Sol Arc 15K Can the generator port be turned off and locked in the off position?

I have a Sol Arc 15k. Installed with 9 KWH of solar. I am in a city of 330k people with a request for a grid tie. The Sol Arc is approved by my local electric company online as a recommended inverter. The city has also permitted the build. I have spent over 100k on two EV plus solar going green. However the electric company is refusing to permit the grid tie. They are citing the generator input as an issue.

Per my Electric company below:

If you would like to use the Sol-ark inverter, we will require additional documentation on how the relaying and controls operate. This would be documentation that only one AC source could be used at a time, grid or generator. I have been advised against processing this application without that documentation, even if the design documentation only approves the solar panels.

I might point out I do not have a generator and I am on grid. Not sure why they want with this. I do have a disconnect switch in place, so my system can be disconnected from the grid so I can be isolated in case of an emergency. That is required for all systems. They specifically want to ensure I only have one source of AC power at any time. Again I have no generator and I am on grid. Have zero plans on getting a generator. I do not even have a battery system. I just want a grid tie. Though that seems impossible. The electric company claims that is not good enough. They need a way to disable to generator input to insure I cannot use it while tied to the grid.

Sol Arc has agreed to a zoom meeting with my installer, the electric company and myself but now my electric company refuses to attend. I need a solution to block the generator input most likely via software though maybe a physical lock out will do, however the electric company seems hell bent on finding reasons not to approve the grid tie. I would also be the first Sol Arc tied to the grid in my city.
Many Enphase systems are in place and yes they have generator back ups but via a transfer switch.

Solar Sam

Sol-Ark doesn’t need it (it is built in), but to satisfied power company, maybe install an external automatic transfer switch (ATS). Then that can be tested to show it disconnects/isolates your system from utility lines in the event their lines are down.

Sounds like no matter what you do, they are not going to accept it.
Get a schematic from Sol-Ark, turn it in to the POCO.
The rest is up to them.

When Gen Input is used with a generator, the Sol-Ark generator transfer switch will never close when the grid is connected. However, if the Gen Input is configured for AC coupled, it will be connected to the grid. Would the Sol-Ark sync to a generator in this mode? AC coupled is only intended for UL1741 inverters, not generators.

Sounds like your utility company is just being a bunch of incompetent jerks. If your state has a public advocate, you might want to give them a call. Utility companies will often give consumers the run-around, but they aren't as willing to do that with regulators.

SolarSamAK said:

If you would like to use the Sol-ark inverter, we will require additional documentation on how the relaying and controls operate. This would be documentation that only one AC source could be used at a time, grid or generator. I have been advised against processing this application without that documentation, even if the design documentation only approves the solar panels.

Click to expand...

This isn't that difficult. Call Sol-Ark, I'm sure they already have this documentation...you aren't the first one to run into this. Additional hardware should not be the first answer to a paperwork issue. It's easier to offer them a document than try to go around what they are asking for in some way.

Oldphile said:

When Gen Input is used with a generator, the Sol-Ark generator transfer switch will never close when the grid is connected. However, if the Gen Input is configured for AC coupled, it will be connected to the grid. Would the Sol-Ark sync to a generator in this mode? AC coupled is only intended for UL1741 inverters, not generators.

Click to expand...

Please forgive me, are you saying the Sol-Ark transfer switch is always open when the grid is active or tied? This is the concern of my power company. They only want one AC input at a time plus solar. So they want the generator input off when the grid is connected and active.

HighTechLab said:

This isn't that difficult. Call Sol-Ark, I'm sure they already have this documentation...you aren't the first one to run into this. Additional hardware should not be the first answer to a paperwork issue. It's easier to offer them a document than try to go around what they are asking for in some way.

Click to expand...

Please note we have offered a zoom meeting between all parties, Sol Ark, homeowner, installer and the power company. The power company does not wish to attend. I assume my only option is mechanical go around.

wdwtx2.0 said:

Sounds like no matter what you do, they are not going to accept it.
Get a schematic from Sol-Ark, turn it in to the POCO.
The rest is up to them.

Click to expand...

What is the POCO?

Basically, sounds like your power company just want to make sure the input is a break before make and not a make before break configuration.

It make sense as they don't want accidental back feed, they cannot take your word alone for it based on the fact you don't own a generator, they have to be certain, as you might sell your home and who knows what the next owner would do.

Just have sol-ark send you a schematic and official letter to clarify, power company need documentation for record, it is all about liability in the end.

Would the Ual listing document nmbe helpful since that functionality is required in UL1741.

Ampster said:

Would the Ual listing document nmbe helpful since that functionality is required in UL1741.

Click to expand...

Then it wouldn't be hard for Sol-Ark to provide it to OP since they would have to show it as part of their certification to UL1741 anyway.

SolarSamAK said:

Please note we have offered a zoom meeting between all parties, Sol Ark, homeowner, installer and the power company. The power company does not wish to attend. I assume my only option is mechanical go around.

Click to expand...

Provide them theme required documentation through registered mail.
Include an attourney if your choice.
Seems a "don't want to generate your own power and pay for the access type of deal"

SolarSamAK said:

Please forgive me, are you saying the Sol-Ark transfer switch is always open when the grid is active or tied? This is the concern of my power company. They only want one AC input at a time plus solar. So they want the generator input off when the grid is connected and active.

Click to expand...

There are 2 transfer switches. One that connects the inverter to the grid and one that connects the inverter to the Gen Input. The Gen transfer switch is open if the inverter is connected to the grid except if you select AC coupled and connect UL1741 inverters to the Gen input. One should not select AC coupled if connecting a generator. Probably best, if you don't mention AC coupled mode.

SolarSamAK said:

What is the POCO?

Click to expand...

Power Company.

wdwtx2.0 said:

Power Company.

Click to expand...

I think he meant who is the POCO.

Hey Everyone,
Thank you all for the advice. Things now seem to be moving forward. All the talk about a backup generator input have been dropped, as I do not have plans or permits for a backup generator. The POCO, installer and Sol Ark had a zoom meeting. Apparently things seem to be moving forward with the install. I did contact my electric company's board of directors and they seemed reasonable and supportive. Also used the city council who was 100% supportive. On top of that I used REAP, (renewable energy project of Alaska), they did nothing, did not even write back to me. Suddenly after the involvement of said groups the POCO engineers desired to attend the zoom meeting and as I said things seem to be working out.

Of note I discussed further with my colleagues who use Enphase in my city. They seem disappointed with the benefits of their system. Hence I went with Sol Ark. Not sure yet if I will come out ahead but after reading my grid tie agreement I became confused. Here are some new concerns I have:

1 Do I have to pay my POCO for storing the energy I net meter. With Sol Ark I can bypass the grid and go direct to my house. I would only send back what I do not use. I feel for those KWH I send to the grid it is fair to charge me for storage but not for the KWH I generate on my property and use on my property. I have enclosed a picture of my setup.
My Sol Ark goes from Solar, to Inverter, then either back to the grid or to my home's main fuse box.

2 If I went with Enphase, would I be charged for all KWH I generate as my colleagues with Enphase send their energy from Enphase combiner box directly to the meter/grid. They do not really have a programmable inverter box. From the meter/grid it then returns to the house (main panel) or load. Every KWH generated is net metered regardless of when the energy is put back into the house. They cannot power their homes if the grid goes down.

I have attached photos of my grid tie agreement. The charges incurred for each KWH are the red. The green is the cost returned to me for net metering a unit and not using it, or net positive (surplus). The purple is the agreement to pay for (Energy storage charge, subtransmission, and transmission services) basically management of each net metered KWH.

3 Do all or most net metering agreements work this way?

Your KWH charge is so low. IMO, rates less than 15 cents/ KWH don't warrant the expenditure. Why are you installing solar in Alaska?

SolarSamAK said:

1 Do I have to pay my POCO for storing the energy I net meter.

Click to expand...

The Poco would say they are charging you to move that power around, looks like you pay transmission fees on the kWhs sent to the grid, or maybe time shifted would be better wording.

SolarSamAK said:

With Sol Ark I can bypass the grid and go direct to my house. I would only send back what I do not use. I feel for those KWH I send to the grid it is fair to charge me for storage but not for the KWH I generate on my property and use on my property. I have enclosed a picture of my setup.

Click to expand...

Where are your home loads/breaker box compared to this panel? The power company can only charge you for what they have a meter on.

SolarSamAK said:

2 If I went with Enphase, would I be charged for all KWH I generate as my colleagues with Enphase send their energy from Enphase combiner box directly to the meter/grid. They do not really have a programmable inverter box. From the meter/grid it then returns to the house (main panel) or load. Every KWH generated is net metered regardless of when the energy is put back into the house.

Click to expand...

That's not Enphase's fault, that must be how the agreement was written, they could have any grid tied inverter with that set up.

SolarSamAK said:

They cannot power their homes if the grid goes down.

Click to expand...

Don't connect net metering to your battery back up. The Enphase systems are grid tied only. That's not related to you having an inverter and battery.

SolarSamAK said:

I have attached photos of my grid tie agreement. The charges incurred for each KWH are the red. The green is the cost returned to me for net metering a unit and not using it, or net positive (surplus). The purple is the agreement to pay for (Energy storage charge, subtransmission, and transmission services) basically management of each net metered KWH.

3 Do all or most net metering agreements work this way?

Click to expand...

Net metering typically means net, kWh for kWh. But, an agreement where you pay for transmission and get 1 for 1 on energy isn't the worst, seems almost fair.


Any concern about burying that inverter in snow? Seems awful close to the ground.

Oldphile said:

Your KWH charge is so low. IMO, rates less than 15 cents/ KWH don't warrant the expenditure. Why are you installing solar in Alaska?

Click to expand...

Huh, where did you get 15 cents from?
21 cents a KWH where I am at. Plus I have 2 EVs. They perform terrible in cold weather. Vampire loss is extreme. I need lots of KWH and the grid tie is likely to close. 8% increase in rates coming. So I installed solar. Those who went before me in Alaska, installing solar, say the production is great as long as your panels don't get covered by snow.

400bird said:

The Poco would say they are charging you to move that power around, looks like you pay transmission fees on the kWhs sent to the grid, or maybe time shifted would be better wording.

Where are your home loads/breaker box compared to this panel? The power company can only charge you for what they have a meter on.

That's not Enphase's fault, that must be how the agreement was written, they could have any grid tied inverter with that set up.

Don't connect net metering to your battery back up. The Enphase systems are grid tied only. That's not related to you having an inverter and battery.

Net metering typically means net, kWh for kWh. But, an agreement where you pay for transmission and get 1 for 1 on energy isn't the worst, seems almost fair.


Any concern about burying that inverter in snow? Seems awful close to the ground.

Click to expand...

Oldphile thanks for the info,

As for inverter it is about 2 or 3 feet off the ground. Snow could be an issue but not up against the house. Over hang helps a bit. Also a bit of a hill there. Radiant heat helps a lot. The first 2 or 3 feet all around my house will be green year round. Getting to the inverter is a bigger problem. Snow shoes will help. As will walking the parameter tightly against the home.

My neighbors Enphase system wires directly into the meter, not in-between the meter and the main panel as mine does. Is there a benefit or major difference or just the way the systems are designed regardless of inverter brand?

Thanks again.

Oldphile,
Sorry I missed the part about the loads. My home is efficient as we did a energy audit a few years ago. We averaged 8 to 12 kwh a day for 3800 sqft. Then we got 2 EVs. Now we average about 35 to 38 KWH a day with some days passing 40 KWH. With free charging at my work it helps a lot. My wife stays home but transports the kids all over the place.
Well pump is my only 220. Ohh, plus my new EV chargers. Rarely do we run both chargers at once. Everything else is natural gas.
We have 9740 on my roof. REC panels. Plus maybe more in the future. You never know.

SolarSamAK said:

Huh, where did you get 15 cents from?
21 cents a KWH where I am at. Plus I have 2 EVs. They perform terrible in cold weather. Vampire loss is extreme. I need lots of KWH and the grid tie is likely to close. 8% increase in rates coming. So I installed solar. Those who went before me in Alaska, installing solar, say the production is great as long as your panels don't get covered by snow.

Click to expand...

I guess I don't know how to read your bill .0601+.00345+.01675+.05476=.13506

Hey Oldphile,
That is not a bill or the price per KWH. That is the price for banking a unit from Solar Generation and taking it back for use at my house. My Net meter fee per unit. Plus 8 usd per month for a solar grid tie.
So banking fees are .061 (Distribution Charge)+ .00345(Subtranmission) = .01675 (Transmission Service) or 7.94 cents per unit I take back from my positive net metering. I am paid 5.4 cents per unit I generate and give to them. My net cost to use I a unit I banked with them being 2.54 cents . So made 5.4 cents minus fees for storage and management of the unit 7.94 this means I yield 2.54 in cost all in cents or 0.0254 USD per KWH.

5.4-7.94 = -2.54 cents for each KWH I net meter back to me.

The uploads are the terms of the agreement. I am at work today but will post a most recent bill later this week. My cost per KWH not net metered is about 20 to 21 cents. Probably even more as I pay a monthly service fee as well.

Hence why my neighbor never has a positive return. Also why going to grid/meter before your home is such a mistake in my mind.

Thanks,
Sam

Definitely an odd setup. If you are required to sell all of your production to the utility company. And then buy back what you actually use.