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Victron Multiplus II in passthru without batteries

tonyg

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Apr 5, 2022
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Hi there,

On short, I've got a Multiplus II, SmartSolar chargers, all working in simphony with 16s Eve lf280k with JK BMS.
I'd like to add another battery bank and thus would need to disconnect the current bank. I've got a system switch that I can turn off.
The question is, can I turn off so that the battery is isolated while the Multiplus is in passthru from the grid? Is this safe?

Thank you kindly.
 
If you're going to do this, I would set the Multiplus to "Invert Only" mode so it isn't trying to charge the battery bank when you disconnect the DC side.

I recall posts where there was an attempt to charge the capacitors by connecting to shore/grid power before the batteries were connected. But don't quote me on that.
 
If you're going to do this, I would set the Multiplus to "Invert Only" mode so it isn't trying to charge the battery bank when you disconnect the DC side.

I recall posts where there was an attempt to charge the capacitors by connecting to shore/grid power before the batteries were connected. But don't quote me on that.
Invert only would try to draw energy from the batteries, so that would very probably disconnect the power when the batteries are disconnected.

If the inverter is on pasthru mode, that means grid enabled, but charge disabled.
 
Invert only would try to draw energy from the batteries, so that would very probably disconnect the power when the batteries are disconnected.

If the inverter is on pasthru mode, that means grid enabled, but charge disabled.

My Multiplus (not II) doesn't have a declared "pass through" mode. It has to be ON, which is equivalent to pass through. I have On, Off and Charger Only. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure there is an "Invert Only" setting on the inverter. As I recall I have four "switch" settings in my Cerbo GX/Tough 50, so I was thinking one of those was invert only. Either way, you would want to minimize the battery charging before you disconnected the batteries.

From my manual:
When switched to "on", the product is fully functional. The inverter will come into operation and the LED "inverter on" will light up. An AC voltage connected to the "AC in" terminal will be switched through to the "AC out" terminal, if within specifications. The inverter will switch off, the "mains on" LED will light up and the charger commences charging. The "bulk", "absorption" or "float" LEDs will light up, depending on the charger mode.
 
Most newer hybrid inverters have a power supply from AC input to run the microcontroller and pass-through relay coil without battery connected.

The inverter itself will shut down when there is no battery connected.

If there is an automatic inverter activation when battery applied make sure it is set to off so it does not try to power up inverter when connecting battery. In my opinion you should never allow an inverter to automatically jump into active mode on its own and should have a manual user interface to activate inverter after it has been shut down for any reason.
 
My Multiplus (not II) doesn't have a declared "pass through" mode. It has to be ON, which is equivalent to pass through. I have On, Off and Charger Only. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure there is an "Invert Only" setting on the inverter. As I recall I have four "switch" settings in my Cerbo GX/Tough 50, so I was thinking one of those was invert only. Either way, you would want to minimize the battery charging before you disconnected the batteries.

I think you might be able to disable charging through the VictronConnect app/program, though I haven't tried it myself.
 
I think you might be able to disable charging through the VictronConnect app/program, though I haven't tried it myself.

I don't have the Bluetooth module connected to my Multiplus, so I have no experience with what the Victron Connect app can do. I do use the Victron Connect application on my Windows laptop for setting the more detailed parameters using the MK3 dongle.
 
I don't have the Bluetooth module connected to my Multiplus, so I have no experience with what the Victron Connect app can do. I do use the Victron Connect application on my Windows laptop for setting the more detailed parameters using the MK3 dongle.

Yeah, I don't have the bluetooth module either, but I've used the MK3 dongle through both my phone (USB A to C "OTG" adapter required) and computer with the VictronConnect software for each.
 
Yeah, I don't have the bluetooth module either, but I've used the MK3 dongle through both my phone (USB A to C "OTG" adapter required) and computer with the VictronConnect software for each.
Same here, I've done this via the Windows app.
 
I think you might be able to disable charging through the VictronConnect app/program, though I haven't tried it myself.
correct, according to the VictronConnect app demo library. even without a real device it is possible to check the settings pages from the "demo library"

1669487848408.jpeg

1669487862259.jpeg

1669487908345.jpeg

1669487974965.jpeg

1669488003281.jpeg

hope this helps ?
 
Most newer hybrid inverters have a power supply from AC input to run the microcontroller and pass-through relay coil without battery connected.
What's a hybrid inverter? Are you trying to say the MultiPlus II is a hybrid inverter?

And this thread overall, on what basis did you make the decision that it's a good idea to remove the batteries? Doesn't seem consistent with product design or installation procedures to me, try not to die.

Whether you can change a charger setting or not is probably 1 of 50 settings you need to pay attention to if this is even possible, the MultiPlusII can also be configured to send the power surges to the battery with a dynamic current limiter. That's just one example where the inverter would suddenly be asked to pull power from the batteries, even though you disabled a charger or something.
 
If you're going to do this, I would set the Multiplus to "Invert Only" mode so it isn't trying to charge the battery bank when you disconnect the DC side.

I recall posts where there was an attempt to charge the capacitors by connecting to shore/grid power before the batteries were connected. But don't quote me on that.
It seems like you're giving out really bad advice.
 
It seems like you're giving out really bad advice.

If you had read a few posts down, you would have seen that I revised what I posted. The idea that I was trying to get across is that you don't want the Multiplus to be charging the batteries when you disconnect the batteries.

For what it's worth, here are the Multiplus switch options when working with the Cerbo GX/Touch 50.
1669493472521.png
 
If you had read a few posts down, you would have seen that I revised what I posted. The idea that I was trying to get across is that you don't want the Multiplus to be charging the batteries when you disconnect the batteries.

For what it's worth, here are the Multiplus switch options when working with the Cerbo GX/Touch 50.
View attachment 121919
Seems like you're still trying to convey ideas that aren't consistent with the product installation instructions, when I read this... You connect the batteries before you turn it on, not the other way. My current understanding is that this isn't an inverter that is normally operated without batteries, and I don't understand the motivation to attempt this.

As I covered in another post, there are other inverter settings that would make it start using the batteries even when operating in "on" with AC passed through.

Just because you found a switch doesn't mean you're supposed to be using it. I personally would use the Off setting and turn the AC output off entirely. If somebody has more formal training on this subject, please correct me, I have only reviewed a small portion of Victron's training probably.

If this is a regular occurrence on a critical system, you need to bring an automatic transfer switch in AFTER the inverter (turn a generator on, turn the inverter off after loads switch), or move the critical loads to a pure sine wave UPS then just turn the inverter off.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't add batteries to my own system while generating power, as long as it meant I didn't have to shutoff the other batteries to do it, the inverter always has battery power in this scenario.

This is another reason that busbars are better than stacking lugs. And I've done this kinda thing with stacked lugs and careful lug manuevering, with lead acid batteries to reduce disconnections to sub-seconds--but now that I'm using lithium iron phosphate I have less desire to test certain limits.
 
All the guy is trying to do is to change his battery setup without losing his AC output pass-through from grid power when he disconnects the battery.
 
All the guy is trying to do is to change his battery setup without losing his AC output pass-through from grid power when he disconnects the battery.
If that's a normal thing to do, I would like to learn more. I didn't know that was a normal thing to do. I don't have a normally on grid and maybe I have some huge blind spots!

So how long can you leave the batteries disconnected? Months, as long as it doesn't try to use the batteries?
 
You can leave it without battery for as long as you want. Just need to have grid power to pass-though.

I would advise having the ability to bypass AC input to AC output with breakers/transfer switch. If inverter craps out and has to be removed for service, you cannot always count on having its internal pass-through relay present to get power to a subpanel.

I learned that lesson when I was away on a business trip and my wife called to say the inverter was running on battery power. Turns out a lightning strike on power lines blew out the primary side of small AC-1 voltage sense transformer so inverter interpreted that as no AC input present.
 
The Victron Multiplus (or the Quattro?) can function as a grid-tie inverter. It takes some low level manipulation (my interpretation) of the configuration to do that, which is well beyond my comfort zone. But I've seen the settings screen posted for that, so it's not some rumor.
 
The Victron Multiplus (or the Quattro?) can function as a grid-tie inverter. It takes some low level manipulation (my interpretation) of the configuration to do that, which is well beyond my comfort zone. But I've seen the settings screen posted for that, so it's not some rumor.
Only with batteries. All present LF inverters only convert battery power node to AC output to push to grid or loads. LF AIO inverters like Growatt 6k/12k inject PV power directly in parallel with battery terminals on inverter.

The normal HF AIO inverters inject PV power to their HV DC node so the PWM sinewave synthesis output stage can take HV DC and produce AC to push to grid and supply AC loads, even without a battery connected. In this mode of operation, they are just like a regular GT battery-less inverter.

My idea hybrid AIO inverter would be a low frequency inverter with a parallel internal GT inverter to just AC coupling to hybrid inverter AC output. With direct internal hard wire control it can directly manage AC coupled internal GT inverter to solve all the short comings of managing output power of a separate external AC coupled GT inverter feeding into AC output of a low frequency battery powered hybrid inverter.

Unfortunately, no one makes one like this at present.
 

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