circle if their life depended on it. Most have no idea what a proton or a neutron is, or anything on the periodic table. Most parents are too busy with their own affairs to bother with their own children.

There was a study done about 10 years ago, they found that 1 in 4 Americans do not understand that the Earth revolves around the Sun. Seriously, google it.. I'm not joking.

I was talking with a neighbor the other day and I said "That James Webb telescope is finding galaxies out in the cosmos that seem to defy our current understanding".. and his response was "Do you think NASA will send a probe there?" WTF?

People are stupid.
Yes they are putting that crap in schools starting in elementary. Even down here in Texas we've had to take the liberal enclaves of Austin and Houston to court to have it removed. First hand experience isn't some right wing conspiracy; you don't have to take legal action if something isn't happening. That filth does not belong in the school period! And, I'll go as far to say it doesn't belong in the community libraries either if the community says it doesn't, we pay for that library. College.. that's another debate but ironically a lot of colleges have shutdown free speech if it's antithetical to the liberal Marxist, crt, LGBT++ whatever narrative. While conservatives have our issues like everybody else we're not trying to get your son Rob to chop his junk off and identify as Roberta; nor convince your daughter she can do anything a man can and try out for linebacker on a boys team. Allowing dudes into the woman's bathroom..ah no. That not progress ..that's a degenerating society with no direction or identity. And, for the parents being dolts comment...you do realize the kids graduating today can't read or write at grade level, can't do basic math, can't even tell you what the continents are or countries in them. They can tell you who their favorite ticktok influences are or name all the kardashians and who they are dating. I do agree with you that the parents are a big part of the issue with not being involved and that's what happens when you let the state run your schools and raise your kids for you. In our public schools we're testing here in the USA at the bottom. The private schools are the ones excelling for the most part. School choice is a big part of resolving this. Open borders, no border is another progressive agenda. It's destroying this country. If you haven't seen what's happening in Texas and Arizona you should see if first hand.
 
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Yes they are putting that crap in schools starting in elementary.
Please be specific, what crap in elementary? Please name a school or article specifically naming a school, and point out exactly what content in that school you find offensive or inappropriate.

Even down here in Texas we've had to take the liberal enclaves of Austin and Houston to court to have it removed. First hand experience isn't some right wing conspiracy; you don't have to take legal action if something isn't happening.
To have what (specifically) removed?
First hand experience? Were you in the court yourself? Or did you read it in the media? Because if you read it in the media, then it isn't first hand experience.. especially if you read in in some conservative media, I can almost guarantee it will be a California Solar Panel article.

That filth does not belong in the school period! And, I'll go as far to say it doesn't belong in the community libraries either if the community says it doesn't, we pay for that library.
Everyone pays for that library. If you don't want to read a book, don't read it. Right wing conservative censorship is nothing different than the church wanting to decide who gets to read what.

College.. that's another debate but ironically a lot of colleges have shutdown free speech if it's antithetical to the liberal Marxist, crt, LGBT++ whatever narrative.
Yes, isn't that interesting. Some of the most educated people have shut down the right wing extremists. Non-government colleges are not subject to free speech laws any more than facebook, twitter, or this website is.

While conservatives have our issues like everybody else we're not trying to get your son Rob to chop his junk off and identify as Roberta; nor convince your daughter she can do anything a man can and try out for linebacker on a boys team.
It goes back to the same thing. If someone is concerned that others are having an influence on their children, then it is their own parental failure at issue. They'll never admit that however.

Allowing dudes into the woman's bathroom..ah no. That not progress ..that's a degenerating society with no direction or identity.
This one has always interested me.. While there are certainly psychological issues at play due to general human ignorance and cultural norms, what specifically has you concerned about mixing men and women in the same bathroom? The most common complaint I hear is that a man entering a woman's bathroom could commit a sexual crime of some sort (or some variation on that statement)

And, for the parents being dolts comment...you do realize the kids graduating today can't read or write at grade level, can't do basic math, can't even tell you what the continents are or countries in them. They can tell you who their favorite ticktok influences are or name all the kardashians and who they are dating. I do agree with you that the parents are a big part of the issue with not being involved and that's what happens when you let the state run your schools and raise your kids for you.
And that is strictly a failure of the parents, not the schools. Parents are not a "big part" of the issue, they ARE the issue, they are the only issue. Don't blame the schools for the failure of the parents. My 9 year old daughter reads 1500 pages a week in books, she doesn't have a cell phone, isn't allowed video games (yet), and is only allowed to access educational materials on the computer.
How many people do you know, how many people have you ever known, who read 1500 pages a week? My wife has to bring boxes and bags between her car and the library and my child picks out whatever she wants to read, no strings attached.

Of course, my 9 year old knows the first three lines of the periodic table from memory and can identify an element by counting electrons. She also plays chess with the neighbor's 15 year old and can hold her own. She builds estes rockets, has her own bb gun, and helps me gut and butcher hogs and deer. She picks up bugs and rocks and puts them under her microscope and pokes them with a stick, and part of her household chores is starting the wood stove and keeping it going.

It's not the schools, its the parents.

In our public schools we're testing here in the USA at the bottom. The private schools are the ones excelling for the most part. School choice is a big part of resolving this.
Private schools are not excelling but on paper. That's not to say none of them are, but most are religiously orientated and the students they produce are morons in science. Fairly good with history, literature, writing, and even math, but they lack in science. The problem with private schools is that their history, literature, and writing is all selective based on their ideology.

Any child taught a political or social ideology will always grow up with a handicap.

Open borders, no border is another progressive agenda. It's destroying this country. If you haven't seen what's happening in Texas and Arizona you should see if first hand.
Tell me, back a few decades ago, no one was really complaining about the Mexican boarder.. why is that? Mexican's have been crossing the boarder illegally since we had a boarder, and yet it's only been in the last 15 years or so that anyone has made it an issue. Why? I know why it is, I'm wondering if you do.

Also, if you like cheap grocery store food, what do you think is going to happen to it when the Mexican workers are gone? You don't seriously think American's are going to pick that food do you?
 
Please be specific, what crap in elementary? Please name a school or article specifically naming a school, and point out exactly what content in that school you find offensive or inappropriate.


To have what (specifically) removed?
First hand experience? Were you in the court yourself? Or did you read it in the media? Because if you read it in the media, then it isn't first hand experience.. especially if you read in in some conservative media, I can almost guarantee it will be a California Solar Panel article.


Everyone pays for that library. If you don't want to read a book, don't read it. Right wing conservative censorship is nothing different than the church wanting to decide who gets to read what.


Yes, isn't that interesting. Some of the most educated people have shut down the right wing extremists. Non-government colleges are not subject to free speech laws any more than facebook, twitter, or this website is.


It goes back to the same thing. If someone is concerned that others are having an influence on their children, then it is their own parental failure at issue. They'll never admit that however.


This one has always interested me.. While there are certainly psychological issues at play due to general human ignorance and cultural norms, what specifically has you concerned about mixing men and women in the same bathroom? The most common complaint I hear is that a man entering a woman's bathroom could commit a sexual crime of some sort (or some variation on that statement)


And that is strictly a failure of the parents, not the schools. Parents are not a "big part" of the issue, they ARE the issue, they are the only issue. Don't blame the schools for the failure of the parents. My 9 year old daughter reads 1500 pages a week in books, she doesn't have a cell phone, isn't allowed video games (yet), and is only allowed to access educational materials on the computer.
How many people do you know, how many people have you ever known, who read 1500 pages a week? My wife has to bring boxes and bags between her car and the library and my child picks out whatever she wants to read, no strings attached.

Of course, my 9 year old knows the first three lines of the periodic table from memory and can identify an element by counting electrons. She also plays chess with the neighbor's 15 year old and can hold her own. She builds estes rockets, has her own bb gun, and helps me gut and butcher hogs and deer. She picks up bugs and rocks and puts them under her microscope and pokes them with a stick, and part of her household chores is starting the wood stove and keeping it going.

It's not the schools, its the parents.


Private schools are not excelling but on paper. That's not to say none of them are, but most are religiously orientated and the students they produce are morons in science. Fairly good with history, literature, writing, and even math, but they lack in science. The problem with private schools is that their history, literature, and writing is all selective based on their ideology.

Any child taught a political or social ideology will always grow up with a handicap.


Tell me, back a few decades ago, no one was really complaining about the Mexican boarder.. why is that? Mexican's have been crossing the boarder illegally since we had a boarder, and yet it's only been in the last 15 years or so that anyone has made it an issue. Why? I know why it is, I'm wondering if you do.

Also, if you like cheap grocery store food, what do you think is going to happen to it when the Mexican workers are gone? You don't seriously think American's are Hgoing to pick that food do you?
Here's a few links, I don't keep tabs on all of this as there's too much to remember...this crap has exploded recently and it's on the news all the time. It's all over ..but if it's in Texas imagine what it's like in Cali and other super liberal states. First hand experience was watching the school board meetings when the mothers ,parents, started reading from the books and had their mics cut off and escorted out of the school. The local library is not porn hub..so no that crap does not belong there.

Private schools are not excelling but on paper. That's not to say none of them are, but most are religiously orientated and the students they produce are morons in science.

At least we know what a man and woman is. How's those boosters working out?

The rest of your arguments / questions makes me realize I'd never be able answer them satisfactory, we just see reality differently.





 
Here's a few links, I don't keep tabs on all of this as there's too much to remember...this crap has exploded recently and it's on the news all the time. It's all over ..but if it's in Texas imagine what it's like in Cali and other super liberal states. First hand experience was watching the school board meetings when the mothers ,parents, started reading from the books and had their mics cut off and escorted out of the school. The local library is not porn hub..so no that crap does not belong there.
Lets examine your position.
The mic was cut off because a book contained sexually explicit material that is not appropriate for reading out loud in a public venue. Personally, none of it would bother me, nor would it bother me if my child heard it.

Does that mean we should ban the book? Do you think maybe that a high school kid could just as easily access the material on the internet in high definition 60 frames per second complete with surround sound?

If you were talking about a grade school elementary library, I would tend to agree with your position, but all you're doing is telling teenagers they can't have something. How do you think that will work out?

Private schools are not excelling but on paper. That's not to say none of them are, but most are religiously orientated and the students they produce are morons in science.

At least we know what a man and woman is. How's those boosters working out?
What difference does it make between a man and a woman except to the individual? You didn't answer my question, what specifically are you concerned about with a man going into a woman's bathroom or the reverse?

"at least we know what a man and woman is" ?? Why is that relevant to my question?

Boosters? Huh?


The rest of your arguments / questions makes me realize I'd never be able answer them satisfactory, we just see reality differently.


Lets take a look at your first link. The person at the center of the story is Lake Travis ISD School Board candidate Kara Bell. Here's another link were she was arrested for being a f*king wack job. Her name is actually KARA ! As in KAREN! Oh man.. that's so funny it defies words..

ARRESTED WACK JOB

Oh man, this chick is psycho..


The star of this link is a wacko named Tara Petch, who owns a company called "Jesus is the reason". Another wack job.

You might want to read your links before posting them, this one sides with me and is about students being upset that other people are censoring what they are allowed to read.


I'm not going to go through every link and bash each wack job. What you are seeing are what society terms "activists".. these people are the examples of extremism. And if you give in to activists because some fly on the wall offends them, you begin to create a precedent where anyone who gets offended can have something changed.

Again, any parent who is scared or concerned their child might be reading something they don't like is a failure as a parent, and these parents are always religious.. they are full grown adults who actually believe magical invisible sky fairies are real.

You can expect that any activist, regardless of whether their activism is from religion, a tree hugger, environmentalists, civil or criminal justice, or even finance, is going to blow their examples and positions so far out of proportion as to border on being fraud.

But don't get me wrong, that's not to say that in all the school libraries, there isn't a book here or there that probably shouldn't be. What I'm saying is that you are seeing extremist activity, and in a world flooded with social media, extremism has been handed the biggest audience microphone that has ever existed.
 
Again, any parent who is scared or concerned their child might be reading something they don't like is a failure as a parent, and these parents are always religious.. they are full grown adults who actually believe magical invisible sky fairies are real.

And you think it less crazy that you originated by random chance from muck (how did that muck get there in the first place?). Not to mention such a notion totally violates basic laws of thermodynamics and entropy (things naturally wind down, break down, towarsa chaos, apart from outside input). But hey, minor details....

Not to mention we have yet to see one species ecer turn into something new. Adaptations within a species is still the same species. Ever seen a fish grow legs? Some amoeba turn into a fly?

Yet somehow others are crazy for believing someone actually designed everything... the sheer complexity and vastness of nature says that it is a crazy notion that it all came from a pile of gunk "magically" by itself over some billions of years (and again, where did that gunk come from?).

If it all is just some cosmic accident, then who is to say what is right and wrong? Where does such authority come from? And what the heck is the purpose of life if it is so meaningless?

Just sayin'
 
And you think it less crazy that you originated by random chance from muck (how did that muck get there in the first place?). Not to mention such a notion totally violates basic laws of thermodynamics and entropy (things naturally wind down, break down, towarsa chaos, apart from outside input). But hey, minor details....
Huh? Where did you get that little bit of ridiculously silly information? Did you're pastor give that bit of garbage?

Organic matter, as well as everything else needed to create life has been found in space. Every nucleotide your DNA is made of has been found in space.

Not to mention we have yet to see one species ecer turn into something new. Adaptations within a species is still the same species. Ever seen a fish grow legs? Some amoeba turn into a fly?
More pastor garbage? It takes millions of years for species to diverge, you've been here less than 15(?) years. And humans have been here with the ability to record such things for less than a few thousand.
How could you witness something that takes millions of years if you've only been here for such a short time?

Yet somehow others are crazy for believing someone actually designed everything... the sheer complexity and vastness of nature says that it is a crazy notion that it all came from a pile of gunk "magically" by itself over some billions of years (and again, where did that gunk come from?).
Two perspectives on that..
1) If your argument is that everything had to come from somewhere, then a magical invisible sky fairy had to come from somewhere as well, which means not so magical.
2) Matter can pop into existence from absolutely nothing. Yup, not a typo, you read that correct.
3) We can now create matter from nothing. Yup, once again, not a typo. Google is your friend.

If it all is just some cosmic accident, then who is to say what is right and wrong?
Who says it now?
Your statement implies, without you saying it, that your religion somehow provides a moral compass, and since (i'm guessing) you're in the USA and/or speaking clear English, I'm guessing you're a Christian? So on that note, if you view your bible as providing a moral compass for right vs wrong, then you're going to have to explain how you rationalize and justify your endorsement of the enslavement of other humans. (Read Leviticus because I'm guessing your pastor probably hides that part from you)

Where does such authority come from?
The authority comes from (in ascending order), the >individual, >community, >society, >civilization.
And what the heck is the purpose of life if it is so meaningless?

Just sayin'
Several perspectives:
1) Does your life have meaning to you? If it does, there's your answer.
2) You're implying (correct me if I'm wrong), that without a god creator, then life is meaningless? What makes it meaningful with a creator?
 
It's disingenuous to say that anybody who believes in creation believes in a "magical sky fairy". There's a difference in believing that life wasn't random, and believing every word in the Bible (or whatever text), a book written, and heavily edited, by man.

I think that most compelling argument for creation is the point of life, and the concept of an irreducibly complex machine, as it relates to basic cellular reproduction.

It's entirely possible that life was random, and just happened. Anybody who claims to "know" otherwise is full of crap. That being said, this is what I BELIEVE to be true.

Let's say you did in fact find all of the "pieces" you needed to make life, just floating around in our primordial Ocean, just waiting to be assembled. Let's just say they happen to come together to form a strand of DNA. The chances of this are about as good as taking a dead deer in a box, sterilizing it, shaking it up for a few billion years, and expecting the entire tree of life to come out. I guess it's possible, but talk about faith. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty confident that we still have not created LIFE from nothing. Maybe we will one day, I'd be very excited if that happened.

For the sake of argument, let's just say that did in fact happen, that somehow random pieces of molecule were able to chemically bind together in the perfect way to form a strand of DNA. Now what? How does a single strand of DNA go about turning into a single cell organism? There's a lot of missing pieces there, and that's the concept of an irreducibly complex machine comes in.

In order for a living organism to reproduce, it has to be complete to start with. You can't just have a half a nucleus and a third of a mitochondria start making cytoplasms and cell walls. To start with, I would argue there has to be an entire functioning system to reproduce into an other functioning system.

Michael Behe is the guy who coined the idea, and wrote a few books on it as well, he does a much better job explaining this than I do.

The deeper I get into this topic, the more I understand that nobody knows shit.


enjoy reading critiques and criticisms just as much as I enjoy reading theories that I already subscribe to, and would be happy to defend my position.
 
It's disingenuous to say that anybody who believes in creation believes in a "magical sky fairy". There's a difference in believing that life wasn't random, and believing every word in the Bible (or whatever text), a book written, and heavily edited, by man.
Not really. Logical analysis provides three choices, 1) Believe 2) Not Believe 3) Null
Option 1 is reached through forced indoctrination of young children. (that should be a warning sign for most people with common sense)
Option 2 is reached through rejection (the reasons for which are many with some good and some really silly)
Option 3 is the only logical path.

I think that most compelling argument for creation is the point of life,
What does that mean? What "point of life" ?

and the concept of an irreducibly complex machine, as it relates to basic cellular reproduction.
Some life forms have just over 525 genes. That isn't even more complex than the average person's capability to remember if they tried.
So while some life forms are extremely complex, complexity is not a requirement.

It's entirely possible that life was random, and just happened. Anybody who claims to "know" otherwise is full of crap. That being said, this is what I BELIEVE to be true.
Humans created god to answer questions. Humans are hardwired to seek answers to our questions, the problem is, in the absence of good answers, we tend to accept bad ones.

Let's say you did in fact find all of the "pieces" you needed to make life, just floating around in our primordial Ocean, just waiting to be assembled.
We have already done that..

Let's just say they happen to come together to form a strand of DNA. The chances of this are about as good as taking a dead deer in a box, sterilizing it, shaking it up for a few billion years, and expecting the entire tree of life to come out. I guess it's possible, but talk about faith. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty confident that we still have not created LIFE from nothing. Maybe we will one day, I'd be very excited if that happened.
Already done:

One of the things humans are very VERY good at is figuring out nature and copying it. And once we copy it and have a better understanding, we tend to modify things to make it work for us. Presto, you have lights at night, antibacterial medications, light beer, and internal combustion engines.

For the sake of argument, let's just say that did in fact happen, that somehow random pieces of molecule were able to chemically bind together in the perfect way to form a strand of DNA. Now what? How does a single strand of DNA go about turning into a single cell organism? There's a lot of missing pieces there, and that's the concept of an irreducibly complex machine comes in.
While humans and other macroscopic "animals" are complex, simple bacteria and viruses are not always in the same boat. Evolution is normally a very slow process, but it can happen right in front of your eyes under certain conditions. When scientists investigate antibacterial resistance, they can watch bacteria evolve to resist the drugs on a time scale that is measured in hours.
The larger the organism, the more complex it is, the more time it takes to change.

If you want to change the function of a steel angle bracket, you hit it with a hammer and maybe drill a hole.. takes 5 minutes. But if you want to change the function of a building, it takes far longer and far more effort.

In order for a living organism to reproduce, it has to be complete to start with. You can't just have a half a nucleus and a third of a mitochondria start making cytoplasms and cell walls. To start with, I would argue there has to be an entire functioning system to reproduce into an other functioning system.
See link above.

Michael Behe is the guy who coined the idea, and wrote a few books on it as well, he does a much better job explaining this than I do.

The deeper I get into this topic, the more I understand that nobody knows shit.


enjoy reading critiques and criticisms just as much as I enjoy reading theories that I already subscribe to, and would be happy to defend my position.
This is a game that has been played for hundreds of years. Religion makes a claim, puts on display something we can't yet do, and postulates that since it is impossible for humans to replicate, it must be god. A really bad argument, but most people have really poor analytical skills so it works.

Then of course, technology catches up, humans figure it out, and then religion moves on to the next thing we haven't yet done and the process repeats. Remember the "missing link" between primates and humans? You don't hear about that anymore as an argument do you? That's because we have all the fossils now, from full blown primate to full blown human. We even have fossils of intermediate branch species that didn't last long.

So the church no longer pursues that argument and their gullible followers are guided in a different direction. That's the power of childhood indoctrination.

Most people do not understand science or technology, which is kind of weird since their lives all fully depend on it.
 
Not really. Logical analysis provides three choices, 1) Believe 2) Not Believe 3) Null
Option 1 is reached through forced indoctrination of young children. (that should be a warning sign for most people with common sense)
Option 2 is reached through rejection (the reasons for which are many with some good and some really silly)
Option 3 is the only logical path.
When you say "believe" without context, that leaves a indiscriminate door open for whatever. Some people "believe" that if they blow a bunch of people up they go to heaven with dozens of virgins. Some people believe that some dead guy will come back thousands of years later to save their soul. Some people believe that the chances of life being randomly created are smaller than the chances of it having some sort of external help, from some "realm, or dimension" beyond our understanding. Some people believe that a bunch of random mud and molecules somehow it turned into every piece of life we see today.

I would agree that some of those beliefs might come from childhood indoctrination, but some of them are also rooted in scientific research.
What does that mean? What "point of life" ?
What I mean by that is the initial point that biological life started. The point where we went from an inanimate object, to a functioning organism.
Some life forms have just over 525 genes. That isn't even more complex than the average person's capability to remember if they tried.
So while some life forms are extremely complex, complexity is not a requirement.
But a base level of complexity is, in order for reproduction to happen.
Humans created god to answer questions. Humans are hardwired to seek answers to our questions, the problem is, in the absence of good answers, we tend to accept bad ones.
I don't disagree with that statement.
We have already done that..


Already done:
"Scientists at JCVI constructed the first cell with a synthetic genome in 2010. They didn’t build that cell completely from scratch. Instead, they started with cells from a very simple type of bacteria called a mycoplasma. They destroyed the DNA in those cells and replaced it with DNA that was designed on a computer and synthesized in a lab."

From your link.

No, they didn't "make" life. They modified something that already existed. On top of that, that cell was created by intelligent design, under tightly controlled conditions.
One of the things humans are very VERY good at is figuring out nature and copying it. And once we copy it and have a better understanding, we tend to modify things to make it work for us. Presto, you have lights at night, antibacterial medications, light beer, and internal combustion engines.


While humans and other macroscopic "animals" are complex, simple bacteria and viruses are not always in the same boat. Evolution is normally a very slow process, but it can happen right in front of your eyes under certain conditions. When scientists investigate antibacterial resistance, they can watch bacteria evolve to resist the drugs on a time scale that is measured in hours.
The larger the organism, the more complex it is, the more time it takes to change.

If you want to change the function of a steel angle bracket, you hit it with a hammer and maybe drill a hole.. takes 5 minutes. But if you want to change the function of a building, it takes far longer and far more effort.


See link above.


This is a game that has been played for hundreds of years. Religion makes a claim, puts on display something we can't yet do, and postulates that since it is impossible for humans to replicate, it must be god. A really bad argument, but most people have really poor analytical skills so it works.
That is absolutely historically accurate. People make all kinds of ridiculous claims about what they understand "God" to be, and religion has been used to manipulate millions of people over the years.
Then of course, technology catches up, humans figure it out, and then religion moves on to the next thing we haven't yet done and the process repeats. Remember the "missing link" between primates and humans? You don't hear about that anymore as an argument do you? That's because we have all the fossils now, from full blown primate to full blown human. We even have fossils of intermediate branch species that didn't last long.

So the church no longer pursues that argument and their gullible followers are guided in a different direction. That's the power of childhood indoctrination.
Ironically enough, I broke from the church as a young adult because I didn't believe in it. As I learned more about the topic of creation, I started to realize that it's much more scientifically viable than people make it out to be. I guess that makes me a special kind of idiot then, huh? ?

I don't personally have a problem with the existence of creation, and evolution. I think something had a helping hand in the initial start, but I have no reason to think that life couldn't have evolved more "naturally" from there. You see real evidence of adaption (or evolution, depending on how you want to define it) everyday, that's undeniable.

Again, I want to make it clear that I don't completely believe in the Bible. I'm not referring to any sort of religious creation story.
Most people do not understand science or technology, which is kind of weird since their lives all fully depend on it.
I agree.
 
When you say "believe" without context, that leaves a indiscriminate door open for whatever. Some people "believe" that if they blow a bunch of people up they go to heaven with dozens of virgins. Some people believe that some dead guy will come back thousands of years later to save their soul. Some people believe that the chances of life being randomly created are smaller than the chances of it having some sort of external help, from some "realm, or dimension" beyond our understanding. Some people believe that a bunch of random mud and molecules somehow it turned into every piece of life we see today.

I would agree that some of those beliefs might come from childhood indoctrination, but some of them are also rooted in scientific research.
Beliefs are either rational or irrational. Irrational beliefs are based on wishful thinking, feelings, hope, desperation, myths, etc. Rational beliefs are based on evidence, observation, statistical analysis, historical precedent, etc.

All religious beliefs are irrational. (correct or wrong will never be answered)
All scientific beliefs are rational. (being correct or wrong is usually eventually answered)

One can have irrational beliefs about anything, but rational ones require qualifications, quality checks, etc.

What I mean by that is the initial point that biological life started. The point where we went from an inanimate object, to a functioning organism.
Where do you draw the line? A virus is a functioning organism, but it's not alive. Few things are so black and white. How much of a leap between a virus and something that makes its own way?
 
Beliefs are either rational or irrational. Irrational beliefs are based on wishful thinking, feelings, hope, desperation, myths, etc. Rational beliefs are based on evidence, observation, statistical analysis, historical precedent, etc.

All religious beliefs are irrational. (correct or wrong will never be answered)
All scientific beliefs are rational. (being correct or wrong is usually eventually answered)
I would also like to point out that I find there to be a big difference between the topic of creation, and religion. While they can definitely be intertwined, they are also separate in a lot of ways. I think it could be described as "science beyond our understanding". I'm definitely not saying it's all true, or "science" I just think it's one way to look at it.
One can have irrational beliefs about anything, but rational ones require qualifications, quality checks, etc.
I would actually agree that a lot of "religious" beliefs can be irrational. But just because something is irrational doesn't make it, in and of itself, wrong.
Where do you draw the line? A virus is a functioning organism, but it's not alive. Few things are so black and white. How much of a leap between a virus and something that makes its own way?
I see what you're saying. My personal definition of life would be an organism that's able to sustain itself. A virus, as far as I know, needs some kind of host to function, there's probably exceptions somewhere in nature, but even viruses are relatively complicated. Also, at some point the virus would have to make a jump to be a "true" living organism.
 
I would also like to point out that I find there to be a big difference between the topic of creation, and religion. While they can definitely be intertwined, they are also separate in a lot of ways. I think it could be described as "science beyond our understanding". I'm definitely not saying it's all true, or "science" I just think it's one way to look at it.

I would actually agree that a lot of "religious" beliefs can be irrational. But just because something is irrational doesn't make it, in and of itself, wrong.

I see what you're saying. My personal definition of life would be an organism that's able to sustain itself. A virus, as far as I know, needs some kind of host to function, there's probably exceptions somewhere in nature, but even viruses are relatively complicated. Also, at some point the virus would have to make a jump to be a "true" living organism.
"sustain itself" is a tricky definition. The only organisms that I'm aware of that can sustain themselves are plants. They suck up nutrients from the soil and convert co2 and sunlight into energy.

The rest of us need to feed off something else that is living in order to sustain ourselves.
 
"sustain itself" is a tricky definition. The only organisms that I'm aware of that can sustain themselves are plants. They suck up nutrients from the soil and convert co2 and sunlight into energy.

The rest of us need to feed off something else that is living in order to sustain ourselves.

Oh, just remembered, there's a type of bacteria deep in the ground that feeds off sulfur(?) to sustain itself.
 
"sustain itself" is a tricky definition.
You're right. I should have said able to reproduce, and gather its own energy. The things that would take to "sustain" the species into another generation, is I guess closer to what I'm trying to say.
The only organisms that I'm aware of that can sustain themselves are plants. They suck up nutrients from the soil and convert co2 and sunlight into energy.

The rest of us need to feed off something else that is living in order to sustain ourselves.
That does raise the question what the first organism fed off of. Even if they were sulfer, or other weird compound eating, why would they have suddenly switched to what would basically be cannibalism of its own species?
 
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