A Honda inverter generator, an Ecoflow Delta Pro, and a tiny offgrid cabin in the woods. Next... solar! But how?

[melimelo]

Hi everyone. I am so happy to be part of this forum. I have been geeking out on everything solar for the past 3 years, with a long-term plan of supplying a modest amount of electricity to my 3 season offgrid cabin in the woods. I first bought a Honda inverter generator, and then last year an Ecoflow Delta Pro. The cabin is on a lake in the near north of Ontario. It is 500sqft, 100yo, with no wiring, and an east-west facing roof, with trees nearby. My power needs are modest: a solar fridge, 10 bulbs, a few laptops and a TV screen. It is used in sping, summer and fall.

I have a limited budget, so I can not purchase a full solar setup yet. I didn't want to run a generator 24/7 while there (emissions, kills the lakeside quiet vibe) so I bought the Ecoflow Delta Pro last year, which can be charged with the generator in 3 hours and gives me about 2-3 days of power. It sits in the kitchen with extensions cords to lamps, laptops, and a direct cable to the solar fridge. Having to unplug everything and haul it outside to charge it every two days is not fun, and it means we have to empty the fridge and unplug everything everytime we leave for more than 24h. I have about $2000 Cdn budgeted each year to move toward my PV setup. I know that the Delta Pro won't meet our needs in the long run (Solar Charging: 1600W Max, 11-150V, 15A Max), but I want to use it for as long as possible, seeing as it is an expensive investment. It can be connected to an electrical panel but there are many considerations and limitations to this.

So... my question (finally!) is: What next? Get the place wired with an electrical panel and transfer switch to hook up the Delta Pro? Get solar panels on the roof to recharge the Delta Pro and use the generator on cloudy days? Which one should I do first? Any suggestions, experiences and/or tips are welcome. TIA!

 

[wpns]

Having to unplug everything and haul it outside to charge it every two days is not fun

Why do you have to haul it outside? Can you run an extension cord from the (outside) generator?

I’d start by adding solar panels (on the roof) for the EcoFlow

 

[42OhmsPA]

Welcome to forum.
Looks like a great location.

Is a ground mount possible?
Are you opposed to ordering from Alibaba?
Is the cabin temp controlled in the winter?

My first thoughts are sell the ecoflow, buy a 24V 3000W or 5000W AIO (~$600 max delivered), buy/build a 24V battery (chemistry TBD), finally pick up ~ half dozen "residential" panels.

 

[melimelo]

Why do you have to haul it outside? Can you run an extension cord from the (outside) generator?

I’d start by adding solar panels (on the roof) for the EcoFlow

Thanks! The Delta Pro manual says to use the charging cord only no extensions. The charging cord is short.

 

[melimelo]

Welcome to forum.
Looks like a great location.

Is a ground mount possible?
Are you opposed to ordering from Alibaba?
Is the cabin temp controlled in the winter?

My first thoughts are sell the ecoflow, buy a 24V 3000W or 5000W AIO (~$600 max delivered), buy/build a 24V battery (chemistry TBD), finally pick up ~ half dozen "residential" panels.

Thanks! Only a roof mount is possible with all the trees around the cabin, but my needs are less than 1.5kw per day, so roof mount should be okay spring to fall. The cabin is unheated in winter, and the property is inaccessible. All batteries and sensitive equipment have to come home with me in late fall.

 

[seneysolar]

Sweet cabin!!

My vote would be feeding the delta pro with PV. Panels are cheap right now.

Is cabin wired at all? An inverter can feed the same way a generator does to the house wiring.

 

[melimelo]

Sweet cabin!!

My vote would be feeding the delta pro with PV. Panels are cheap right now.

Is cabin wired at all? An inverter can feed the same way a generator does to the house wiring.

Thanks! Yeah she's a beauty, warts and all. No wiring whatsoever.

 

[wpns]

Thanks! The Delta Pro manual says to use the charging cord only no extensions. The charging cord is short.

I get why they'd say that, but a hefty extension cord would be indistinguishable from a crappy generator, and you've got a good generator...

 

[42OhmsPA]

Thanks! Only a roof mount is possible with all the trees around the cabin, but my needs are less than 1.5kw per day, so roof mount should be okay spring to fall. The cabin is unheated in winter, and the property is inaccessible. All batteries and sensitive equipment have to come home with me in late fall.

Seeing your loads are so low I gave bad advice.. I agree with others, panel up the eco (stay under max Voc). Parallel strings E / W.
A small sub panel could be used to eliminate the extension cords but if it isn't broke...

 

[jimf909]

Nice cabin! And an even nicer deck? It looks like an ideal arrangement.

Quick answer: add some panels to significantly reduce generator run time this summer. Noise, refueling, moving the Delta, ugh.

Longer term: design the system you need 3-5 years from now (more people? more consumption? more stuff? tools? etc.) and buy to meet those needs v. buying multiple iterations as the system grows. Labor $ can consume your budget in a flash so learning to DIY will extend that budget.

Enjoy the dream!

 

[seneysolar]

I wired my cabin with mc cable. Flex metal conduit can be made to look decent on the outside of the wall if you are artistic with the routing. Its also mouse-proof. Id get everything wired to a single breaker panel that can be fed with your generator or future solar/battery inverter.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

There is a budget, so "yearly budget" = "phases"

Phase 1: initiate wiring the place, meeting code in your area as best can, without necessarily invoking (expensive) building permits and fully licensed electricians. Find yourself a journeyman electrician or equivalent in your area. Put in a reliance service panel with built-in transfer switch for genny ... has extra slots for wiring the cabin loads. fit in one whole-house surge protector, and a breaker or two for what you've got right now. electrician will wire from generator (shed) to panel, and from panel to your devices. This keeps your 100 y.o. cabin from burning down one day. Gen continues to charge solar gen unit, and you are still utilizing everything you have right now.

Future phase: Consider building an appropriate generator shed, to protect it from elements and noise-dampen it. plenty of youtube vids on this. Plan it out, and ensure room for future site fuel (propane tank & delivery service).

Future phases: more circuit wiring.

Phase 2: add battery-bank of lifepo4, inverter/charger; you'll need to pick a "reference voltage" of 12v, 24v, or 48v, but phase 1 gives you more time to learn about it all. Now, solar gen is removed and relegated to camping/road-trips (or sold). inverter & battery-bank are wired to server panel, and generator charges the battery-bank thru inverter.

Future phase: site fuel (propane tank) & service.

Future phase: replace gen with one that "auto-starts" and is tied in to a site power fuel (propane). A westinghouse inv-gen, for example. No more trekking thru the snow, rain, or bears. No more fuel handling.

Phase 3: add solar panels to a ground mount, and mppt to solar gear. Solar panels are reducing the gen runtime to a "backup" phase, but gen is still there if ever you have "big loads", like adding a microwave or small washer/dryer, etc.

Note that phase 1 could be done with a hefty power cord (contractor-class), but for safety, nothing beats wiring in a service panel from home to gen shed. Contractor gens/cords are for temp power to build the home, although many try to use them for other reasons.

Hope this helps ...

 

[melimelo]

Nice cabin! And an even nicer deck? It looks like an ideal arrangement.

Quick answer: add some panels to significantly reduce generator run time this summer. Noise, refueling, moving the Delta, ugh.

Longer term: design the system you need 3-5 years from now (more people? more consumption? more stuff? tools? etc.) and buy to meet those needs v. buying multiple iterations as the system grows. Labor $ can consume your budget in a flash so learning to DIY will extend that budget.

Enjoy the dream!

Thanks! Great suggestions.

 

[melimelo]

There is a budget, so "yearly budget" = "phases"

Phase 1: initiate wiring the place, meeting code in your area as best can, without necessarily invoking (expensive) building permits and fully licensed electricians. Find yourself a journeyman electrician or equivalent in your area. Put in a reliance service panel with built-in transfer switch for genny ... has extra slots for wiring the cabin loads. fit in one whole-house surge protector, and a breaker or two for what you've got right now. electrician will wire from generator (shed) to panel, and from panel to your devices. This keeps your 100 y.o. cabin from burning down one day. Gen continues to charge solar gen unit, and you are still utilizing everything you have right now.

Future phase: Consider building an appropriate generator shed, to protect it from elements and noise-dampen it. plenty of youtube vids on this. Plan it out, and ensure room for future site fuel (propane tank & delivery service).

Future phases: more circuit wiring.

Phase 2: add battery-bank of lifepo4, inverter/charger; you'll need to pick a "reference voltage" of 12v, 24v, or 48v, but phase 1 gives you more time to learn about it all. Now, solar gen is removed and relegated to camping/road-trips (or sold). inverter & battery-bank are wired to server panel, and generator charges the battery-bank thru inverter.

Future phase: site fuel (propane tank) & service.

Future phase: replace gen with one that "auto-starts" and is tied in to a site power fuel (propane). A westinghouse inv-gen, for example. No more trekking thru the snow, rain, or bears. No more fuel handling.

Phase 3: add solar panels to a ground mount, and mppt to solar gear. Solar panels are reducing the gen runtime to a "backup" phase, but gen is still there if ever you have "big loads", like adding a microwave or small washer/dryer, etc.

Note that phase 1 could be done with a hefty power cord (contractor-class), but for safety, nothing beats wiring in a service panel from home to gen shed. Contractor gens/cords are for temp power to build the home, although many try to use them for other reasons.

Hope this helps ...

Thanks for taking time to write such a through reply! Very good ideas and things to keep in mind. I really appreciate this! I will copy to a document so I can keep it on file as I go through my phases. I would like it to be a less temporary set up eventually, and I definitely do not want to burn the cabin down! The property is in an unorganized township so there are no building permits requires. That said I do want the work to be to code.

 

[Doggydogworld]

Thanks! The Delta Pro manual says to use the charging cord only no extensions. The charging cord is short.

The company has to say that or people will do dumb things and start fires. I'd just get a properly sized extension cord. You can put the cord in conduit if you want to be extra safe. Or use Romex and an outlet box instead of an extension cord.

Second thing I'd do is get a single solar panel and measure actual output on typical days. PVWatts is a good starting point, but your location and shading situation is unique. I'm also a little confused about your "east-west facing roof". Would the panels go on the roof surface that's visible in the picture? Does that surface point east, west or south?

Gorgeous property and cabin, btw. You mention a bathroom fan, but no well pump. Do you have gravity-fed water?

 

[melimelo]

I wired my cabin with mc cable. Flex metal conduit can be made to look decent on the outside of the wall if you are artistic with the routing. Its also mouse-proof. Id get everything wired to a single breaker panel that can be fed with your generator or future solar/battery inverter.

Thanks for the helpful reply!

 

[melimelo]

The company has to say that or people will do dumb things and start fires. I'd just get a properly sized extension cord. You can put the cord in conduit if you want to be extra safe. Or use Romex and an outlet box instead of an extension cord.

Second thing I'd do is get a single solar panel and measure actual output on typical days. PVWatts is a good starting point, but your location and shading situation is unique. I'm also a little confused about your "east-west facing roof". Would the panels go on the roof surface that's visible in the picture? Does that surface point east, west or south?

Gorgeous property and cabin, btw. You mention a bathroom fan, but no well pump. Do you have gravity-fed water?

Thanks for the helpful reply and for the compliment! The roof faces east. The hill behind the cabin where the trees are is to the south, so no south facing panels for me . I pump water from the lake with a generator to fill the two water tanks under the cabin. Then a small on demand solar pump to get the water to the sink. I don't have a bathroom yet, but I will next year, and I will need a fan for it.

 

[melimelo]

The company has to say that or people will do dumb things and start fires. I'd just get a properly sized extension cord. You can put the cord in conduit if you want to be extra safe. Or use Romex and an outlet box instead of an extension cord.

Second thing I'd do is get a single solar panel and measure actual output on typical days. PVWatts is a good starting point, but your location and shading situation is unique. I'm also a little confused about your "east-west facing roof". Would the panels go on the roof surface that's visible in the picture? Does that surface point east, west or south?

Gorgeous property and cabin, btw. You mention a bathroom fan, but no well pump. Do you have gravity-fed water?

I get why they'd say that, but a hefty extension cord would be indistinguishable from a crappy generator, and you've got a good generator...

Good point.

 

[wpns]

I’ve been known to make an extension cord from a roll of 12/3 electrical wire with a plug (in your case, to fit the big plug on your generator) on one end, and a double duplex (metal) box with 20 amp outlet on the other. This really is indistinguishable from house wiring.

 

[DarrylG]

Thanks! The Delta Pro manual says to use the charging cord only no extensions. The charging cord is short.

As others are saying, the company is just covering their butts by saying that. People may plug their Ecoflow into a 18gauge lamp cord and cause a fire. I have used a 50 foot, 12 gauge cord to charge mine without an issue. Bump up to a 10 gauge cord if you have a long run. Alternately you could lower the charge setting on your Delta Pro to pull less power. (But of course you are trying to run your generator as least as possible.)

I personally would recommend getting solar for your Delta Pro. I have 1000w of solar on my eastern facing roof at 30degrees latitude and It powers my fridge and lights 24/7. I do have grid power as a backup and generator if needed.

In your case, I would overpanel to have more solar capacity than needed, then your production would be good even on cloudy days.