Off grid but still receive a utility bill

no NET Metering
connect fee is $16.90 plus taxes on THAT
no grid power used, bill $18.5
generated myself, cost would be $142.50
saved $124 for that month
TOU rate

400bird said:

Where's the line for underground service?

Click to expand...

For us I think it is a new termination box they install next to the meter.

We got converted from overhead to underground by FPL. They ran new lines into a box, then into the meter.
They took the weather head off but left the pole sticking out through the shingles and capped it. Fugly.

My utility charges close to $30 per month for a connection fee, and all the other associated fees (poor people fees). I had them disconnect me over the phone.

I still have wires and a meter. If in the first 12 months after disconnection I need them to turn it back on, I need to pay all monthly charges from disconnection date to turn back on date, after 12 months of disconnection they will come take out their meter.

So if after 12 months, I will not have to pay back connection fees anymore, but then I must pay a re-connection fee. They will get you one way or the other......

Wakintx said:

Think about it. It cost money for the utility or the power distribution people to put in all of those poles all of that wire all over the neighborhoods.

They're going to need to recoup that infrastructure cost

Click to expand...

Most utilities companies are llowed to charge an "infrastructure" cost as well as a "connection" fee.
For example, in my neighborhood DTE ran a natural gas line, The Public service commission allowed them to charge $5,000 per household.
It is payable as $50.00 per month over 10 years. That includes interest of course, and the balance is amortized down with each payment. After 10 years there is no hook up fee.
With this added $50.00/month it was and remains cheaper to stick with propane for 10 years.

You don't think they already recouped it decades ago?

And although we pay for the cost of the improvements (sometimes in cash up front, when a transformer is installed to service just our property, like the $150,000 estimate they gave me for a 75 kVA 3-phase transformer), it is depreciated on their books, allowing them to harvest profits - 8% of book value each year.

Did that $50 fee really stop after 10 years? Or did they ask it be extended (not an "increase") after that for some other project? That's what happens to temporary taxes or bridge tolls.

Hedges said:

Did that $50 fee really stop after 10 years? Or did they ask it be extended (not an "increase") after that for some other project? That's what happens to temporary taxes or bridge tolls.

Click to expand...

The 10 year period ends next year so I'll find out then.

Farm Boy said:

In my area of OH, they have a grid tie program. I chose not to be part of it. I have electric utility at my place. My solar set up is separate from the utility. The last few months I've been able to use zero KWH grid utility use, but continue to receive a utility bill. It shows on the bill 0 kwh but charged $12.32 each month. They call this a "Line Distribution Charge". So, I have no desire to have my line cut at the road because you just never know who may need the convenience of the grid. I figure it is costing me .41 cents a day to keep my utility. I am posting this to see if this is customary across the country or may be I'm in a lucky state not being charged even more or less depending on others.

Click to expand...

Try $29.83 from Entergy Texas

McKravitts said:

The 10 year period ends next year so I'll find out then.

Click to expand...

Ask the users of I90 if the tolls were withdrawn when they were set to expire. Well yes they took out the toll booths and replaced them with an electronic system.

B-Mod said:

My utility charges close to $30 per month for a connection fee, and all the other associated fees (poor people fees). I had them disconnect me over the phone.

I still have wires and a meter. If in the first 12 months after disconnection I need them to turn it back on, I need to pay all monthly charges from disconnection date to turn back on date, after 12 months of disconnection they will come take out their meter.

So if after 12 months, I will not have to pay back connection fees anymore, but then I must pay a re-connection fee. They will get you one way or the other......

Click to expand...

There are cities where you have to pay electric utility even if you have an empty plot of land with nothing on it due to a city ordnance that states the grid must be maintained and everyone must pay. They nab it from you at the time of property taxes.

McKravitts said:

Most utilities companies are llowed to charge an "infrastructure" cost as well as a "connection" fee.
For example, in my neighborhood DTE ran a natural gas line, The Public service commission allowed them to charge $5,000 per household.
It is payable as $50.00 per month over 10 years. That includes interest of course, and the balance is amortized down with each payment. After 10 years there is no hook up fee.
With this added $50.00/month it was and remains cheaper to stick with propane for 10 years.

Click to expand...

I think $66,000 was enough for 21 years.

If they reconfigured the bill and made it clear that the $12 a month was to maintain the grid, and it was the same for everyone, I would be fine with that as a fixed cost to have the grid available. Maybe have tiers for the size of the grid service. A fee based on single phase 120/240 at 100 amp, a bit more for 200 amp, more still if it is a 3 phase feed, etc. That makes far more sense than trying to charge people with solar an extra fee to help people who can't afford solar. I did some work in a very rich person's home, the house had a 200 amp panel for the garage and guest house, and a separate 400 amp panel for the main house. and pool building. The house also had over 20 KW of solar panels and I saw at least 4 Tesla Powerwall2 units as well as at least 4 A/C outdoor units. The mechanical room of the main house had 2 huge 100+ gallon heat pump water heaters. The garage had 4 EVSE units. I don't know what cars they had. Under my idea, a home like this would pay a higher flat fee to keep their 600 amps of grid available compared to my 100 amp feed.

Under the current rules, my system is able to zero it out and I am paying nothing. My credits built up and are paying the extra fees right now. I will do that as long as I can, but I do see how people without solar could see it as unfair. In a way, I am "paying" for it, as I did supply the grid power at just $0.065 per KWH to pay those fees. And it cost me quite a bit of money to be able to do that. All at the same time, if I do need to buy any power, they bill me the peak rate of $0.57 now. That is nearly a 9:1 ratio.

I pay about 12 bucks a month also for the grid to be connected. I've had a few bills that were only 13-15 bucks before.

What would happen if you didn’t pay them for a while? I mean, it’s a cheap backup, but imagine you want to be off grid for good, if that laws/codes forced a payment at every pacel regardless of grid connectivity, then what?

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

What would happen if you didn’t pay them for a while? I mean, it’s a cheap backup, but imagine you want to be off grid for good, if that laws/codes forced a payment at every pacel regardless of grid connectivity, then what?

Click to expand...

From what I understand, in the past around here, if you didn't pay for just 2 full months...
They will try to contact you about payment...
But if they can't reach you, they send someone to the house to check on the residents, and if they still can't reach anyone...
Then they pull the meter and install a new lock on the meter socket.

Then you have to pay a big reconnect fee if you want grid power again.

But when Covid hit, that got extended out to more like 4 or 5 months. And they needed approval from the city to cut off someone's power. That lasted over 3 years. About 2 or 3 months ago, my bill had wording about that program ending. It had a number to call if you still are having issues paying your bill etc.

I would bet that would also put a big it on your credit report too.

MaikaiLifeDIY said:

What would happen if you didn’t pay them for a while? I mean, it’s a cheap backup, but imagine you want to be off grid for good, if that laws/codes forced a payment at every pacel regardless of grid connectivity, then what?

Click to expand...

This is something you as a property owner in the township, city, whatever have a modicum of control over. 90% of politics is local. When the city decides to extend water/sewer/power that is generally something that is voted on. At that point you become obligated to the terms of that whatever they may be. When you buy property you should make sure you understand exactly what you are buying. If you own property and there is a referendum or other actions that are going to obligate you then you should make sure your voice is heard by the local politicians that are pushing it.

That being said, there are usually events associated with this. Something passes locally and they run water, sewer, or power down your street. You are generally 'grandfathered', but once someone owning that property decides to pay and connect, a different set of rules is now in play, and you are often then obligated to pay for that connection in perpetuity as long as the property remains a zoned lot the same as it was when it was connected.

If you purchase an already developed parcel you will be subject to whatever zoning and rules in regards to provided utility service attached to the property when you buy it. This is in the best interest of the town/locale. If you don't want to participate either move farther out, or lobby your town council / zoning board to change the rules/zoning. Whatever they are charging you for connection fees rarely covers the actual cost to the city of running the lines. Most cities try to get the costs back by the time they have to rip it out and replace it.

Your voice is a lot louder at a local event than at a state or national one.

$30 monthly fee from the local CO-OP without using power. Not hooking up to the grid at the lake gives me a 12 year payback on my LFP batteries, and that's before I use any of the power my system makes.

BKY2003 said:

Mine, if you have 15 kw system, base fee is $87.83 a month.

Click to expand...

Just got a letter from the Power Company. 2024 increased to $4.94 per kw. 15KW x $4.94 =74.10 plus $35 membership fee= $109.10 base fee. Ouch.

BKY2003 said:

2024 increased to $4.94 per kw. 15KW x $4.94 =74.10 plus $35 membership fee= $109.10 base fee. Ouch.

Click to expand...

You could buy 10 kWh of LF280 cells for that price per year. Which power company?

AntronX said:

You could buy 10 kWh of LF280 cells for that price per year. Is that Duke power?

Click to expand...

It’s a coop. They don’t like customers putting in solar. I am starting to work towards getting back to a regular meter. And take what I can off grid.

BKY2003 said:

And take what I can off grid.

Click to expand...

That per kW charge is so high it now makes sense to go battery instead of net meter. That charge could pay for 100kWh of 10 year life battery indefinitely assuming prices remain fixed on both sides. But as batteries get cheaper and net metering goes away, batteries become even better deal.

It does not surprise me. I live in Florida, my auto insurance has skyrocketed to $8000 a year. My homeowners insurance when from $3000 to $6000. Just things that happen before we go into a depression. Lol

BKY2003 said:

Just got a letter from the Power Company. 2024 increased to $4.94 per kw. 15KW x $4.94 =74.10 plus $35 membership fee= $109.10 base fee. Ouch.

Click to expand...

This is why I was hesitant to get net metering at all. Thankfully they don't seem to be pushing for a system size based monthly fee (yet).

BKY2003 said:

It does not surprise me. I live in Florida, my auto insurance has skyrocketed to $8000 a year. My homeowners insurance when from $3000 to $6000. Just things that happen before we go into a depression. Lol

Click to expand...

What kind of cars are you insuring to have such an insane cost? Ouch!

Farm Boy said:

In my area of OH, they have a grid tie program. I chose not to be part of it. I have electric utility at my place. My solar set up is separate from the utility. The last few months I've been able to use zero KWH grid utility use, but continue to receive a utility bill. It shows on the bill 0 kwh but charged $12.32 each month. They call this a "Line Distribution Charge". So, I have no desire to have my line cut at the road because you just never know who may need the convenience of the grid. I figure it is costing me .41 cents a day to keep my utility. I am posting this to see if this is customary across the country or may be I'm in a lucky state not being charged even more or less depending on others.

Click to expand...

$45 month for me just have the grid.
That doesn’t count usage.