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Is it possible to protect your Solar System against EMP?

MurphyGuy said:
Solar EMP is an entirely different animal.
When the sun releases a coronal mass ejection towards the earth, billions of tons of material collide with our planet. But our planet has an electromagnetic field surrounding it. This field diverts the solar particles around our planet. If it didn't, we'd all be dead a long time ago. The problem is that if the coronal mass ejection (CME) is big enough, the particles colliding with our magnetic field cause the field to deform. It's a lot like squeezing a balloon full of air. Wherever you squeeze, the balloon stretches somewhere else. The same thing happens to the Earth's electromagnetic field. The stream of solar particles compresses the field on the side facing the sun and causes it to stretch out on the night side. When the solar particles have passed, the electromagnetic field bounces back into place.
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This is more certain than nuclear EMPs. Considering the field strength is weakening 10x faster than previously thought and the pole shifts are gaining speed, a solar flare or CME much less powerful than the Carrington event might takes things out much sooner that expected.
 
HighDesertOffgrid said:
This is more certain than nuclear EMPs. Considering the field strength is weakening 10x faster than previously thought and the pole shifts are gaining speed, a solar flare or CME much less powerful than the Carrington event might takes things out much sooner that expected.
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On the upside: Pretty sure the weaker our magnetic field gets, the less severe the EMP will be.

On the downside: Those solar particles are dangerous to squishy biological beings like us humans.. if they make it to the surface, you get irradiated.
 
MurphyGuy said:
On the upside: Pretty sure the weaker our magnetic field gets, the less severe the EMP will be.

On the downside: Those solar particles are dangerous to squishy biological beings like us humans.. if they make it to the surface, you get irradiated.
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Would they consist of alpha, beta or gama rays ?
 
RandyP said:
Would they consist of alpha, beta or gama rays ?
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Well, the physical particles are mostly alpha and beta (protons and electrons).. but if alpha and beta are able to reach the surface then gamma is coming along with them. Gamma isn't a physical particle, its just nasty high energy photons, and ridiculously difficult to shield against.

Trust me, nothing good would come of that. Say goodbye to us meat bags.

Even with a severely weakened magnetic field, I think it would take a mighty big CME to contact the surface.. and it would blow away a good chunk of our atmosphere we're so fond of breathing as well.

I suspect our Sun is too old for that kind of life ending mischief.. but a Carrington level X25 is certainly not out of the question. We just had one miss us in 2012 by a stupid 9 days, and if it had hit us, we wouldn't be talking about it on the internet today.
 
MurphyGuy said:
Production vehicles are actually shielded very well by design.. but not because of some prepper fear of armageddon.. They are shielded because every high voltage signal to a spark plug creates a tiny EMP pulse that can interfere with electronics.

Don't know if its adequate shielding to save a vehicle from an EMP, but they are shielded quite well from that spark plug.
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You would have to point out this "shielding" since this Toyota/Lexus Master Diagnostic Technician sees nothing but un-shielded wires except on sensor lines that carry a waveform for a control unit.
 
HowlerMonkey said:
You would have to point out this "shielding" since this Toyota/Lexus Master Diagnostic Technician sees nothing but un-shielded wires except on sensor lines that carry a waveform for a control unit.
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I believe the shielding is done at the computer processors. Probably too expensive to shield every wire. I worked in the automotive industry for 30 years but I've never even seen a vehicle's computer.. LOL I got the info from a paper I read way back, like 10 years ago.
 
Although it may not be perfect, I am adding ferrite cores to every wire in my system, enclosing all wires in metal conduit and wire troughs, and creating a wire mesh screen faraday cage around the inverters.
My batteries will also be enclosed in a DIY faraday cage made from metal screening. There is screen behind the inverters, and the wall behind the rock board has an aluminum coating.
You need the right ferrites though, and the larger ones that can handle high energy for 1/0 cable are kinda expensive.
 

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If you put a ferrite around both wires (so differential mode currents cancel out), it can reduce rise time and attenuate very small common-mode signals. Good to prevent RF interference.

I don't think it does much for damaging transients, except slowing them possibly enough to allow surge arrestors to turn on.

Around single wires, will always be saturated and pretty much ineffective.

Have to know and quantify the threat, then design for it.

The shielding should be beneficial. Question is what sort of line filters for feed-throughs, which lead to what are effectively antennas.
 
Hedges said:
If you put a ferrite around both wires (so differential mode currents cancel out), it can reduce rise time and attenuate very small common-mode signals. Good to prevent RF interference.

I don't think it does much for damaging transients, except slowing them possibly enough to allow surge arrestors to turn on.

Around single wires, will always be saturated and pretty much ineffective.

Have to know and quantify the threat, then design for it.

The shielding should be beneficial. Question is what sort of line filters for feed-throughs, which lead to what are effectively antennas.
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Great points, and hell if I know on the line filters. I am simply putting everything I can in a faraday cage, and adding high saturation ferrites to every wire. I bought Fair-Rite ferrites, as they seem to be of a better quality than the Chinese stuff.
I will add a pic after I finish the DIY faraday cages for the batteries and inverters. One part that stumps me is how to do WiFi to the inverters (they have a built in wifi transmitter) when inside a faraday cage. Need some skull sweat around that one.
 
Astinus said:
Well a EMP attack is similar to a high class solar flare so it depends on the amount of magnetic radiation the best shield is a lead unless you want to construct a Faraday cage and can be smart but hard to do post build.
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And just look what happened to telegraph equipment in the 1800's with a solar flare. Simple 2 wire equipment went POOF!! and you expect today's fancy dancy equipment to survive?

You're only hope is to find a saleman wearing a tinfoil hat he'll give you good information.
 
You may be able to make your PV array and wiring poor at picking up differential mode.
Then running through a common-mode choke at your faraday cage, would attenuate common mode.

WiFi is within a certain band. Passive repeater antenna inside and out, band-pass filter, TVS device as limiter.

Optical isolator or fiber extender would be another way to get Ethernet in/out.

I think EMP weapon is far away, not same situation as a near miss. Should be easier for small (not geographically distributed) system to survive.
 
Hedges said:
You may be able to make your PV array and wiring poor at picking up differential mode.
Then running through a common-mode choke at your faraday cage, would attenuate common mode.

WiFi is within a certain band. Passive repeater antenna inside and out, band-pass filter, TVS device as limiter.

Optical isolator or fiber extender would be another way to get Ethernet in/out.

I think EMP weapon is far away, not same situation as a near miss. Should be easier for small (not geographically distributed) system to survive.
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Thats an excellent point on optical fiber for comms! Glass should not be as succeptable as copper to a magnetic pulse, and gigabit optical would work perfectly as the transmission from in the cage to external equipment.
More expensive though....
 
Sanwizard said:
Thats an excellent point on optical fiber for comms! Glass should not be as succeptable as copper to a magnetic pulse, and gigabit optical would work perfectly as the transmission from in the cage to external equipment.
More expensive though....
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Most of my home/business network is fiber because of this…this and lightning. Copper only where it makes sense and then there’s some level protection (Lightning arrestors on POE lines, etc).

Everything between buildings is fiber for sure.
 
SilverbackMP said:
Most of my home/business network is fiber because of this…this and lightning. Copper only where it makes sense and then there’s some level protection (Lightning arrestors on POE lines, etc).

Everything between buildings is fiber for sure.
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I just saw I can get 4 x 1Gb SFP's for $64 on Amazon. Wow, prices have come down a bit on optical!
My business was Storage Area Networking and Fibre Channel, so I do have experience in that area, but in the Enterprise class gear. Any thoughts on a good 4 port residential optical ethernet switch that doesnt break the bank?
 
You guys are so behind the times!

Keysight is now promoting 800G Ethernet.

Perform Efficient Conformance Testing for 800G Ethernet Links

connectlp.keysight.com connectlp.keysight.com

I remember when Ethernet card for PC cost $500 (then you got a laptop with Ethernet for that, now no Ethernet just WiFi, and USB but no optical drive)

I don't know optical switches (although I once worked on boards for Kestrel Solutions).

I just bought 3x Netgear 16 port 10/100 Ethernet switches for about $50. (eBay, of course)
My new place has Sonic Gbit fiber, Wyze 500 Mbit WiFi, and hanging off that 100 Mbit wired ethernet.
 
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Sanwizard said:
I just saw I can get 4 x 1Gb SFP's for $64 on Amazon. Wow, prices have come down a bit on optical!
My business was Storage Area Networking and Fibre Channel, so I do have experience in that area, but in the Enterprise class gear. Any thoughts on a good 4 port residential optical ethernet switch that doesnt break the bank?
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I went went TP Link Omada for various switches which can be configured for independent use or centrally controlled with the hardware they sell or ran in your own. Basically a cheaper and more readily available Ubiquity Unify. Using a Netgear PFsense router (which also can be ran on your own box but I bought theirs for simplicity). Well I will be using all of this. I still have to get the shit fully put together. Looks pretty hanging on two wall mount racks in my solar shed. Jury is still out on how it will all work together.
 
I didn't read through all the posts on this so this may have already came up, but there are a couple of options for EMP protection.

EMP Shield makes a good solution, as does Disaster Preparer.

EMP might be a low probability event, but if it happened . . .
 
Those of you far smarter talk than me discuss complicated ways to protect your (operating) chargers and inverters, but I am going to put my components with circuitry in faraday cages, as my interest is solar is prep for Armageddon. As I understand, panels should survive an EMP and many batteries, as they have no circuitry.

But so many batteries have “BMS” (management systems), especially the LiPo , which means circuitry and EMP vulnerability. First, will such batteries function if their BMS circuitry disintegrates. I was thinking that the BMS is just monitoring, and not really affecting the flow of charge, that the battery terminal would go , without a break, into the storage apparatus. Comments?

Second, would other battery types be a better choice to withstand an EMP out of a faraday cage?
 
Store BMS entirely disconnected from battery.
Most damage due to "events" occurs because event triggers flow of current from connected power, burning things out.

Bad BMS is worse than no BMS, as it can drain cells. With its balancing circuitry, and as a load that consumes power (more if transistors shorted.)

Any battery can only be stored in some state of charge for so long before it degrades. Typically, periodic recharging to some SoC (100% of lead-acid, maybe 30% to 50% for lithium) gives longest shelf life.

Perhaps dry FLA batteries and separate sulfuric acid, possibly mixed in glass jar but better dry and sealed, would be best for decades of storage.

I don't think any disconnected battery will be harmed by EMP, nor if connected. Electronics and (with power available) transformers are at risk.
 
Hedges said:
Store BMS entirely disconnected from battery.
Most damage due to "events" occurs because event triggers flow of current from connected power, burning things out.

Bad BMS is worse than no BMS, as it can drain cells. With its balancing circuitry, and as a load that consumes power (more if transistors shorted.)

Any battery can only be stored in some state of charge for so long before it degrades. Typically, periodic recharging to some SoC (100% of lead-acid, maybe 30% to 50% for lithium) gives longest shelf life.

Perhaps dry FLA batteries and separate sulfuric acid, possibly mixed in glass jar but better dry and sealed, would be best for decades of storage.

I don't think any disconnected battery will be harmed by EMP, nor if connected. Electronics and (with power available) transformers are at risk.
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I bought ferrites for every wire, and will be building a faraday cage around the inverters and batteries. The panels and house will use arrestors and surge suppression. Everything is properly grounded. Spare BMS's in a metal garbage can inside static bags and copper lined plastic. Spare comms( Ham radio gear and spare phone) and Raspberry Pi in the same can.
Thats about all we can do at this point, without some very expensive additions and plans. Fingers crossed nothing will ever be needed, and am good with God just in case.
 
Sanwizard said:
I bought ferrites for every wire, and will be building a faraday cage around the inverters and batteries. The panels and house will use arrestors and surge suppression. Everything is properly grounded. Spare BMS's in a metal garbage can inside static bags and copper lined plastic. Spare comms( Ham radio gear and spare phone) and Raspberry Pi in the same can.
Thats about all we can do at this point, without some very expensive additions and plans. Fingers crossed nothing will ever be needed, and am good with God just in case.
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I assume the inverter, SCCs and electronics are mounted to a wall ... will you build the cage in behind the equiptment? or just on 5 sides with the wall side not being in the cage?
 
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