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How to AC couple Enphase IQ8 w/Battery Storage to Schneider XW Pro 6848 w/rack batteries, off-grid?

Yes it is expensive, if you buy it from Enphase who sources a custom 64A filter from Astrodyne TDI. It is basically an improved $100 60A filter made for Enphase.
A 60A single stage PLC Astrodyne directional filter costs about $100 and you can get a dual-stage directional 80A Astrodyne filter for $205.
Or you can check eBay and get a used directional 3-phase filter for less than $80 if it is for DIY installs, but you need to know exactly what model would work.

It also depends how it is installed, it must be directional! If installed wrong it'll kill all PLC.

The PLC filter blocks RF interference coming from the grid and/or home. But if the problems are between the filter and the PV lines to the micro-inverters, it is caused by something else, like a noisy Neutral or a long distance Neutral or a poor Neutral/Ground bond. Finally, lets not ignore direct RF cross talk from a 100/110 kHz source or EMC into the PV AC powerlines where the micro-inverters are connected to.

In hindsight, all my problems with PLC several year ago started when I installed Insteon devices, but I did not know at that time.
 
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If they did CDMA or something like that, could recover data even 10 dB below in-band noise.
Works for GPS, should work for anything wired, too.

But they would have to have begun with a spec for the noise environment, designed for it, and then tested its performance.
 
DER Solar said:
The PLC filter blocks RF interference coming from the grid and/or home. But if the problems are between the filter and the PV lines to the micro-inverters, it is caused by something else, like a noisy Neutral or a long distance Neutral or a poor Neutral/Ground bond. Finally, lets not ignore direct RF cross talk from a 100/110 kHz source or EMC into the PV AC powerlines where the micro-inverters are connected to.
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What are the chances the best installer crew at a residential solar contractor can figure this out if there's a shitshow of a demon house, let alone the average one? This is network debugging work, not electrical or solar installation work.

(Same would happen to wireless too)
 
You're absolutely right! I do not think that Enphase designed the original PLC modulation in the M175 and M190 for minimizing noise, EMC and other PLC RF interference. But the Envoy S and IQ gateway with compatible micro-inverters may well use better modulation techniques.
 
zanydroid: totally agree! Will get worse with WIFi and wireless communications everywhere. Hence my suggestion for hard-wired communications!
Plus everything communications related in the backup system should only be hard-wired. Enphase will get rid of ZigBee in the next Enphase 5 battery.
 
DER Solar said:
zanydroid: totally agree! Will get worse with WIFi and wireless communications everywhere. Hence my suggestion for hard-wired communications!
Plus everything communications related in the backup system should only be hard-wired. Enphase will get rid of ZigBee in the next Enphase 5 battery.
Click to expand...

Hmm, yeah. Now that I think about it, it's probably easier to pull an extra cable than to expect them to know how to debug networking stuff.

It's also possible that Enphase etc could provide better guided diagnostics tools, but the network engineer in me says you do a lot better with those if you have some basic theory. Or I could be obnoxiously gatekeeping ?

The local communications from POCO to 1547.1 though is allowed to be wireless. Though I guess it doesn't matter if it fails 10% of the time, they can still get 90% of the curtailment/increase etc that they are calling for
 
Look at what the automotive industry is doing. Cabling is a major cost factor, but would you drive a car where your life would depend on wireless communications between the wheels and the ABS controller? Intra-car no, inter-car: yes! But you do have wireless communications where appropriate like TPMS. And when you car is not driven for prolonged time, you need new TPMS sensors!
 
Yes, for critical real time control you want wired connection. (Interestingly I was reading some comments today about drive-by-wire vs mechanically linked, there's some spicy opinions there, but I digress).

For the solar case there are probably some applications where the real time control is critical, and others where it is not.

For any utility communications, not really, as long as it's like 90% effective across the service area or within relevant sector of the grid.

For something like sunny backup or whatever that dumb feature is called, I have a hard time imagining that it would work well if communications was degraded.

For curtailing output when operating with grid down, and you have a battery to help balance, it's possible 90% communications reliability is OK, you've taken 90% of the work off the battery inverter / bought a little bit of extra time. Perhaps there could be a fallback like frequency shifting to reach the last 10%
 
DER Solar said:
But you do have wireless communications where appropriate like TPMS. And when you car is not driven for prolonged time, you need new TPMS sensors!
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I had to actively slow a person down who had smoke coming off a tire (totally flat) last week at the highway !
When she finally pulled over first thing she said was "Tire ?"
So she saw the warning light and chose to ignore it and try and make it back home.
o_O
 
I don't think her dash idiot light was a smoke alarm, probably a "pressure" sensor which actually observes different RPM. In other words, if she had paid attention to it and stopped, would not have had to buy a new tire.

Did you know there was recently a safety recall for that system? Seems that if all four tires gradually loose pressure over many months or years (all four at similar rate), it is possible for pressure to be too low AND THE SENSOR DOESN'T WARN THE DRIVER!
 
When I got my first car with TPMS sensor, I was shocked to find that they implemented the bare minimum.

On nicer cars you get real time read out of the PSI in the UI.

I believe code minimum is that it just sets an alarm for PSI X% lower than when you do the initial set up after pumping up your tires.
 
I thought the minimum was to detect low pressure. Just firmware and ABS sensor. Apparently that wasn't good enough.

Do you really want sensors that cost more than tires (and might get damaged during tire change)?

(In case you can't tell, none of my cars have that sort of nonsense. Some have seatbelts, but not all. They do all have electric starters!)
 
zanydroid said:
Yes, for critical real time control you want wired connection. (Interestingly I was reading some comments today about drive-by-wire vs mechanically linked, there's some spicy opinions there, but I digress).
.
Click to expand...
Newer airplanes all "fly-by-wire" with lots of redundancy. However, a few went down!
 
Glad you survived the incident.

I'm here despite a motorcycle accident 40+ years ago. Fortunately I T-boned the guy who ran a stop sign instead of the other way around.

Some of mine came without. I could put seatbelt in the '53 Plymouth, but I'd like a 3-point harness. The columns don't have attach points and bench seat doesn't have headrest, so I was imagining replacing with bucket seats that include shoulder strap.
 
Single module Hoymiles micro-inverter HMS-2000 (4 MPPT 2000W) is working AC coupled with Schneider XW+ 5548.
Will present results later and am working on ModBus direct power control.
Hoymiles is committed to open standards and listed in SunSpec registry. HMS-2000 is UL 1741 SB certified and SB supplemental ModBus enabled!
Default CA grid-profile was used.
Will list firmware version for all components later.

Note: This is just the beginning, a single inverter AC coupling test!

Single IQ8 inverter is AC coupled with Schneider XW+ 5548, connected to 50V battery for simulating PV input.
- started with grid-off @ 17:00
Battery SOC: 80%

- off-grid at 17:00, single IQ8's on backup side
- switched grid on @ 18:00, AC volt went from 239V to 245V, frequency stayed at 60 Hz
- switched grid off @ 18:30, IQ8+ stopped producing power for about 1-2 minute
- IQ8+ came online @ 18:32 producing full power

Note: The Enphase diagrams are interpolated and give wrong impression, especially the power curve which I've omitted.
Data is sampled every 5 minutes by IQ gateway, power is updated every 15 minutes.

This test was performed on an older XW+ model, not the XW Pro. Will repeat testing on an XW Pro 6848.

Top line violet: AC frequency
Green line: DC input to IQ8
Brown line: AC output voltage
Red line: DC current

Enphase IQ8+ Data 3.png
 
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solar8484 said:
PLC appears some inherent limitations.
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Yes, I recently purchased a dozen LED fixtures for my garage and shop. After installing four of them my Envoy stopped reporting. It took me days to diagnose the issue to the fixtures. I purchased them from Amazon and was able to return them. I did not want to take a chance on an expensive filter.
 
Gubman said:
Hello all,

Currently running an Enphase roll out based on a mix of IQ8+s & IQ8Ms with 4 x 10T Encharge, a smart switch and 4C combiner. Needless to say, this can stay alive off-grid for about 2 days (48hrs) on average, given very minimal sun during consecutive days. I need more power to survive beyond 48 hours, but Enphase does not allow the addition of a 5th 10T without splitting the home into 2 separate branches, isolating the existing setup, requiring another combiner and smart switch. Enphase appears skittish to offer a coherent solution outside an Enphase hardware ecosystem - why? - reasons. Given the additional cost and inevitable system split, I have decided to attempt to incorporate a XW Pro & 48v rack batteries. Based on hours of reading & searching many forums, I see that this is possible, but have yet find anyone who has actually done it with Encharge batteries in the mix. I will call Schneider at some point, but wanted to load up with more detail prior to doing so. Anyone out there who has made the plunge? Is Schneider the way to go or is a more stable solution possible? I particularly perfer the low frequency inverter approach to complement the existing Encharge output. I am certified to install Enphase & aware of the frequency shifting incorporated to control production.
Click to expand...
Returning to your original post: Enphase uses direct power controls to adjust PV power, they are proprietary and not accessible for integrating other backup solutions. And they kick other inverters of the micro-grid. The only way to AC couple any inverter to the Enphase AC backup bus is with direct power controls that measure backup load and SOC. Todd D from NC Solar Electric has AC coupled Hoymiles inverters to Enphase backup by modulating DC input to the AC coupled non-Enphase inverters.
I'm collaborating with Todd, but trying to do direct power control via ModBus, will take some time.
 
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