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My Dometic RV fridge is sucking my batteries dry and I can't determine why?!

So far it seems this RV has a 120/240VAC all in one, a legacy 120VAC inverter charger(which is currently in inverter mode) and a legacy ac2dc converter.
The inverter charger is also set to a charge profile intended for LFP batteries.
In opinion the float voltage is way too high for LFP batteries though.
OP I urge you to revisit the integration.
Yep, that's what I"m trying to uncover here from people who have more experience than I about what ought to be installed/removed/upgraded to make this a stand alone system that will allow me to operate my camper appliances efficiently. We've always planned to "follow the weather" but realize that means we can't always have the windows open and will have to run an a/c unit occasionally. However, keeping the fridge running is a must have, so I'm solving that riddle first, and if adjusting/tweaking the system in the process to allow better efficiency, then I'm all in.

John, thanks for your input and insights. I'm really pleased to see that almost all of the posts to this thread have been constructive and not degrading. I've got some more pics for you (and everyone else) coming soon. Any further insights are appreciated!
 
John, thanks for your input and insights. I'm really pleased to see that almost all of the posts to this thread have been constructive and not degrading. I've got some more pics for you (and everyone else) coming soon. Any further insights are appreciated!

Hmph... well that doesn't sound like me. I must be off my game. :p

Did the installer work up a wiring diagram that includes the legacy hardware, or one in which you could integrate them?
 
My two cents; I have an absorption refrigerator in my trailer. When I'm plugged into shore power, I'm using the 120VAC heater element and when I unplug it switches to propane. I believe in your case, solar is feeding the 48V system, the inverter is making 120VAC and your trailed is "plugged" into it. Your 12VDC is running like it did before the conversion (your old converter charges the battery and runs the lights). If you can live with the converter efficiency, you won't need the DC2DC. You need 12VDC for lights, fans, furnace. I'd turn off the refrigerator breaker and run it off propane. What is heating your water, I'd use propane for that as well.
Well, I thought of that option also, but I'm not sure I want to be subjected to empty propane bottles when trying to keep my food cold. Theoretically, yes, I can find a location to refill bottles, but why, then, did I spend the money to install this rather expensive solar system?! If I can, I'd like to make this system as efficient as possible. If it works as billed to me, then all will be fine. If it's not as robust as I was told, then the installer and I can discuss making it right.
 
Hmph... well that doesn't sound like me. I must be off my game. :p

Did the installer work up a wiring diagram that includes the legacy hardware, or one in which you could integrate them?
Ha! That's my kind of sense of humor, however, since I'm trying to fix my rather expensive solar system, I decided to keep it bottled up for the time being.

No, no diagram. Without unpacking my basement, removing a wall (moveable wall) and getting behind the breaker panel, I can't see what wires run to where from what... I'm hoping that someone on this thread might have the knowledge to say, "Oh, yeah....I've seen this before, you need to install this, rewire that and get a blahbetyblah. Happy travels!"

I'll unpack everything if I need to, but currently I'm taking notes, recording suggestions and answering questions.

Thanks, by the way!
 
OP what type of lead acid batteries do you have?
I mean flooded, gel, AGM or something else?
Here are some more pics for more clarity (I hope)
 

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Well, we've tested that before (this has been a months long process) and we determined that its only pulling 30 - 50?! But, even if it IS pulling 100, should the fridge be continuously pulling 350 - 450 all day long??
Yes. My propane fridge runs 320 watts when on. On a cold day high 70 low 40, duty cycle about 40%, costs 3 kwh at least per day.
 
Is there another inverter in there? I was going off John's statements.

What I see:

You have an on-board shore power system. where your inverter provides AC power to the converter, which feeds the 12V system with 13.6V and keeps the interstate battery at float.

The EG4 is the batteries. The inverter is not an EG4 product. It looks like a Sigineer unit. This is it's bigger 12kW brother:

1670615988549.png



DO YOU STILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO PLUG INTO 50A SHORE POWER AND GET THE FULL 50A PER LEG?

I suspect your inverter is also feeding the L2 leg of the AC panel, so you have 120V on each leg, but 0V between them, where you would normally have 240V between them on 50A shore.
 
Well, I thought of that option also, but I'm not sure I want to be subjected to empty propane bottles when trying to keep my food cold. Theoretically, yes, I can find a location to refill bottles, but why, then, did I spend the money to install this rather expensive solar system?! If I can, I'd like to make this system as efficient as possible. If it works as billed to me, then all will be fine. If it's not as robust as I was told, then the installer and I can discuss making it right.

FWIW, a 30# propane bottle lasts 3-4 weeks if running the fridge exclusively, maybe as little as 2 since you have a double.
 
Petenebraska. Look at the Samlex 4248sp all in one. Split phase so you can run both legs at the same time. Allows for full pass through of shore power and buily like a tank.
 
No. One leg was disconnected, so now I'm restricted to whatever amperage is available via one leg.

Okay. That's a bit pitfall when folks install and inverter in 50A rigs. You have to allow for the potential of 30A 120V input or 50A 120/240V input. Your rig has been modified to a 50A/120V rig.

Note that you are limited to 50A total on both legs. Your wiring should handle it, but if you try to use 50A on both legs, your Neutral line would be carrying 100A. No bueno.

Since the inverter is 6K, it's helpful to just figure on 6K whether on shore or off-grid.

So unless I'm missing something, the only issues are that your installer did not generate a capable design and knows little about RV fridges, your system is under-designed for powering an absorption fridge on AC, and until you replace it with a comparable residential fridge, which will consume about 20% of your battery capacity daily (allowing for 2kWh), you're going to run it on propane at least outside of daylight hours.

If the above is true, I wouldn't make any additional alterations to the rig unless you use a lot of DC loads, and the 75% efficiency is too much to tolerate. I wouldn't consider replacing the inverter AT ALL because that would create the aforementioned issue with different shore power. If 6kW is enough for you, stick with it.

FWIW, I have a programmable wifi plug on our fridge. I can turn it on and off remotely or by timer. Before the big battery was installed, I would run it for about 8-12 hours during the day and shut it off at sundown with the propane off. This kept it cool enough for nothing to spoil since it wasn't being opened. Since you're living in it, falling back to propane is the better choice.
 
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Petenebraska. Look at the Samlex 4248sp all in one. Split phase so you can run both legs at the same time. Allows for full pass through of shore power and buily like a tank.
Those do look like a tank!!! But, if I were to purchase one, then it looks as though I'd have to buy an MPPT as well?? The one I have already has one integrated. It would have been nice to pass 240v on through though...
 

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Okay. That's a bit pitfall when folks install and inverter in 50A rigs. You have to allow for the potential of 30A 120V input or 50A 120/240V input. Your rig has been modified to a 50A/120V rig.

Note that you are limited to 50A total on both legs. Your wiring should handle it, but if you try to use 50A on both legs, your Neutral line would be carrying 100A. No bueno.

Since the inverter is 6K, it's helpful to just figure on 6K whether on shore or off-grid.

So unless I'm missing something, the only issues are that your installer is a goober and knows nothing about RV fridges, your system is under-designed for powering an absorption fridge on AC, and until you replace it with a comparable residential fridge, which will consume about 20% of your battery capacity daily (allowing for 2kWh), you're going to run it on propane at least outside of daylight hours.

If the above is true, I wouldn't make any additional alterations to the rig unless you use a lot of DC loads, and the 75% efficiency is too much to tolerate. I wouldn't consider replacing the inverter AT ALL because that would create the aforementioned issue with different shore power. If 6kW is enough for you, stick with it.

FWIW, I have a programmable wifi plug on our fridge. I can turn it on and off remotely or by timer. Before the big battery was installed, I would run it for about 8-12 hours during the day and shut it off at sundown with the propane off. This kept it cool enough for nothing to spoil since it wasn't being opened. Since you're living in it, falling back to propane is the better choice.
Right. It sounded like a good idea, since it was supposed to just be "backup" to the solar panels.

I'll have to get in behind the panel to see for sure, but I don't think(fingers crossed) it was installed that way. Besides, we don't run 2 a/c's at a time, or 2 big draws at the same time. We're both very conscientious about limits..

yeah, and we thought 6K was going to be a-plenty!!!

I'm going to try to stay away from running on propane, and look toward replacing the fridge. Without labelling my installer (like I said, he's really a great person and willing to work with me) he may have made assumptions about an absorption fridge requirement. He and I will revisit the setup and his calculations.

If the installer is still willing to build and send me a dc2dc converter, I think I'll let him and remove the 12v battery/12v converter. I'd rather have the efficiency until I think about buying another 48v battery.
 
Supplement to my last post...

Couple things I didn't want to get missed in an edit:

On 30A shore power, you may overload shore very easily. When on shore power, the inverter passes through the AC to loads AND uses it to charge the batteries. Very easy to exceed 30A between loads and charging. It's also possible to do it on 50A shore.

That particular unit is a bit of a turd for LFP batteries. They have a really goofy absorption charge time algorithm that can result in several hours of absorption charging on LFP. HOWEVER, since this has an LFP setting for 13.8V (*4), that's most a non-issue in terms of being healthy for the batteries. Where it will suck is if you're charging with generator. This will notably extend your charge time consuming more fuel. If you ever find yourself needing to charge by generator, set to sealed lead acid until the batteries report 57.6V, turn off the generator and then switch back to Lithium.

Those do look like a tank!!! But, if I were to purchase one, then it looks as though I'd have to buy an MPPT as well?? The one I have already has one integrated. It would have been nice to pass 240v on through though...

Yep.

Also, there's a dirty little secret with your inverter...

It consumes about 80-100W ALL THE DAMN TIME, NO MATTER WHAT, UNLESS YOU TURN OFF THE INVERTER. It needs power to energize the circuits to make AC power available.

That's 2160Wh/day or about 40% of ONE of your batteries (20% of total capacity). I doubt he factored this in when he designed your system. I recommend you refer him to this page, so that he may educate himself and improve his services.

This is very common with the cheap Chinese AiO (all in one) units. Higher quality (expensive) units use notably less. My 2X inverters totaling 10kW use less than 60W combined.

Lastly, your 1800W of solar is the ultimate limiter on your DAILY consumption. If you use more than the PV generates, you will eventually deplete your batteries.

I'll have to get in behind the panel to see for sure, but I don't think(fingers crossed) it was installed that way. Besides, we don't run 2 a/c's at a time, or 2 big draws at the same time. We're both very conscientious about limits..

yeah, and we thought 6K was going to be a-plenty!!!

If you are conscientious, it probably is. We are running a 37' Keystone Montana Big SKy on a single 5000W inverter feeding both legs with 120V. My two inverters in split phase eventually go to a 50A to 2X30A splitter that feeds one inverter to one trailer.

I'm going to try to stay away from running on propane, and look toward replacing the fridge.

I'm saying temporarily. Your fridge can easily completely tap your batteries in 24 hours, especially if you keep the interior comfortable.

Without labelling my installer (like I said, he's really a great person and willing to work with me) he may have made assumptions about an absorption fridge requirement. He and I will revisit the setup and his calculations.

I hope he takes well meant criticism constructively.

If the installer is still willing to build and send me a dc2dc converter, I think I'll let him and remove the 12v battery/12v converter. I'd rather have the efficiency until I think about buying another 48v battery.

I would be VERY hesitant to do this. I do not trust that it will be successful UNLESS you have ZERO significant surge loads. Slide motors, generator starters, or hydraulic pumps can have a notable surge (50-80A+), which can overwhelm a DC-DC converter and shut it down. Another + of leaving the 12V battery in place, is it serves as a buffer between the high surge item and the source.

For a full timer rig with the potential need for A/C, your system is barely capable. I suspect you will be looking to add at least 2X more batteries and a bunch of portable panels for a deployable array to add at least another 1kW PV when summer comes around like this guy, but more:

1670620330972.png
@chrisski , how many hours/day of A/C use can you do with your setup?

I'm not trying to be insulting. I'm being direct.
 
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In the process of finishing up my fridge install. I had the Dometic 1350 4 door. It was so inefficient. On AC power it still used about 3A of battery.
It also ran about 400w most of the time.

I switched to a Frigidaire 13.9 cu and wow. What a difference. I used a watt meter and it used .61 Kwh in 24 hours. When using inverter it used .84 Kwh again in a full day.

It is only 2 cu more then my old one but 100 lbs lighter also. Cools down extremely fast.

I just added 2" to my shelf to raise it up. I still need to trim it out.


20221209_153651.jpg
 
Supplement to my last post...

Couple things I didn't want to get missed in an edit:

On 30A shore power, you may overload shore very easily. When on shore power, the inverter passes through the AC to loads AND uses it to charge the batteries. Very easy to exceed 30A between loads and charging. It's also possible to do it on 50A shore.

That particular unit is a bit of a turd for LFP batteries. They have a really goofy absorption charge time algorithm that can result in several hours of absorption charging on LFP. HOWEVER, since this has an LFP setting for 13.8V (*4), that's most a non-issue in terms of being healthy for the batteries. Where it will suck is if you're charging with generator. This will notably extend your charge time consuming more fuel. If you ever find yourself needing to charge by generator, set to sealed lead acid until the batteries report 57.6V, turn off the generator and then switch back to Lithium.



Yep.

Also, there's a dirty little secret with your inverter...

It consumes about 80-100W ALL THE DAMN TIME, NO MATTER WHAT, UNLESS YOU TURN OFF THE INVERTER. It needs power to energize the circuits to make AC power available.

That's 2160Wh/day or about 40% of ONE of your batteries (20% of total capacity). I doubt "goober" factored this in when he designed your system. I recommend you refer him to this page, so that he may educate himself and improve his services.

This is very common with the cheap Chinese AiO (all in one) units. Higher quality (expensive) units use notably less. My 2X inverters totaling 10kW use less than 60W combined.

Lastly, your 1800W of solar is the ultimate limiter on your DAILY consumption. If you use more than the PV generates, you will eventually deplete your batteries.



If you are conscientious, it probably is. We are running a 37' Keystone Montana Big SKy on a single 5000W inverter feeding both legs with 120V. My two inverters in split phase eventually go to a 50A to 2X30A splitter that feeds one inverter to one trailer.



I'm saying temporarily. Your fridge can easily completely tap your batteries in 24 hours, especially if you keep the interior comfortable.



I totally appreciate the good intentions of people and prefer to see them in a positive light, giving the benefit of the doubt, etc.; however, bottom line, is some jackass in AZ (me) knows more than he does and doesn't try to offer this kind of service as a paid professional.

I'm calling him "goober." He has a LOT to learn and sold you promises while failing to deliver results.



Given the displayed competency, I would be VERY hesitant to do this. I do not trust that he can successfully do so UNLESS you have ZERO significant surge loads. Slide motors, generator starters, or hydraulic pumps can have a notable surge (50-80A+), which can overwhelm a DC-DC converter and shut it down. Another + of leaving the 12V battery in place, is it serves as a buffer between the high surge item and the source.

Bottom line is that this person likely charged you several thousand dollars and failed to deliver a working system even while having all the information at his fingertips.

For a full timer rig with the potential need for A/C, your system is barely capable. I suspect you will be looking to add at least 2X more batteries and a bunch of portable panels for a deployable array to add at least another 1kW PV when summer comes around.

I'm not trying to be insulting. I'm being direct.
I appreciate directness and your candid comments. My initial response is that I want to send him this page. However, I certainly don't want to burn any bridges and hopefully, I can relay some of this information to him so that we can negotiate a favorable outcome for both of us.

Thank you for your insights and comments.

If anyone else has anything to add, I'm certainly interested to hear.

One question:
I was under the impression that dc2dc converters didn't require surge protectors to operate slides, jacks and the like if appropriate wire size was used. Is there anyway to insure that a dc2dc converter doesn't shut down by installing breakers or simply buying a quality converter?
 
In the process of finishing up my fridge install. I had the Dometic 1350 4 door. It was so inefficient. On AC power it still used about 3A of battery.
It also ran about 400w most of the time.

I switched to a Frigidaire 13.9 cu and wow. What a difference. I used a watt meter and it used .61 Kwh in 24 hours. When using inverter it used .84 Kwh again in a full day.

It is only 2 cu more then my old one but 100 lbs lighter also. Cools down extremely fast.

I just added 2" to my shelf to raise it up. I still need to trim it out.
Shoot! That looks great! Well done.

I've been looking. I think I may be getting us an early X-mas present!

Thanks for the info!
 
We see a lot of professional installs on this forum.
Yours is not great but I've seen much worse.

Agree. Workmanship looks fine (I don't cast those stones unless it's complete shit!).

IMHO, problem was with the PLAN:

Get a 34' 50A rig with dual A/C and an absorption fridge
Provide a 1.8kW PV, 6kW high consumption AiO and 10kWh of battery while saying:

Exceptionally robust system and would accommodate our lifestyle of travelling and following the weather (not running the A/C units "all the time".)

I disagree. The system is not at all robust, might be able to run the A/C for about 5 hours per day in great sun with little else used, and can't power the fridge.
 
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I appreciate directness and your candid comments. My initial response is that I want to send him this page. However, I certainly don't want to burn any bridges and hopefully, I can relay some of this information to him so that we can negotiate a favorable outcome for both of us.

Cleansing activated... :p

Thank you for your insights and comments.

If anyone else has anything to add, I'm certainly interested to hear.

One question:
I was under the impression that dc2dc converters didn't require surge protectors to operate slides, jacks and the like if appropriate wire size was used. Is there anyway to insure that a dc2dc converter doesn't shut down by installing breakers or simply buying a quality converter?

It's not about surge protection. Wire size certainly matters to prevent excessive voltage drop and resulting current increase, but it's about DC powered 12V items that draw a big SURGE of juice when they start. The DC-DC MUST be able to handle this full current, or it will overload.

Fuses on DC items are not good indicators of the needed current. Fuses are sized for the run current + safety factor. Fuses can handle the brief surge without a problem. Surges for electric motors are commonly 5X their run currents.

"quality converter" may mean buying an expensive high amp converter to handle the surge. High current converters are not particularly efficient when operating at low current. You might find that a "90% efficient" converter really can be that efficient, BUT it might only be 75-80% at the lower continuous currents you actually use.
 

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