A few questions - switches, cable size, shore power, fuses...

[HarryN]

This stuff might be easy for you but I can tell you anything you need to know about health and nutrition. Easy peasy!

It is like that sometimes. This stuff is easy for me, but nutrition is challenging. Maybe we should do a trade.

As far as your van, the typical 2022 Ford Transit was shipped with:
- 250 amp alternator
- Single starter battery
- customer connection point 1 ( CCP1) that is always on
- customer connection point 2 ( CCP2 ) that is on / off with the van running

Some did not include CCP2 but most did.

There was a dual starter battery option and dual alternator option as well.

The ( + ) terminal for the CCP1 and CCP2 are located on the base of the drivers seat.

There are specific factor roof mount points that should be used for mounting solar panels framework or anything else that goes on the roof.

As you can tell, I have built a few electrical systems for Transits.

Harry

 

[mikefitz]

If this is correct, do I need a charger for 24v since that is what my battery is?

Yes a 24 volt single output unit, 16 A or 12A, example,

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energy-24-Volt-Battery-Bluetooth/dp/B08TRP9T2N/ref=sr_1_9?crid=2KXLI9GNRO1ZU&keywords=victron+ip22+24v+30a+charger&qid=1695312319&sprefix=victron+ip22+24v+30a+charger%2Caps%2C207&sr=8-9

Connect via fuse to the buss bar, your battery is 24 volts so the chargers need to be 24 volts. Your fuse block is on the 12 voutput of the converter. Circuits you have seen will be 12v systems.

Your Transit will happily work with a battery to battery charger, 12 to 24, example,

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energy-Orion-Tr-Smart-24-15A/dp/B07YMSJB7D

 

[RV8R]

It seems that with the smart alternator and a B2B it will work without stress on the alternator but I can't say I actually saw a definitive answer on the Transit forum. I didn't know the transit has a smart alternator. I'm so grateful people want to share what they know.

Hi @Kayte

I'm so grateful people want to share what they know.


Me Too; none of us were born knowing any of this stuff, so we all learned it from someone ?.

Helping others helps ourselves, ponder our own cobbled together systems.


Sounds like @HarryN kinda knows about Transits eh ? ?. He pulled that info outta his head possibly without coffee.

 

[mikefitz]

approx 1800wh round up to 2000wh

That estimate is perhaps too high but useful as a working value.

Because you have chosen a 24 volt battery the DC side gets a little complex. You have a mix of 24 v and 12v accessories so you need to be clear where to connect. I initially assumed all the DC stuff was 12v.
All the 12v appliances connect to a fuse distribution box fed from the 24 to 12 converter. You will need an additional fuse distribution box for the 24v appliances fed from the 24 volt buss bar.
If the fridge is the only 24 volt accessory, you could run it of 12 volts ( assuming it's a 24/12 DC fridge) and simplify the system.

 

[HarryN]

Hi @Kayte

I'm so grateful people want to share what they know.


Me Too; none of us were born knowing any of this stuff, so we all learned it from someone ?.

Helping others helps ourselves, ponder our own cobbled together systems.


Sounds like @HarryN kinda knows about Transits eh ? ?. He pulled that info outta his head possibly without coffee.

Unfortunately you are right. I need some coffee and we ran out. Time to go shopping.

 

[Kayte]

It is like that sometimes. This stuff is easy for me, but nutrition is challenging. Maybe we should do a trade.

As far as your van, the typical 2022 Ford Transit was shipped with:
- 250 amp alternator
- Single starter battery
- customer connection point 1 ( CCP1) that is always on
- customer connection point 2 ( CCP2 ) that is on / off with the van running

Some did not include CCP2 but most did.

There was a dual starter battery option and dual alternator option as well.

The ( + ) terminal for the CCP1 and CCP2 are located on the base of the drivers seat.

There are specific factor roof mount points that should be used for mounting solar panels framework or anything else that goes on the roof.

As you can tell, I have built a few electrical systems for Transits.

Harry

I almost ordered the second battery and maybe it would have kept the single battery from going dead frequently. I removed the cargo lights so they aren't on when the doors are opened often for several hours. The problem I'm guessing is the self leveling the van does. Or some other electronic thing it's doing. It frequently makes some sort of electronic noise with no one near it. I'd like to know if whatever it's doing can be disconnected without altering anything important. I often don't drive it for a couple weeks at a time. I'm trying to be more conscious of driving it but one shouldn't have to drive their vehicle every week to keep the battery charged. I know it's not good for a battery to sit but it should be fine for 3-4 weeks. I got the van a year ago and only have 1,752 miles.

 

[Kayte]

That estimate is perhaps too high but useful as a working value.

Because you have chosen a 24 volt battery the DC side gets a little complex. You have a mix of 24 v and 12v accessories so you need to be clear where to connect. I initially assumed all the DC stuff was 12v.
All the 12v appliances connect to a fuse distribution box fed from the 24 to 12 converter. You will need an additional fuse distribution box for the 24v appliances fed from the 24 volt buss bar.
If the fridge is the only 24 volt accessory, you could run it of 12 volts ( assuming it's a 24/12 DC fridge) and simplify the system.

It is a 12/24 DC so I suppose the smart thing to do is use the 12v. I was looking for more efficiency when I chose 24 and smaller wire size but it doesn't seem like the wire I need is very small at all.

 

[mikefitz]

It is a 12/24 DC so I suppose the smart thing to do is use the 12v.

Agree, it seems the smart thing initially, but the complete 12v system relies on a Chinese low cost 24 to 12 converter. If this fails you loose power to everything on the 12 volt DC circuit.
On reflection a feed at 24 volts to the fridge may be a good idea. Also consider a more up market 24 to 12 converter, more expensive but hopefully more reliable.
Need to estimate 12v power needs, rough guess with everything on you list taking power is 35 amps. Of course not everything will be on at the same time, so the average current will be lower, apart when you have heater startup I would think the typical DC current at 12v will will be less than 10 amps.

Mike

 

[Kayte]

Agree, it seems the smart thing initially, but the complete 12v system relies on a Chinese low cost 24 to 12 converter. If this fails you loose power to everything on the 12 volt DC circuit.
On reflection a feed at 24 volts to the fridge may be a good idea. Also consider a more up market 24 to 12 converter, more expensive but hopefully more reliable.
Need to estimate 12v power needs, rough guess with everything on you list taking power is 35 amps. Of course not everything will be on at the same time, so the average current will be lower, apart when you have heater startup I would think the typical DC current at 12v will will be less than 10 amps.

Mike

An operating fridge is the most important item to me so perhaps I'll get the 24v fuse box and upgrade the converter when it croaks.

 

[HarryN]

The Transit van has some small amount of standby power draw from the starter battery.

I don't remember exactly how much it is, but after 3 - 4 weeks it will be drained down.

A lot of people put a small solar trickle charger in the windshield to keep it charged up.

 

[Tomthumb62]

I do not know a lot about the Transits. @HarryN might chime as he has Transit experience & knows about the smart alternator. He also would know about 12vdc to 24vdc B2B chargers. If you are near San Fran, also a great source of assistance.

Depending on your use & area, Alternator charging can be the way to go. We almost 100% charge our batteries by alternator.

At this point you have purchased items without knowing your design. I recommend you try to identify your use / needs, & we can vet your design here before you purchase more items. There will be some differences in opinions of course ,,, eg depending on the cost I would buy a BM712 smart over the Smart Shunt ,,, it might have some additional features down the road you might like

When I look at your 120vac loads, I believe you can have the inverter off typically unless the need arises “hairdryer etc”. You are planning on a 24vdc fridge & thus not need the inverter on standby. This is an important part of your design criteria as inverters on standby will use up your battery power. @Tomthumb62 might chime in how he setup his, but I am a believer in less is more.

Here is the Cole’s Notes on that topic ?;

View attachment 168667



lol Thanks @sunshine_eggo for that comment, it makes me laugh every time I read it, as it is just that when someone says “it can be done” ?. Then my expectation is exactly that & I’m all “Yip Ya”

Running on eco mode saves us a ton of wasted idle draw. In our use case it works well. Our eco settings are highlighted in the below screenshot. We have no 120v loads under 33W, so anything we plug in will trigger the eco mode it power on the inverter, though we might have to wait a short bit for it to happen, but it’s no issue for us. Turn it down to seek every 5-10 seconds for less lag time.

I do not know a lot about the Transits. @HarryN might chime as he has Transit experience & knows about the smart alternator. He also would know about 12vdc to 24vdc B2B chargers. If you are near San Fran, also a great source of assistance.

Depending on your use & area, Alternator charging can be the way to go. We almost 100% charge our batteries by alternator.

At this point you have purchased items without knowing your design. I recommend you try to identify your use / needs, & we can vet your design here before you purchase more items. There will be some differences in opinions of course ,,, eg depending on the cost I would buy a BM712 smart over the Smart Shunt ,,, it might have some additional features down the road you might like

When I look at your 120vac loads, I believe you can have the inverter off typically unless the need arises “hairdryer etc”. You are planning on a 24vdc fridge & thus not need the inverter on standby. This is an important part of your design criteria as inverters on standby will use up your battery power. @Tomthumb62 might chime in how he setup his, but I am a believer in less is more.

Here is the Cole’s Notes on that topic ?;

View attachment 168667



lol Thanks @sunshine_eggo for that comment, it makes me laugh every time I read it, as it is just that when someone says “it can be done” ?. Then my expectation is exactly that & I’m all “Yip Ya”

Running on eco mode saves us a ton of wasted idle draw. In our use case it works well. Our eco settings are highlighted in the below screenshot. We have no 120v loads under 33W, so anything we plug in will trigger the eco mode it power on the inverter, though we might have to wait a short bit for it to happen, but it’s no issue for us. Turn it down to seek every 5-10 seconds for less lag time.

 

[Kayte]

I do not know a lot about the Transits. @HarryN might chime as he has Transit experience & knows about the smart alternator. He also would know about 12vdc to 24vdc B2B chargers. If you are near San Fran, also a great source of assistance.

Depending on your use & area, Alternator charging can be the way to go. We almost 100% charge our batteries by alternator.

At this point you have purchased items without knowing your design. I recommend you try to identify your use / needs, & we can vet your design here before you purchase more items. There will be some differences in opinions of course ,,, eg depending on the cost I would buy a BM712 smart over the Smart Shunt ,,, it might have some additional features down the road you might like

When I look at your 120vac loads, I believe you can have the inverter off typically unless the need arises “hairdryer etc”. You are planning on a 24vdc fridge & thus not need the inverter on standby. This is an important part of your design criteria as inverters on standby will use up your battery power. @Tomthumb62 might chime in how he setup his, but I am a believer in less is more.

Here is the Cole’s Notes on that topic ?;

View attachment 168667



lol Thanks @sunshine_eggo for that comment, it makes me laugh every time I read it, as it is just that when someone says “it can be done” ?. Then my expectation is exactly that & I’m all “Yip Ya”

So you're right, I don't know what my needs really are as I'm not on the road yet and experiencing traveling in the van. I don't plan on living in it but would like to build it with that capability. Initially it may be just week or two week trips that I hope to extend to several months trips all over the US and Canada.
I'm in PA so not the best for solar. I would like to spend a week or so in one place before moving on so alternator charging wouldn't benefit me while parked if that is the case but who knows, I may get itchy and want to get to the next place. And that could change too as I travel more.
I would like to have enough to be able to park in the shade when very hot.
I definitely did buy items too soon but I have them so will make the best of it with all the help and support of you all.

 

[RV8R]

So you're right, I don't know what my needs really are as I'm not on the road yet and experiencing traveling in the van. I don't plan on living in it but would like to build it with that capability. Initially it may be just week or two week trips that I hope to extend to several months trips all over the US and Canada.
I'm in PA so not the best for solar. I would like to spend a week or so in one place before moving on so alternator charging wouldn't benefit me if that is the case but who knows, I may get itchy and want to get to the next place. And that could change too as I travel more.
I would like to have enough to be able to park in the shade when very hot.
I definitely did buy items too soon but I have them so will make the best of it with all the help and support of you all.

When I first stumbled into this van building hobby, I floundered around a bit as I did not know our needs/wants. IMO, it is best to design for what you need now & hopefully design it so you can expand it later if your assumptions are to light or if your electrical needs increase in the future.

The biggest question IMO for all “Van Electrical Systems” is “How are Ya going to Recharge Your Batteries?”

Van Travel / Camping & especially if You are interested in self sufficiency & how long You can “Stay Out There” really comes down to what I call “All The Tanks”.

The Tanks are; Batteries, Fridge, Fresh Water, Grey, Toilet, Propane, Gasoline.

So, if you have a rough idea of the battery energy you assume you will use everyday & how many day out you want that will give you an idea of your rough battery capacity. Then You can answer “How are Ya going to Recharge your Batteries“.

So now it is time to figure out your design. You already have some items already, but I would hold tight buying other items until you finalize your design.

 

[RV8R]

This will be in a '22 Ford Transit 250 Cargo Van. I hadn't planned on alternator charging because my understanding is that it's hard on the alternator and I didn't upgrade the alternator when I purchased the van new. I'd also have to install a disconnect switch. Everyone seems to charge with the alternator so maybe I'm wrong. It would be nice to have that option. I'm in the US.
2 AC outlets 1 in garage, 1 in galley
Here is a list of load items. Some may not be used but including in case.
600wh 24v fridge
231wh Instant Pot 700w
144wh 8 LED puck lights 3w each
1wh 2 LED garage lights 3w each
24wh 2 Bed lights w USB
4.8wh H20 pump
2.5wh 2 exterior LED lights 5w each
160wh MaxAir Fan 56w high 2.4w low
240wh 3 personal fans w/lights 13.2w high 7.2w low
120wh phone charging 60w
180wh computer charging 40w
? 12v diesel heater 8amp startup, 2a running
? Rechargeable blender 30w
50wh hair blower 1400w

approx 1800wh round up to 2000wh
Diagram coming up as soon as I decipher all the info presented. Which I'm very, very grateful for.

So ,,, Daily consumption 1800Wh. That estimate might be a little high, but seems reasonable. Here is an idea of my recent use @ my Cabin which is recharged pretty much 100% Solar “North of The 49th”;





The low energy days are days that are unoccupied days. So my energy use is about 350Wh to 700Wh per day. Most of the stuff you listed but no hairdryer or inverter or InstaPot.

One difference is I have a Propane Furnace rather than the diesel you have planned. The propane should be more 12vdc efficient. It isn’t the 10amps diesel needs of startup so much, but the pump & diesel tend to not cycle, but kept on @ a low setting, this typically uses more electrical energy.

You might change your LED plans or use ,,, 6hrs a day use of the 8 puck when considering your other LED use seems high. You might alter your plans for fewer lights on all at once. We have 2 LED lights currently in our van “main ceiling” & “bed” ,,, I would estimate less than 50Wh per day for our use. A lot of it depends upon seasonal condition.

So The Cabin has 250Ah AGMs or 3000Wh. So maybe 4 days before needing to charge them up.

 

[Kayte]

I don't have windows in the van except cab and I do have the 4 rear puck lights (bed) on separate switch, so yeah, they might not be on much. I seldom use a hair blower now and probably won't use the instant pot but wanted to plan for those just in case.
This will be a whole new experience so don't really know my needs. Just trying to plan for the unknowns.
I'm not a campground person so plan on boondocking as much as possible so may not have use for shore power and may not travel in the winter months when sun is low. Traveling in winter though is still an unknown.

Forgot the 2 bunk awning windows we installed.

 

[Tomthumb62]

So ,,, Daily consumption 1800Wh. That estimate might be a little high, but seems reasonable. Here is an idea of my recent use @ my Cabin which is recharged pretty much 100% Solar “North of The 49th”;

View attachment 168943

View attachment 168944

The low energy days are days that are unoccupied days. So my energy use is about 350Wh to 700Wh per day. Most of the stuff you listed but no hairdryer or inverter or InstaPot.

One difference is I have a Propane Furnace rather than the diesel you have planned. The propane should be more 12vdc efficient. It isn’t the 10amps diesel needs of startup so much, but the pump & diesel tend to not cycle, but kept on @ a low setting, this typically uses more electrical energy.

You might change your LED plans or use ,,, 6hrs a day use of the 8 puck when considering your other LED use seems high. You might alter your plans for fewer lights on all at once. We have 2 LED lights currently in our van “main ceiling” & “bed” ,,, I would estimate less than 50Wh per day for our use. A lot of it depends upon seasonal condition.

So The Cabin has 250Ah AGMs or 3000Wh. So maybe 4 days before needing to charge them up.

LoL. A silly question for ya, how did you change the name of your MPPT to “cabin solar charger”? I can’t seem to find the setting of where to do that.

 

[RV8R]

LoL. A silly question for ya, how did you change the name of your MPPT to “cabin solar charger”? I can’t seem to find the setting of where to do that.

Like This;















Now @Tomthumb62 ,,, When I forget how to get there, You will have to remind me ?.

 

[RV8R]

I don't have windows in the van except cab and I do have the 4 rear puck lights (bed) on separate switch, so yeah, they might not be on much. I seldom use a hair blower now and probably won't use the instant pot but wanted to plan for those just in case.
This will be a whole new experience so don't really know my needs. Just trying to plan for the unknowns.
I'm not a campground person so plan on boondocking as much as possible so may not have use for shore power and may not travel in the winter months when sun is low. Traveling in winter though is still an unknown.

Hi @Kayte

Here is a “Load Chart” I created for a Member of The Promaster Forum. It is 12vdc & 120vac, but will give you the idea & you can change it for 24vdc or add a separate section for 24vdc.



After I created this, I think it needs another line item under the Battery Size Category which would be “Inverter Standby” energy needed.


Judging from your post above, IMO your daily energy use will be less than the 1800Wh.

In planning your system, I would take advantage of Alternator & Solar charging. A dual charger I like is the Kisae 1250 but it is 12vdc to 12vdc IIRC. @HarryN might have a good 12vdc to 24vdc charger recommendation ?‍.

I typically like Victron & Blue Sea electrical gear & I tend to stick to Marine Grade items “Ancon Wire” and misc bits & bites.

I can help you with your design, once you have picked out all your component.

Your “thread” name is a bit understated, as IMO yo need help creating a wiring diagram, load calculation, component choices, etc. I think you will get all that help here ?.

 

[RV8R]

What I have so far. I need to figure out the fuses and appropriate shore charger and everything in between.
https://a.co/d/9vj4U4W solar charge controller
https://a.co/d/hsFn9ak remote meter for CC
https://a.co/d/iOivs02 3000w inverter
https://a.co/d/7AVzlUG circuit breaker
https://a.co/d/7gZZhYe converter
https://a.co/d/6Kh4wUT multimeter, 100a shunt
https://a.co/d/5TaafRb 2 busbars 1 for + and 1 for -
https://a.co/d/crsqVjC on/off switch
https://a.co/d/aQVAWV7 distribution fuse block
I have the 10g pv cables

Hi @Kayte ,,, So me in 2018 ,,, Guilty As Charged of buying things & stuff for my 1st Van electrical build by following all the Cool Cats on the Internet. My Victron Multi which to this day was a stupid purchase for my here for my 1st Van in 2018 ,,, It is still a dust collecting paper weight & never installed in anything ( I will probably throw it in my Cabin just because I have it & it might be of some sporadic use up there );



So The Purpose of This Post;

12vdc / 24vdc / 120vac ,,, I know you have gone down the 24vdc path ,,, but ,,, assuming Lithium & your proposed loads your inverter use is minimal & your 12vdc is the majority & you can get decent 12vdc fridges with the DB35 compressor ( very efficient ), & with LP4 you are going to have a constant voltage right to nearing depletion ,,, as the fridge is your major appliance & most other RV appliances are 12vdc, you might consider dropping the 24vdc.

@HarryN is a 24vdc & 48vdc advocate ,,, for all the right reasons. I like it also, but it exceeds my minimalistic needs/wants. Less energy transformation means more efficiency IMO. So Harry has rightfully so labeled me a RV 12vdc & appliance enthusiast ?. It works well for me, but I am a less is more person. So Caveat ,,, YMMV. I realize you have purchased items so carry on or change at this time, however for a small cost & additional build weight, I would “Size The Wire” etc for 12vdc if it is a slight increase in wire size. That way down the road if you decide to change to 12vdc it can be as simple as a minor equipment change or splitting whatever batteries you might have from series to parallel (depending upon your final design).

I like the “Blue Sea” listed above & “The Wire Barn” Calculators;

Wire Size Calculator

 

[Tomthumb62]

but ,,, assuming Lithium & your proposed loads your inverter use is minimal & your 12vdc is the majority & you can get decent 12vdc fridges with the DB35 compressor ( very efficient ), & with LP4 you are going to have a constant voltage right to nearing depletion ,,, as the fridge is your major appliance

We paid under $300 for a midsize 7.4 cubic foot 120v fridge. The 12v Victron 12/1200 inverter is more than enough power for it and extremely efficient in eco mode. We have no other major loads. No A/C or heating. All cooking and heating is via propane. If we had more room for more than the 600W of panels we have, and more space for more battery, we might consider adding a 120v heating element to the propane water heater (about $50) and adding radiant floor heat that would only run when the battery is in float, but we don’t have need for any of that. I think we could get away with a 375-500W Victron inverter for the fridge, but having the 1000W is big enough to run a full size vacuum or most power tools for short runs (I’ve tried with good results).