Curious about the chain or hookup of a system.

I found my 100watt system setup but was curious about where said device goes on the chain of the setup.

So far I know this much:
Solar panel > regulator > battery > splitter or invertor if wanted.

This is where In get lost.
With my limited knowledge and an educated guess, it would go from the battery out to the device you want to power.

Also what exactly is the load side on the regulator for?
Because if you ran from the load load side to the device, it would be pointless to have a battery I'd think.

Maybe I'm totally wrong on the setup, so if someone could do a short hookup chain or even better.....a drawing of how it should go in the line ie: where each item should go in the chain I'd be grateful.

I'm going to be hooking this up in another week from now, so just want to make sure I get it all hooked up correctly.

Almost forgot, I will be running a 10watt maximum output tv only, nothing else, so I won't be hooking an invertor up to the system.
It's basically going to have solar panels, a regulator, a battery and a 7" 10watt 1.12A DC tv in the chain.

By regulator do you mean a Solar Charge Controller?
The load terminals on a SCC are usually to run a light and would only have power when the sun is shining where as a battery outputs when there is no solar input.
A solar set up to only watch some crap TV? Lol
If you gave brand names with specs and links you would get a better answer about your "device"
I am confused by your vaugeness.

Ignore the load out. If you're in a situation like I am I use load out to another controller to charge my starter battery but that's on a controller with a programmable load out and an advanced subject so for now ignore the the load out.

So it goes kinda like you stated: Solar panel > regulator > battery =12v (or whatever voltage your bank is). Then if your tv is 120v hook an inverter to the batteries plug tv to the inverter. If your tv is 12v with a cig plug simply wire a female cig port (fused) to the batteries and plug in there.

Most SCC or regulator as you call it need a battery to turn on and operate. Also the load portion of the SCC are usually pretty weak.

Alpha-y2k said:

I found my 100watt system setup but was curious about where said device goes on the chain of the setup.

So far I know this much:
Solar panel > regulator > battery > splitter or invertor if wanted.

This is where In get lost.
With my limited knowledge and an educated guess, it would go from the battery out to the device you want to power.

Also what exactly is the load side on the regulator for?
Because if you ran from the load load side to the device, it would be pointless to have a battery I'd think.

Maybe I'm totally wrong on the setup, so if someone could do a short hookup chain or even better.....a drawing of how it should go in the line ie: where each item should go in the chain I'd be grateful.

I'm going to be hooking this up in another week from now, so just want to make sure I get it all hooked up correctly.

Almost forgot, I will be running a 10watt maximum output tv only, nothing else, so I won't be hooking an invertor up to the system.
It's basically going to have solar panels, a regulator, a battery and a 7" 10watt 1.12A DC tv in the chain.

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The solar charge controller manages the charging of your battery by your solar panels. If you use the Load output on the SCC to power your loads then the controller will also provide low voltage protection for the battery. If, on the other hand, you power your loads directly from the battery you will not have the benefit of the controller protecting your battery for you.
Since you intend to power only a small 10w DC TV, I suggest you try to do this from the Load outputs on the controller first. If you were planning to use an inverter to convert DC to AC then you would not have this option since inverters must come directly from the battery and not through the controller. This is because inverters have their own low voltage protection and you don't want the two interfering with each other.
Take a look at my show-and-tell linked below. You will see where I made a small solar system like yours and tried to first power some AC lights using an inverter but my battery at 7Ah was too small and this did not work. I am now powering 2x5W DC landscape lights for 3 hours every night directly from the Load output on the SCC and that has been working fine for a few months.
You will find that the controller has program options mainly intended for turning on lights after sunset for various lengths of time. But for your TV use you will obviously need to define the Load as "always on".
Hope this helps. Sorry it's so wordy.

I can't speak to the "chaining" but I would guess you're right with your thought and it's all about component placement. For load (as said above), a 10W tv on a~120W load circuit (12V@10A) would be fine. Is that TV 12v or 6v? Of the SCCs I've used, the load output = voltage of the battery X maximum rated current. if your load is that small, you could even add a few DC lights to it and be GTG.

Tv is a 12V Dc and the site says 10watts "maximum" output, so more than likely I will not be using that max.
For those that asked for the tv specs here is the link to the site of the tv.


The specs on the back of the tv state as I posted above.....Power in: DC 12v==1.12A

As for the question or why people are wondering, why only a tv?
Well a few reasons why....
-I reside in my van. I won't get into a long debate on why or how etc.... Let's just say at 7 days a week, 2 jobs, 50+ hours between both of them I still cannot afford rent.
-normally I go inside to places, play on my laptop, and charge my phone, so since this whole covid 19 has every place pretty much inside on shutdown, that's not possible, so I currently have to run my van to charge my phone.
-I looked into a setup to run my laptop on solar, but in further examination that's not an option just yet, maybe never.
With the laptop having an input of 20V==11.5A, that would be 138 watts, for me to run that at 8hrs a day, at 4 sun hrs (I live in Missouri and the avg here for sun hours is 4-6).
Using this calculation on this site:


I am using the worst possible scenerio in the calculations, so I use 4 sun hours, 8 hours a day, at 80% efficiency (again worst case scenario).

It recommends 345watt solar system and a 184Ah battery.

Now, if I want to add in running the tv into the mix, say for sake of just curiosity or just some kind of base, adding both the tv 14.5watts, and the laptop 138 watts, that's 152 watts total.
Using the calculation site and putting the total hours of both for 8 hours, it recommends 380watt solar system, and 202Ah battery.
So as you see just with both the devices it can get a bit expensive.

I don't have a terrible amount of cash to put towards this, instead I'm going smaller to save money.

So there we have it, this is why I am only going to run a small 7" tv, as apposed to running muktiple things.
Nothing on tv anyways, that is a relative term.... Ask one person they say what's on normal tv is just fine, ask another they say nothing is on tv, it's all crap. It all depends on your perception of what's good and what's bad.
I personally am fine with watching normal tv over the air for the day, MEtv is one channel I can name that I remember right off hand, this and also the fact to use internet with the laptop, I'd have to use hotspot, and if you are limited hotspot data plan, then it's kinda pointless even using a laptop at that point, because I can stream, and chat etc from my phone and useing data on hotspot as an avid gamer I am, would not last long at all.

So I am going with a 100watt solar system from harbor freight and a 100Ah battery, and going out to the tv, so no invertor will be needed. All in all I'm probably looking at $350-$400 for the setup. The solar system has everything but the battery, and is like $186. The 100Ah can vary, but on avg will run price wise locally about $120-$150. I did look up lithium, and while I'd love doing that I just can't afford that right now. Amazon prices for a 100Ah lithium, around $600-$700, so that's not an option.

One last question, should I need any extra wire, what gauge is recommended?
From a short search it seems like people are using 10gauge wire

I greatly appreciate the help in the posts, it has helped me a lot.

Maybe take a step back for a minute. A panel and a charge controller can be found locally at home depot, lowes, tractor supply, etc. Call that $180. For only your tv running it for 10 hours/day, you're only looking at using ~100 Wh. So with a lead battery, ~200 Wh capacity.

If you're comfortable that the charge controller will not overcharge/overcurrent your van battery, use it. Otherwise, save some money and get a smaller battery. Anything above a 20 Ah 12v deep cycle or even a 20,000 mAh battery pack for PC/phone charging would be fine. Be sure that whatever battery you use can accept the current produced by your charge controller

Yeti said:

Maybe take a step back for a minute. A panel and a charge controller can be found locally at home depot, lowes, tractor supply, etc. Call that $180. For only your tv running it for 10 hours/day, you're only looking at using ~100 Wh. So with a lead battery, ~200 Wh capacity.

If you're comfortable that the charge controller will not overcharge/overcurrent your van battery, use it. Otherwise, save some money and get a smaller battery. Anything above a 20 Ah 12v deep cycle or even a 20,000 mAh battery pack for PC/phone charging would be fine. Be sure that whatever battery you use can accept the current produced by your charge controller

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@Alpha-y2k - Do you drive your van to work every day? If so, that may be enough to keep it charged up for the TV. Mebbe pick up a little 12v automotive voltmeter (if you don't already have a DVM) so you can keep an eye on your battery and keep enough charge in it so it'll start the next morning.

(Takes me back to my days camping in our tent trailer. We ran the overhead lights at night and cloudy days off the van battery but it was always a guessing game and we were nervous we'd be stuck)

45North said:

@Alpha-y2k that may be enough to keep it charged up for the TV.

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There you go taking a full step back to something even more logical..
That is a valid point. Maybe your only spend would be a portable starter/jumper.

Something like this would give you 12v cigarette socket for your TV's DC cord, plus a couple of 5v USB outlets while letting you keep an eye on your battery voltage.

I've thought about running it from the van battery but I'm not comfortable with doing it that way. I have a slow leak somewhere in the van, and if you've ever tried to track down a electrical leak, you know it could take months even years, and probably a lot of money to find exactly what it is. I've already spent about $300 about 2 years back and I still am haunted with it.
So to save money and time I have a toggle switch and turn it off at night, just simpler that way.
As for the battery, I see a few deep cycle batteries that are rated mca (marine cranking amps) so I was curious, how exactly do you convert mca to watts?
I know the more the better, I'm just curious as to the conversion.
I looked online and couldn't find a conversion calculator at all.

Alpha-y2k said:

how exactly do you convert mca to watts?

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The short answer is, you don't. CCA is a discharge rate. Unless you're going to start your van with it, you dodn't care about CCA. What you're looking for is Ah (amp hours). i.e. it can provide a given current over a given time.

Each battery and battery type has a different charge/discharge profile but effectively take the Ah and multiply by 4.8. it's a generic, conservative estimate to identify your useable power for a 12V Lead Acid battery to keep it healthy. That will give you your useable watts. i.e. a 50Ah battery *4.8 = 240 useable watts. you'll be able to run that TV for 24 hours before you would need to recharge the battery. ( battery capacity * DoD (usually 50% of a SLA battery over a defined time) * efficiency loss (I use 80% for crappy stuff) *V (in this case, 12V)

Yeti said:

The short answer is, you don't. CCA is a discharge rate. Unless you're going to start your van with it, you dodn't care about CCA. What you're looking for is Ah (amp hours). i.e. it can provide a given current over a given time.

Each battery and battery type has a different charge/discharge profile but effectively take the Ah and multiply by 4.8. it's a generic, conservative estimate to identify your useable power for a 12V Lead Acid battery to keep it healthy. That will give you your useable watts. i.e. a 50Ah battery *4.8 = 240 useable watts. you'll be able to run that TV for 24 hours before you would need to recharge the battery. ( battery capacity * DoD (usually 50% of a SLA battery over a defined time) * efficiency loss (I use 80% for crappy stuff) *V (in this case, 12V)

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Yeah, sorry that's what I meant mca to Ah.

So I've been looking a bit, and found this battery


Think that would allow me to watch the tv from 8-10 hours a day?
Doing the calculations of a recommended 23Ah battery for 8 hours a day, this would be double the recommended.

Of course this is usage being high, because once things get back to work I will in no way be watching it near that much, maybe at most 3-5 hours a night after work.

Alpha-y2k said:

Yeah, sorry that's what I meant mca to Ah.

So I've been looking a bit, and found this battery

PumpSpy 12-Volt 40 Ah Maintenance Free Deep Cycle AGM Battery PS1240 - The Home Depot

PumpSpy's 12 VDC, 40 Ah Sealed Lead Acid AGM Deep Cycle battery is recommended for use with the PumpSpy Sump Pump Monitoring System. This battery is compatible with most other battery backup sump pumps

www.homedepot.com

Think that would allow me to watch the tv from 8-10 hours a day?
Doing the calculations of a recommended 23Ah battery for 8 hours a day, this would be double the recommended.

Of course this is usage being high, because once things get back to work I will in no way be watching it near that much, maybe at most 3-5 hours a night after work.

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You can only use 50% of that 40Ah AGM battery that sells for $167 plus tax.

Amped Outdoors sells a 30Ah LiFePO4 for $190 shipped price.

CCA/MCA isn't anything to even consider. I would literally pick the best bang for my buck in a similar situation. Here's an example.

This one is only 32Ah but a 50 will be only slightly more expensive (~$100)

To clarify,
PANELS produce electrical Watts.
These Watts can be wired for Voltage (series: high volts) OR Amperage (parallel: high amps).

A system with Low Volt Battery is often wired for higher Amps, since Amps at low volts is what a battery wants to charge.
When you start talking efficiency, this is fairly wasteful (electrical losses), but it's quite common for folks running automotive voltage battery.

It's MUCH harder to convert low volts/high amps into 120Vac for common appliance use, so inverters are also quite wasteful.

The 'Up' side to using automotive voltage batteries is you don't need two different battery banks for the vehicle they are installed in.
The solar battery can be used for secondary power to start the engine, and the starting batteries can be used to make appliance power in an emergency, but isn't recommended for obvious reasons.

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Charge controller has a converter on the top side that converts panel power to something the battery can use,
The bottom half is a voltage/current regulator that 'Senses' the battery and feeds/regulates what the panels input so battery isn't under/over charged.

Without a constant battery voltage connection, the regulator can't do it's job, so you can't run a common inverter off the panels or common charge controller.
Under voltage will shut the inverter down, while over voltage will spike/destroy the inverter.
Battery works to even out the voltage/current the charge controller passes and fills in any low voltage/under current to the inverter.

While you can get an inverter that will produce common household current directly from panels, you will need room to be seriously over paneled, waste a lot of panel Watts maintaining inverter output without batteries, and the inverter units themselves are quite costly.

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The inverter is simply a converter, converting battery DC Volts/Amps to regulated AC household current output.
The inverter isn't needed when you use automotive DC power appliances, they can connect directly to the battery.
AC inverters allow you to use common household appliances, but the household appliances and inverter aren't very efficient...

On a boat, I would invest in batteries, HIGH POWERED PANELS since space is at a premium, I would want as many watts out of any given square foot of space as possible, and I would go with high efficiency DC components.
There is no sense in producing from panels in DC, using a DC battery for storage, then converting to AC with big losses just so a transformer/rectifier can convert right back to DC for the TV, radio, cell phone, computer, etc.
Just use DC and skip the conversion/inverter losses.

Yeti said:

CCA/MCA isn't anything to even consider. I would literally pick the best bang for my buck in a similar situation. Here's an example.

Duracell Ultra BCI Group 26 12V 450CCA Flooded Battery - SLI26G at Batteries Plus Bulbs

12v golf cart battery with reserve capacity of 55 minutes for any deep cycle application from brands such as Club Car, EZ-Go, Yamaha and more. Also used for boat, RV and solar!

www.batteriesplus.com

This one is only 32Ah but a 50 will be only slightly more expensive (~$100)

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You must be reading my mind.
I did some research on the difference in lead acid (many types) vs lithium ion, and found a few videos on the difference.
Lithium Ion is pretty much the best bang for the buck. While quite a bit more in price, in short lithium can drain roughly 80% vs lead acid 50% as well as lithium has a recharge recharge times about 3-5 times that of the lead acid does, so in the long run it's still worth the price difference, because you get more per time as well as more charges over time.

I was thinking 50Ah lithium, probably at batteries plus around $150, maybe $200, but it will pay for itself many times over.
In the past 2-3 weeks I've done a lot of research on different things as well as ask here, and learned an emense amount of of info over this time. I came in knowing so very little but have learned a lot.
Most of the info and help has come from here and lead me researching, and I greatly appreciate the help.

I'm still not sure exactly what battery I will get but I have narrowed my search down a lot and landed on a 50Ah lithium from batteries plus.
I've been burned a lot with online ordering so I've decided to go with local, and batteries plus is pretty much the only place locally that has any selection of lithium batteries. Most every place around has lead acid but when it comes to lithium there are very few places that have them.

Alpha-y2k said:

I was thinking 50Ah lithium, probably at batteries plus around $150, maybe $200, but it will pay for itself many times over.

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You are not going to find a drop in 50Ah LiFePO4 for $200
Cheapest 100Ah are about $600

55Ah is $330 shipped.

MBR said:

You are not going to find a drop in 50Ah LiFePO4 for $200
Cheapest 100Ah are about $600

55Ah is $330 shipped.

55Ah Lithium Battery (LiFePO4)

The best lithium battery for small boat and Kayak trolling motors. This battery will outperform all 50AH Lithium batteries on the market today at 12lbs 10oz with a true 55AH usable power! Best price in the USA with our direct to consumer pricing. Order one today and see what everyone is taking...

ampedoutdoors.com

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Your right, I guess I was looking at a lead acid.

That 55Ah is out of stock it looks like. I see a 60Ah battery.


Would that work as well?