Great that you could commission this without a cell modem. When you check the Enphase forum, you get contradicting answers on the cell modem requirement. What is the "Envoy" or IQ gateway model number and what firmware version is installed?
Enphase Backup Storage - DIY Self-Installer Hurdles
- Thread starter DER Solar
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Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I have not spent much time on the Enphase forum. I just used the Enphase Toolkit app on my phone.
Outback inverters like Skybox and Radian have been long-time favorites for reliable AC coupling.
Are there successful AC-coupled systems with IQ8's and Outback hybrid inverters?
Since you have the IQ7's you may have an older version firmware in the IQ gateway.
IQ8's require an IQ gateway firmware upgrade to version 7.xx.xx
Driving an EV and charging it with home-solar energy is the best you can do for the environment! Cheers!
Are there successful AC-coupled systems with IQ8's and Outback hybrid inverters?
Since you have the IQ7's you may have an older version firmware in the IQ gateway.
IQ8's require an IQ gateway firmware upgrade to version 7.xx.xx
Driving an EV and charging it with home-solar energy is the best you can do for the environment! Cheers!
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
The Warranty snippet posted above says cell monitoring is needed to maintain warranty eligibility. Did enphase relax that?
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
I believe there’s at least one thread for each of:
- solark
- outback
- Schneider
And one thread for the latest voltronic
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I have no idea. One of the IQ7 micros I self installed in August 2021 failed within a month and I got an RMA very quickly. They were able to look at the data on their cloud and confirm it had failed. There was no mention of cell modem monitoring.
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This why I'm still with Enphase and their micro-inverters. The have replaced every failed one in the past 12 years, and I had lots of them fail. Heat is the biggest enemy for the capacitor electrolyte.
Doing it differently with new IQ8+': use them at reduced power, 250W to see if they last longer.
Doing it differently with new IQ8+': use them at reduced power, 250W to see if they last longer.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
I’ve been chatting with some people about grid support theoretically adding extra wear on micros in general.
Rule21 requires your micros to do volt/var compensation if voltage goes high enough, which can readily happen during peak solar production days. And cycling the reactive current through the microinverters will heat up at least half of the components on it.
Rule21 requires your micros to do volt/var compensation if voltage goes high enough, which can readily happen during peak solar production days. And cycling the reactive current through the microinverters will heat up at least half of the components on it.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Also I’m pretty sure you can order the combiner box without cell modem, which is inconsistent with the cell modem required clause purportedly in the warranty requirements.
Great feedback on VV and reactive current!
LVRT or low-voltage ride through is the real challenge! Micro-inverters need to support the grid to prevent it from collapsing.
You need extra power for this, like cranking up the inverter generator for extra output.
Most of the IQ3 or IQ4 combiner boxes are typically ordered without the ZigBee dongle and the cell modem, because that's all you need to setup grid-tied micro-inverter PV. You need the extras only for the Enphase backup solution.
I don't recommend the IQ combiner if you have only 3 AC strings, MidNite Solar has a great DIN combiner box with an integrated LoTo switch.
LVRT or low-voltage ride through is the real challenge! Micro-inverters need to support the grid to prevent it from collapsing.
You need extra power for this, like cranking up the inverter generator for extra output.
Most of the IQ3 or IQ4 combiner boxes are typically ordered without the ZigBee dongle and the cell modem, because that's all you need to setup grid-tied micro-inverter PV. You need the extras only for the Enphase backup solution.
I don't recommend the IQ combiner if you have only 3 AC strings, MidNite Solar has a great DIN combiner box with an integrated LoTo switch.
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zanydroid
Solar Wizard
I actually wrote a post on Reddit last week to try to get people excited about accounting for this in their overpaneling calculations (since VV takes away from AC out).
Nobody read it despite how excitable people often are at avoiding clipping.
Nobody read it despite how excitable people often are at avoiding clipping.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Yes it would be really bad if the grid had a ton of grid tie inverters supplying 50% of the power, only to suffer a hiccup that would cause the old school inverters to panic and curtail their output.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
And to be clear to anyone following along, the reactive power assistance in VV isn’t dissipating 100% of the VA being diverted to this task, it’s probably closer to 100%-inverter_efficiency (3%?) Though instead of your inverters generating power and $$$ for this thermal stress you are donating grid support.
EDIT: I guess just think of it as the PV equivalent of a "sidewalk snow shovel mandate"
EDIT: I guess just think of it as the PV equivalent of a "sidewalk snow shovel mandate"
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zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Instead of doing Volt/Watt? I'm not sure that would work for a single generator (that happens to also have diversion loads) because the grid is already overvoltage. Turning on a diversion load may not pull down much the voltage that the microinverters see.
On a system wide basis turning on diversion loads might work.
You really know the issues! VV would be better called VvAr or VW like you said. Non-Intrusive passive grid control needs to be replaced with intrusive active control, especially if we get more DER micro-generators and EV's. It's coming with UL1741SB and controls like
IEEE 1815 DNP3
IEEE 2030.5
SunSpec Modbus
IEEE 1815 DNP3
IEEE 2030.5
SunSpec Modbus
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Are those the ones that require internet control protocols and authentication?
That is both exciting to me (to have the knobs available to really make DER smart, 1741SA “smart inverter” is such a meme name for just adding tunable basic control functions), and scary to expose.
That is both exciting to me (to have the knobs available to really make DER smart, 1741SA “smart inverter” is such a meme name for just adding tunable basic control functions), and scary to expose.
Yes! Very exciting. And secure communications.
Cautiously hopeful that the use of proprietary and closed protocols will soon come to end!
But it all depends who is in control of authentication and who has authority to create the logins!
IQ gateway: you need a token assigned by Enphase to access the built-in webinterface.
Schneider InsightHome: you can access the web-server as and admin or a guest, but no advanced authentication.
https://sunspec.org/certification/
Look at the manufacturers on that list and the standards they support and who is certified with specific products.
Enphase supports IEEE 2030.5 for Hawaii and California and is working on implementing SunSpec ModBus.
There is a new IQ gateway supporting IEEE 2030.5 with new firmware, but Enphase has promised to upgrade existing IQ gateways with the new firmware later.
Cautiously hopeful that the use of proprietary and closed protocols will soon come to end!
But it all depends who is in control of authentication and who has authority to create the logins!
IQ gateway: you need a token assigned by Enphase to access the built-in webinterface.
Schneider InsightHome: you can access the web-server as and admin or a guest, but no advanced authentication.
https://sunspec.org/certification/
Look at the manufacturers on that list and the standards they support and who is certified with specific products.
Enphase supports IEEE 2030.5 for Hawaii and California and is working on implementing SunSpec ModBus.
There is a new IQ gateway supporting IEEE 2030.5 with new firmware, but Enphase has promised to upgrade existing IQ gateways with the new firmware later.
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Our installer completed installation of IQ8+ pv system with combiner box 4 (not 4c) just last week. so i can confirm cell modem was not needed. if using IQ8+ it requires combiner box 4/4c it does not work with old combiner box 3.
its a grid tied system
Now i am looking for suggestions on off grid solution during the power outage. does connecting the generator to main panel with interlock kit help trick the enphase IQ8+ to produce power during sunlight. am i missing something?
my long term plan is to have batteries backup with inverter. still doing research on compatible system. dont want to spend more on Enphase anymore
appreciate your response and suggestions.
its a grid tied system
Now i am looking for suggestions on off grid solution during the power outage. does connecting the generator to main panel with interlock kit help trick the enphase IQ8+ to produce power during sunlight. am i missing something?
my long term plan is to have batteries backup with inverter. still doing research on compatible system. dont want to spend more on Enphase anymore
appreciate your response and suggestions.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Probably not. The IQ8 production needs to be balanced against consumption, otherwise it will spike in voltage and shut down. There is some discussion on using mechanical throttle to burn some of the output but I don’t know if anyone has designed this. You need to know some power engineering and electrical engineering knowledge.
IQ8 seem to have a mixed record with AC coupling to third party batteries. Plenty of threads complaining on this.
