All-In-One Inverter advice

[Dennis 1]

Hi All,
I'm looking into getting around a 3000W All-In-One Inverter from MPP, Growatt, or a EG4. So I'm Looking for advice from anyone who has or had one. I think I'm leaning toward the EG4 but I really don't know which one will be a better choice.

My next decision will be a Battery
I have something else I'm wrestling with what is the real advantage of going with a 24V or a 48V system it seems to me I always hear the wire size seems to be the issue. What I don't understand is the 24V is 200AH and the 48V is 100AH (24V is 25.6V (24V) 5.12kWh with 200AH and the 48V is 51.2V (48V) 5.12kWh with 100AH)

What in your opinion is the real difference between the EG4-LL and the EG4-LifePower 4. I do see where the LL series has a 5 year longer warranty and a battery monitor screen is there anything else. Do you also think one battery will be enough to power one of the all-in-one inverters I'm looking at?

Any advice would be very helpful and appreciated.
Thank You

 

[Rednecktek]

Hi All,
I'm looking into getting around a 3000W All-In-One Inverter from MPP, Growatt, or a EG4. So I'm Looking for advice from anyone who has or had one. I think I'm leaning toward the EG4 but I really don't know which one will be a better choice.

They all have pro's and con's. If you're looking in the 3Kw range your choices are limited as I think each brand really only offers 1 in that size range. The MPP are very tried & true but only give you 2400w at 24v, the Growatts give you a little more at 3000w at 24v, and the EG4's have better surge capability but higher standby draw. At 48v the MPP and Growatt are pretty much identical so go with whichever is on sale at the time. The EG4 you get better surge for higher standby draw for about the same price.

As long as space isn't an issue, go straight to 48v right out the gate. It will allow you an upgrade path in the future as well as make the rest of the install easier.

My next decision will be a Battery
I have something else I'm wrestling with what is the real advantage of going with a 24V or a 48V system it seems to me I always hear the wire size seems to be the issue. What I don't understand is the 24V is 200AH and the 48V is 100AH (24V is 25.6V (24V) 5.12kWh with 200AH and the 48V is 51.2V (48V) 5.12kWh with 100AH)

The advantage is the wire size and copper costs along with the solar capacity each unit can handle. Since wires are specced on the amperage rating you have to carry having a higher voltage calls for thinner (and cheaper and easier to manage) wires. Drawing 2400w from a 24v bank is 100a and a 4AWG wire, whereas that same 2400w of draw on a 48v system would be 50a which is 8AWG wire which is cheaper and easier to handle. Add in to that the fuse requirements are cut in half as well.

As to the battery capacity, your 24v rackmount and your 48v rackmount all have the same number of cells inside, it's just a matter of how they're wired together. 100Ah @ 48v is exactly the same as 200Ah @ 24v so it's really the same capacity inside the box.

What in your opinion is the real difference between the EG4-LL and the EG4-LifePower 4. I do see where the LL series has a 5 year longer warranty and a battery monitor screen is there anything else. Do you also think one battery will be enough to power one of the all-in-one inverters I'm looking at?

The question you have to ask yourself is if the difference on the warranty is really worth the cost once you calculate in shipping and your time. Sure, the screen is cute but how often are you going to be digging into the exact readings of your screen and individual cells and such rather than just turning the system on and leaving it on? These cells are supposedly rated for 10+ years of daily cycling, if they last the first 5 years they're going to most likely last the next 5 years as well, albeit at a reduced capacity that the warranty doesn't cover anyways.

Any advice would be very helpful and appreciated.
Thank You

You'll get plenty of that, don't worry!

 

[Dennis 1]

I really want to thank you I think after hearing your reasoning and thinking about it I will be going with the 48V system. I watched Will reviewing the EG4 All-In-One inverter, a little bit more pricy but it does sound good to me. I want this for a fridge and a freezer one at 5A and one at 6A both at 115V. I'm in the process right now of checking both of them with a Kill-a-Watt meter to see where they are at.

 

[MichaelK]

Why select an AiO at all? Really, the best electronics are put into the component solar equipment, so if you want to build a top quality tier-one system, go with components made by Magnum, Outback, Samlex, Schneider, and Victron.

 

[Dennis 1]

Why select an AiO at all? Really, the best electronics are put into the component solar equipment, so if you want to build a top quality tier-one system, go with components made by Magnum, Outback, Samlex, Schneider, and Victron.

Good point, something to think about.

 

[David Collins]

Why select an AiO at all? Really, the best electronics are put into the component solar equipment, so if you want to build a top quality tier-one system, go with components made by Magnum, Outback, Samlex, Schneider, and Victron.

This raises a question I've been unsure of, I think relevant to Dennis's decisions here -

What are the real advantages of or disadvantages when it comes to communications between components?

Say one had the choice between using an Eg4 48v 100ah battery, a Victron SmartSolar MPPT charge controller, and a Samlex 3000w pure sine inverter - or - an Eg4 48v 100ah battery and the Eg4 3000w All In One charger/inverter. Would there be any notable advantage (perhaps things like long term battery health, preventing it from going in to bulk charge mode when it should be in float) from having more complete communication between the components, or potential disadvantages from different systems not being able to communicate with each other?

 

[Dennis 1]

This raises a question I've been unsure of, I think relevant to Dennis's decisions here -

What are the real advantages of or disadvantages when it comes to communications between components?

Say one had the choice between using an Eg4 48v 100ah battery, a Victron SmartSolar MPPT charge controller, and a Samlex 3000w pure sine inverter - or - an Eg4 48v 100ah battery and the Eg4 3000w All In One charger/inverter. Would there be any notable advantage (perhaps things like long term battery health, preventing it from going in to bulk charge mode when it should be in float) from having more complete communication between the components, or potential disadvantages from different systems not being able to communicate with each other?

Will Prowse did a video with the EG4 3000W inverter and talked about using the EG4 48V 100AH battery and how they communicated with each other it's good to watch. I know one disadvantage I have thought about is having all your eggs in one basket and what if something happens to one of the components. I do look at the price of a Victron 250/100 CC, a 3000W outback Inverter, a 40A lithium charger, and even a Moes ATS (I have one now and really happy with it). This is all things that I'm considering.

 

[David Collins]

Will Prowse did a video with the EG4 3000W inverter and talked about using the EG4 48V 100AH battery and how they communicated with each other it's good to watch. I know one disadvantage I have thought about is having all your eggs in one basket and what if something happens to one of the components. I do look at the price of a Victron 250/100 CC, a 3000W outback Inverter, a 40A lithium charger, and even a Moes ATS (I have one now and really happy with it). This is all things that I'm considering.

I watched that video, but have still never hear it clearly articulated as to what the major downsides are to not having direct communications.
Especially if one has no interests in dashboards or data logging or even caring to know what the battery capacity is at any given time - just in terms of automated performance, I'm still unclear what drawbacks one might be left vulnerable to without this communication.

Will everything perform just as well aside from not providing the user information from a single access point? Will battery health suffer because a charge controller might regularly be pushing more charge on it than it needs, or will a Victron MPPT paired with a Victron Smart Battery Sense module on the Eg4 battery perform just as well as the Eg4 All in One? Would you need to add a Victron Smart Shunt to make the Victron MPPT perform equally well with the Eg4 battery, or would it still fall short of how well the Eg4 All in One would perform with direct communication?

Most of the discussion on communication seems centered around dashboards and user monitoring and data logging, but it still seems unclear to me what the benefits/drawbacks are related only to automatic performance.

 

[Dennis 1]

I watched that video, but have still never hear it clearly articulated as to what the major downsides are to not having direct communications.
Especially if one has no interests in dashboards or data logging or even caring to know what the battery capacity is at any given time - just in terms of automated performance, I'm still unclear what drawbacks one might be left vulnerable to without this communication.

Will everything perform just as well aside from not providing the user information from a single access point? Will battery health suffer because a charge controller might regularly be pushing more charge on it than it needs, or will a Victron MPPT paired with a Victron Smart Battery Sense module on the Eg4 battery perform just as well as the Eg4 All in One? Would you need to add a Victron Smart Shunt to make the Victron MPPT perform equally well with the Eg4 battery, or would it still fall short of how well the Eg4 All in One would perform with direct communication?

Most of the discussion on communication seems centered around dashboards and user monitoring and data logging, but it still seems unclear to me what the benefits/drawbacks are related only to automatic performance.

I just started out looking for advice, you just seem to have a lot of questions you want answered.

 

[David Collins]

I just started out looking for advice, you just seem to have a lot of questions you want answered.

My apologies for overstepping - I assumed with the issue coming up of why to get an AiO at all, that the issues I raised would have been of key pertinence.

 

[Redacted]

I just put in a MPP LVX6048WP and a jakiper 48v 100AH "server battery" initial install was done by and electrician in my area. It runs a "critical services panel" the electrician was interested in doing the all in one set up and i figured the price was right.

it has taken some tweaking and the software for the MPP may just be the worst I have ever seen. I purchased solar assistant and all the software problems went away.

So far the system seems pretty good. I have not had an all grid down scenario but from my testing, it seems to be alright and can handle the 4.5kw spike for my pump and dishwasher. Time will tell.

 

[nc73]

I just put in a MPP LVX6048WP and a jakiper 48v 100AH "server battery" initial install was done by and electrician in my area. It runs a "critical services panel" the electrician was interested in doing the all in one set up and i figured the price was right.

it has taken some tweaking and the software for the MPP may just be the worst I have ever seen. I purchased solar assistant and all the software problems went away.

So far the system seems pretty good. I have not had an all grid down scenario but from my testing, it seems to be alright and can handle the 4.5kw spike for my pump and dishwasher. Time will tell.

Nothing wrong with the software, you just can't run it on a rasp pi like solar assistant.

 

[Redacted]

Nothing wrong with the software, you just can't run it on a rasp pi like solar assistant.

Well that ui was horrific and it would not connect to a linux or windows pc using the same cable as I have running on my pi which does connect to solar assistant. May just be my experience but the software they provided was essentially useless for me.

 

[Dennis 1]

I just put in a MPP LVX6048WP and a jakiper 48v 100AH "server battery" initial install was done by and electrician in my area. It runs a "critical services panel" the electrician was interested in doing the all in one set up and i figured the price was right.

it has taken some tweaking and the software for the MPP may just be the worst I have ever seen. I purchased solar assistant and all the software problems went away.

So far the system seems pretty good. I have not had an all grid down scenario but from my testing, it seems to be alright and can handle the 4.5kw spike for my pump and dishwasher. Time will tell.

If I could ask what is "solar assistant"

 

[Redacted]

its a software that reads the modbus messages from the inverter and displays in a great web ui. it also allows you to change settings etc. I found out about it on this forum.

Real-time solar monitoring from a Raspberry Pi | SolarAssistant Software

Real-time charts, analytics and power management from via a Raspberry pi - the most powerful, cost effective device on the planet.

solar-assistant.io

I am very happy with it, I have it integrated into my home assistant also, which is very helpful for automation

Home Assistant

Open source home automation that puts local control and privacy first. Powered by a worldwide community of tinkerers and DIY enthusiasts. Perfect to run on a Raspberry Pi or a local server.

www.home-assistant.io

 

[wattmatters]

Most of the discussion on communication seems centered around dashboards and user monitoring and data logging, but it still seems unclear to me what the benefits/drawbacks are related only to automatic performance.

It's a matter of what you need your system to do. For those who want/need a "set and forget" style system, then there are almost no drawbacks, provided they have a means to at least check system health every so often.

But that doesn't mean there are not advantages to having the comms, and many applications require data.

It's a bit OT but I have home and system automations which take advantage of the data and system control these communications systems provide. It also provides the ability to do things remotely as well.

e.g. we are going through a flooding weather event right now, so I have "Storm Mode" automations in play. In this instance the typical "set and forget" behaviour is the opposite of what want the system to do in these circumstances.

I also have some load management automations which take advantage of the data and others to optimise use of existing grid and off-grid PV capacity.

Why select an AiO at all? Really, the best electronics are put into the component solar equipment, so if you want to build a top quality tier-one system, go with components made by Magnum, Outback, Samlex, Schneider, and Victron.

Simplicity and cost for people starting out on this journey.

Top quality is not always necessary, purchase what is suitable for your use case. That might be the best kit money can buy, or it might be a cheap clone to tide you over for a while when money is tight. Or somewhere in between.

And space. I have enough space for an AIO and batteries. I don't have much space for separate inverters, chargers, etc.

 

[Dennis 1]

It's a matter of what you need your system to do. For those who want/need a "set and forget" style system, then there are almost no drawbacks, provided they have a means to at least check system health every so often.

But that doesn't mean there are not advantages to having the comms, and many applications require data.

It's a bit OT but I have home and system automations which take advantage of the data and system control these communications systems provide. It also provides the ability to do things remotely as well.

e.g. we are going through a flooding weather event right now, so I have "Storm Mode" automations in play. In this instance the typical "set and forget" behaviour is the opposite of what want the system to do in these circumstances.

I also have some load management automations which take advantage of the data and others to optimise use of existing grid and off-grid PV capacity.


Simplicity and cost for people starting out on this journey.

Top quality is not always necessary, purchase what is suitable for your use case. That might be the best kit money can buy, or it might be a cheap clone to tide you over for a while when money is tight. Or somewhere in between.

And space. I have enough space for an AIO and batteries. I don't have much space for separate inverters, chargers, etc.

This whole post started out with me want this for a fridge and a freezer one at 5A and one at 6A both at 115V. I'm in the process right now of checking both of them with a Kill-a-Watt meter to see where they are at.

I have a Epever CC, a 2000W inverter, a Victron 12/1200 inverter, 3-100 lithium batteries. I know I may need more panels I only have 6-100Wpanels now it is all at 12V.

I want to go with a 48V Server rack battery and a 48V All-In-One inverter to run the fridge and freezer

 

[Redacted]

This whole post started out with me want this for a fridge and a freezer one at 5A and one at 6A both at 115V. I'm in the process right now of checking both of them with a Kill-a-Watt meter to see where they are at.

I have a Epever CC, a 2000W inverter, a Victron 12/1200 inverter, 3-100 lithium batteries. I know I may need more panels I only have 6-100Wpanels now it is all at 12V.

I want to go with a 48V Server rack battery and a 48V All-In-One inverter to run the fridge and freezer

Fridge, freezers, pump, my office, dishwasher by chance on the same circuit as my propane stove. The mpp can run it all. I have 4x450 panels, pv can get me ~2kw peak right now. My load at absolute peak is 4.5kw. I am going to add 8 more panels down the road and hopefully another 5kw storage

 

[koppted]

I just put in a MPP LVX6048WP and a jakiper 48v 100AH "server battery" initial install was done by and electrician in my area. It runs a "critical services panel" the electrician was interested in doing the all in one set up and i figured the price was right.

it has taken some tweaking and the software for the MPP may just be the worst I have ever seen. I purchased solar assistant and all the software problems went away.

So far the system seems pretty good. I have not had an all grid down scenario but from my testing, it seems to be alright and can handle the 4.5kw spike for my pump and dishwasher. Time will tell.

Are you able to access all the settings that are available on the MPP software? like "parallel for output" "wide AC input"

 

[Darren67-72]

Quick note, I have a full a communication system. Major advantages to me are; it does not require constant attention, the system keeps all 6 batteries in balance, it does NOT allow a low battery (if unable to keep balanced due to use type selected) to shut off due to low state of charge, it shows battery bank soc and allows for a higher capacity usage of the pack.
Some of these features I definitely would not live without.
I also own a much better quality inverter, that does not have the communications, and I just don't use it for this reason.