12v or 24v

[time2roll]

I have no system in place for the trailer. It is gutted and am currently redoing the interior.

I would match the battery voltage to the lighting and other accessories to be installed.

Yes a converter can be used. I prefer a direct wire.

 

[HarryN]

Is that Significant?

I think that it is actually. The OP is in Canada and we need to be realistic that our Canadian friends can be subject to some pretty severely cold weather.

AGM battery chemistry can be fine tuned for specific applications.

Lifeline's battery technology was optimized for the needs of the US Navy, especially for subs, so the ability to charge and discharge quickly was very prioritized. IIRC, the lower limit for a fully charged battery use in their data sheet is ~ ( -30 F)

Rolls battery technology was optimized for cold weather use, so their batteries are the most resistant to freezing solid of any that I know of. It is closer to a ~ ( - 45 F ) battery IIRC.

Batteries like full river were optimized for lowest possible far east production cost and performance is not really a factor in the design. The last time I looked they don't post any data sheets on performance similar to what Lifeline or Rolls publish. The lack of a data sheet with discharge curves is an easy way to sort a battery offering.

The typical LiFe battery cannot be charged if the core of it goes below ~ + 30 F, and in a 10 ft trailer, there is no practical way to deal with this.

That is the basis for my suggestions.

Northern and another firm on the east coast make a really good battery but I can't think of the name at the moment.

 

[MrNatural22]

Bad microwave advise, sorry. Unless you purchase an "inverter microwave", which are vastly better for mobile, then almost all microwaves achieve "half power" by cycling magnetron on full power, at a 50% time cycle. Only inverter microwaves actually change the amount of power the magnetron uses from 100%. A "700W" small counter microwave actually pulls 1150W, the "700w" on label is the 60% efficiency or so magnetron output. But it cycles 1150 on/off to do it, a huge inverter pull due to cycling induction. However, if you set 50 to 70% power on the inverter microwave, you can cook quite well with 800-1000W actual pull, allowing a 1000W inverter to run a small microwave just fine.

Purchase the Panasonic inverter microwave, tons of good mobile application reviews.

Ok, inverter is better and more $$. I built a 10’ cargo conversion using a 100ah 12v lifepo on a 1500 w PS inverter
For 4 years camping 7-10 times a year running a cheapie 700w micro on 1/2 power with zero problems. Just take a bit longer to cook.
K.I.S.S…..this system works just fine and saves some $$
But, You can argue if it trips your trigger

 

[littleharbor2]

Batteries like full river were optimized for lowest possible far east production cost and performance is not really a factor in the design. The last time I looked they don't post any data sheets on performance similar to what Lifeline or Rolls publish. The lack of a data sheet with discharge curves is an easy way to sort a battery offering.

Where are you getting this info regarding Fullriver batteries?

All lead acid batteries are freeze resistant when properly charged. Do you have any data or info showing that Rolls batteries are designed for and superior sub freezing environments?

 

[justinm001]

Where are you getting this info?

All lead acid batteries are freeze resistant when properly charged. Do you have any data or info showing that Rolls batteries are designed for sub freezing environments?

They have all their specs on their site

Rolls Flooded Battery Capacity & Temperature

Ideal operating temperature for Flooded deep cycle lead-acid batteries is 25°C (77°F). Battery capacity and cycle life is affected by operating temperature. Operating at higher temperatures will reduce cycle life due to cell degradation. &n...

support.rollsbattery.com

 

[littleharbor2]

They have all their specs on their site

Rolls Flooded Battery Capacity & Temperature

Ideal operating temperature for Flooded deep cycle lead-acid batteries is 25°C (77°F). Battery capacity and cycle life is affected by operating temperature. Operating at higher temperatures will reduce cycle life due to cell degradation. &n...

support.rollsbattery.com

As do Fullriver

https://fullriverbattery.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/DC250-6.pdf

https://fullriverbattery.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/DC400-6.pdf

 

[Dave in AZ]

Ok, inverter is better and more $$. I built a 10’ cargo conversion using a 100ah 12v lifepo on a 1500 w PS inverter
For 4 years camping 7-10 times a year running a cheapie 700w micro on 1/2 power with zero problems. Just take a bit longer to cook.
So that shoots your theory down.

Uhhhh... no it doesn't? I already mentioned that a 700W microwave pulls 1100 to 1150W, you used a 1500W inverter soooooo... when you used 50% power, it STILL used 1100W or so, jist turned it on and off more, and took way longer to cook your food, for no reason. LOL. Bummer for you, but it's all in the past.

You can certainly use a cheap 700W microwave, if you have an inverter that will support it. I do this myself, small cheap walmart one. But I have a 2000W inverter too, so no issues. My point was that someone with a 1000W inverter, in a small setup, can still have and use a microwave. Here is the Emerson inverter microwave, $119, doesn't even cost much more. Better efficiency and power usage as well as being able to run under 1000W actual.

Emerson MWI1212SS Countertop Microwave Oven with Inverter and Button Control, LED Display 1000W 10 Power Levels, 8 Auto Menus, Glass Turntable and Child Safe Lock, 1.2 Cu. Ft, Stainless Steel https://a.co/d/4O5vHq6

 

[MrNatural22]

Uhhhh... no it doesn't? I already mentioned that a 700W microwave pulls 1100 to 1150W, you used a 1500W inverter soooooo... when you used 50% power, it STILL used 1100W or so, jist turned it on and off more, and took way longer to cook your food, for no reason. LOL. Bummer for you, but it's all in the past.

You can certainly use a cheap 700W microwave, if you have an inverter that will support it. I do this myself, small cheap walmart one. But I have a 2000W inverter too, so no issues. My point was that someone with a 1000W inverter, in a small setup, can still have and use a microwave. Here is the Emerson inverter microwave, $119, doesn't even cost much more. Better efficiency and power usage as well as being able to run under 1000W actual.

Emerson MWI1212SS Countertop Microwave Oven with Inverter and Button Control, LED Display 1000W 10 Power Levels, 8 Auto Menus, Glass Turntable and Child Safe Lock, 1.2 Cu. Ft, Stainless Steel https://a.co/d/4O5vHq6

Oh my
The simple fact is the set up I posted works well but some just like to argue.

So gotta go now. We have better things to do.

 

[Stircrazy]

I think that it is actually. The OP is in Canada and we need to be realistic that our Canadian friends can be subject to some pretty severely cold weather.

AGM battery chemistry can be fine tuned for specific applications.

Lifeline's battery technology was optimized for the needs of the US Navy, especially for subs, so the ability to charge and discharge quickly was very prioritized. IIRC, the lower limit for a fully charged battery use in their data sheet is ~ ( -30 F)

Rolls battery technology was optimized for cold weather use, so their batteries are the most resistant to freezing solid of any that I know of. It is closer to a ~ ( - 45 F ) battery IIRC.

Batteries like full river were optimized for lowest possible far east production cost and performance is not really a factor in the design. The last time I looked they don't post any data sheets on performance similar to what Lifeline or Rolls publish. The lack of a data sheet with discharge curves is an easy way to sort a battery offering.

The typical LiFe battery cannot be charged if the core of it goes below ~ + 30 F, and in a 10 ft trailer, there is no practical way to deal with this.

That is the basis for my suggestions.

Northern and another firm on the east coast make a really good battery but I can't think of the name at the moment.

rolls is way to expensive, but they are good heavy duty construction, but even living in Canada I an running LiFePo4. just mount it in the living area of the camper so the furnace keeps it warm and I have had no issues. now I don't intentionally camp at -30C but I do go out in late fall and eairly spring where it gets down to -10C at night

 

[DPC]

The Wisdom of Mr Natural!

 

[HarryN]

To make it easy to find, I uploaded the battery manuals for the Lifeline batteries that are interesting to me ( for van / trailer use ).

You might ask why I picked these specific ones for work that I did in the past on mobile power systems:
- Two of them, wired in series, can power 1 kW loads for a reasonably long time without dropping the voltage below the low voltage cut out of common items used in vans, etc.
- While not as light as LiFe, the size and weight are something that I can pick up without equipment

Each battery type has it's place, I think these ( and similar high end AGMs ) are worth considering for cold weather, mobile applications.

I will try to post some other battery manuals in the battery section as I have time to go through them.

Lifeline Battery manuals

Hi, just adding some manuals on these batteries for easy access for forum members and related discussions. Main technical manual for their AGMs.

diysolarforum.com

What you will notice is that they have very detailed rate vs voltage discharge curves. Without these, it is really impossible to engineer a power system using AGMs, but very easy with them.

IMHO, it isn't worth buying an AGM battery that does not have real discharge curves published.

It has been a while, but I believe that there is also information on performance at various temperatures to help estimate the effects of cold weather. Obviously performance drops off, but at least they can still be charged and discharged when it is cold.

 

[HarryN]

I would match the battery voltage to the lighting and other accessories to be installed.

Yes a converter can be used. I prefer a direct wire.

Makes perfect sense. Nearly everything is available in either 12 or 24 volt, some dual voltage.

If it makes any difference, modern USB ports have higher wattage output when used in 24 volt systems vs 12 volt, but maybe I am just impatient.

 

[Budsy]

Biggest question is what size panel? If 100w max then you pretty much need to be 12V.

Thanks. I have now purchased a 395 watt panel

 

[Budsy]

I think that it is actually. The OP is in Canada and we need to be realistic that our Canadian friends can be subject to some pretty severely cold weather.

AGM battery chemistry can be fine tuned for specific applications.

Lifeline's battery technology was optimized for the needs of the US Navy, especially for subs, so the ability to charge and discharge quickly was very prioritized. IIRC, the lower limit for a fully charged battery use in their data sheet is ~ ( -30 F)

Rolls battery technology was optimized for cold weather use, so their batteries are the most resistant to freezing solid of any that I know of. It is closer to a ~ ( - 45 F ) battery IIRC.

Batteries like full river were optimized for lowest possible far east production cost and performance is not really a factor in the design. The last time I looked they don't post any data sheets on performance similar to what Lifeline or Rolls publish. The lack of a data sheet with discharge curves is an easy way to sort a battery offering.

The typical LiFe battery cannot be charged if the core of it goes below ~ + 30 F, and in a 10 ft trailer, there is no practical way to deal with this.

That is the basis for my suggestions.

Northern and another firm on the east coast make a really good battery but I can't think of the name at the moment.

Thanks. To be fair i live in south western BC so we don’t get to -20 very often.

 

[grizzzman]

Uhhhh... no it doesn't? I already mentioned that a 700W microwave pulls 1100 to 1150W, you used a 1500W inverter soooooo... when you used 50% power, it STILL used 1100W or so, jist turned it on and off more, and took way longer to cook your food, for no reason. LOL. Bummer for you, but it's all in the past.

I just replaced my trailers that pulled 1550 watts to a GE unit claiming 700 watts. It pulls 1100 watts.........

You can certainly use a cheap 700W microwave, if you have an inverter that will support it. I do this myself, small cheap walmart one. But I have a 2000W inverter too, so no issues. My point was that someone with a 1000W inverter, in a small setup, can still have and use a microwave. Here is the Emerson inverter microwave, $119, doesn't even cost much more. Better efficiency and power usage as well as being able to run under 1000W actual.

Emerson MWI1212SS Countertop Microwave Oven with Inverter and Button Control, LED Display 1000W 10 Power Levels, 8 Auto Menus, Glass Turntable and Child Safe Lock, 1.2 Cu. Ft, Stainless Steel https://a.co/d/4O5vHq6

 

[Dave in AZ]

I just replaced my trailers that pulled 1550 watts to a GE unit claiming 700 watts. It pulls 1100 watts.........

Yep, the "700 watts" microwaves claim is the magnetron output power, the cooking power if you will, not the actual device power use. Ac to microwave energy is only 65% efficient or so, so 700W of microwaves takes 1100W input or so. Works for me, as I've never been a skilled enough microwave user to set anything but full power anyways!

 

[grizzzman]

Yep, the "700 watts" microwaves claim is the magnetron output power, the cooking power if you will, not the actual device power use. Ac to microwave energy is only 65% efficient or so, so 700W of microwaves takes 1100W input or so. Works for me, as I've never been a skilled enough microwave user to set anything but full power anyways!

Well it works with the inverter I have so it is all good. But with that said it is clearly a con of sorts.....