Aluminum Cased Prismatic vs Fortune cells (200 Ah)

[HectorV]

Hello, I'm new to the fotum and taking on the challenge of building a portable, off-the grid box unit made out of aluminum square tubing and plywood. This open container will have the batteries mounted on the bottom and inverter and solar MPPT mounted on top (similar to off-the grid box shown in Will Prowse's video). This portable unit will be be used in my travel trailer, family outings, and to power my fridge during power outages. I want it portable for these other applications but will remain in the travel trailer( ~90% of the time) and be used a dozen times throughout the year here in CA. I plan to add about 200W of solar panels to the roof and anticipate the unit be charged primarily from the panels. I anticipate this unit will be between 50-65 lbs will be mostly stored in my large compartment in my travel trailer will be subjected to road vibrations. I plan to put dense, thin foam on the base of the batteries to help limit vibrations but not sure if one type of cell my be more durable than another with regards to vibrations and my application. Currently, I am torn between the aluminum cased prismatic cells and the fortune cells (see attached links) but the price difference of $300 and weight for 200 Ah has me leaning me toward the prismatic because I'm going over my budget and want to keep cost and weight down. I am about to pull the trigger on these batteries but would like input from the forum. Any input is much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

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[HRTKD]

My setup will be permanent in my RV. I'm watching the weight of all the components and trying to get the best for my money, while not overloading my trailer. Since I'm replacing a set of dual 6v Trojan T-105 (flooded lead acid) batteries, and replacing it with Lithium, it's quite easy to stay within the weight of the existing components.

I'm going with the 280ah cells instead of the 100 ah cells. I have limited space and the 280ah cells give me more usable energy for the given space.

 

[HectorV]

Yes. I hear you about watching the weight because with my portable unit, I'm going to carrying the thing occasionally. My budget keeps me closer to 200Ah but that is great the you can do larger cells.

Currently, I am torn between the aluminum cased prismatic cells and the fortune cells but the price difference of $300 and weight for 200 Ah has me leaning me toward the prismatic but my major concern right now is the prismatic aluminum cased cells ability to handle vibrations in my travel trailer but I do plan to put some dense, thin foam underneath to help with that. Hopefully some folks will chime in and let me know there experience with the prismatic cells in a travel trailer. Ready to pull the trigger on my purchase but looking for some feedback.

 

[nebster]

I'm confused about what you're comparing.

The "Fortune" cells are made by Frey Battery, and they are aluminum shell prismatics. (But your link does not go directly to those.) You can buy them directly from overseas and trade time for money, if you want.

The 190Ah cells in your other link are also aluminum shell prismatics.

I use Frey 100Ah cells in my RV, and they work great. They are standing on a thin sheet of neoprene, for the same reason you describe, and they have about a three inch tall rim of sheet steel around them at the bottom to hold them in place. 30 months in with no issues.

 

[HectorV]

Sorry, if I didn't state that correctly. Yes, I guess the fortune cells encased in hard plastic and are aluminum shell prismatic cells. I saw a video where Will said the Fortune cells (Al cased prismatics) were durable well, handle vibrations and have sturdy battery posts. Top of the line but HEAVY,

The Aluminum cased 190 Ah aluminum shell prismatics are lighter but I've not seen any mention of how durable they are and if they could handle being in a travel trailer that will bounce along the freeway. I plan to protect the cell with a thin, dense foam on the bottom. So my main question has to do if anyone knows about how durable they are and if they could be used in an travel trailer situation. I know that the aluminum shell prismatic that are sold on "alliexpress" are a great bargain and will pull the trigger in the next few days, but I'm just looking for some feed back on durability.

Thanks for your help.

 

[monty]

How do you figure they are lighter ?? Fortune 100ah = 5.8 lbs, 190ah you listed are 4 +/- 0.1 KG = 8.8 lbs +/-

Never mind -- got it. Fortune 17.2 ah/lb and 190ah = 21.6 ah/lb so lighter..

 

[nebster]

Okay, I see.

There aren't a lot of folks who are going to have both the Frey and one of the newer, lighter cells for comparison. Even fewer with long term RV data to share with you, and just observing them from the outside they pretty much look similar.

Where you do see a big difference is the Frey terminals -- they're much more substantial (and male-r) than most of the others. That doesn't come for free, as you noticed when looking at the density numbers.

Another thing that I've seen people demonstrate with several of these newer, lighter aluminum shell cells is that they expand at 100%. The Frey cells do not expand at 100%, although it's probably still not a good idea to run your batteries that way when you could just run them at 95% and avoid the issue entirely.

On the whole, the alternate cells are much cheaper and denser than Frey, so I think that outweighs whatever small mechanical advantage Frey may have for most applications. You could buy more than two sets of the lighter-weight cells for the price of Frey in medium volume.

Now, if everyone starts to see their 280Ah EVE cells fail prematurely next year, then obviously that would suck. But no one really has much long term performance data on these newer cells yet.

 

[HectorV]

Nebster, I look at the fortune/frey cells and the durable terminals to be top of the line. In two videos, Will mentioned that these are durable and handle vibrations. So I look at those as top of the line and I don't need much feedback on those.

I'm primarily looking for feed back on the aluminum cased cells sold to aliexpress that are 190 Ah for about $690. I first saw these cells on Wills video. I think that are a great bargain and allow me to buy more solar panels and a decent inverter to stay within my budget.

You are probably correct about people not having much long term data but I'll take short term data as well. Just looking for any feedback.

Again, I appreciate the help and conversation.

 

[HRTKD]

The higher the amp hours, the heavier and more expensive the battery cell will be. This may be 100% true for every battery cell, but in general, it's a reasonable way to compare the various cells.

 

[Ninjan8]

Why are Fortune batteries so much heavier? They are listed at 3kg for 100ah, where most listings have prismatic 100ah batteries at 2kg. That's a pretty substantial difference. Is it the aluminum case?
I'm in a similar boat to the OP, i want to build 4 100ah batteries to use a 12v daily, but then run them in series and parallel for travel trailer(rare usage for now), and as an emergency backup power supply.

Also, the more well respected battery manufacturers come closer to 3kg per 100 amp 3.2v cell. Battleborns 14kg and renogy is similar.

 

[Ampster]

Also, the more well respected battery manufacturers come closer to 3kg per 100 amp 3.2v cell. Battleborns 14kg and renogy is similar.

A self leveling metric I use is Watts per kg. The 280 Ahr cells popular on this forum come in at 175 Watts per kg. (896/5.5) versus 106 W/kg for the Fortunes (320/3).
I think some of that comparison is that with a larger cell the case becomes less of a factor in the overall weight.

 

[Dzl]

Sorry, if I didn't state that correctly. Yes, I guess the fortune cells encased in hard plastic and are aluminum shell prismatic cells. I saw a video where Will said the Fortune cells (Al cased prismatics) were durable well, handle vibrations and have sturdy battery posts. Top of the line but HEAVY,

Are you sure you are not confusing Fortune for CALB?
I recall him saying something similar about CALB cells (and this is something that is generally said about the hard plastic cells (CALB, Sinopoly, Winston). But I'm not sure I watched the video on the Fortune cells, so you may be right. I wonder what would make the fortune cells heavier than other aluminum cells.

 

[Ampster]

I wonder what would make the fortune cells heavier than other aluminum cells.

I would speculate that 3/8 inch of dense plastic versus 1/32 inch aluminum.

 

[Zil]

There is no 3/8 dense plastic case on Fortune cells. They are just better quality than others.

 

[Craig]

FYI a 100Ah fortune cell weighs a little under 6 pounds. For comparison a 280 Ah EVE cell weighs over 9 lbs call it 10 just to make things easy

 

[Ampster]

Yes, that is 175 Watts per kg for the 280's versus 106 Watts per kg for the Fortunes. That is a significant difference in energy density. I did not calculate the cubic inch density but that is probably more important for EVs.

 

[Ampster]

There is no 3/8 dense plastic case on Fortune cells. They are just better quality than others.

Correct, I was thinking of others.

 

[Dzl]

I would speculate that 3/8 inch of dense plastic versus 1/32 inch aluminum.

To my knowledge Fortune cells are aluminum with plastic end caps:

edit: looks like you already figured that out

 

[Markrv1]

Just doing the same project as others here and completely new to electrical storage studies in general and adding lithium knowledge on top of that, so this may be a basic and uninformed question. The aluminum cased lifepo4 200Ah products are 3.2V batteries with extremely similar densities measuring to near-identical physical properties. Using 4 cells in series to create a 12.8v battery, cost roughly $780 dollars delivered. However, that same 3.2v cell as near as I can tell is sold at $660 marketed as a 24v package (linked in series and parallel). Why and what am I missing? 3.2v is with identical density and dimensions is still the same?

 

[HectorV]

To my knowledge Fortune cells are aluminum with plastic end caps:

edit: looks like you already figured that out

Yes, I eventually figured that the plastic is only on the caps. In looking for other options, I found that other companies (e.g. Frey, Orient, etc) are doing this as well. Here's the frey with off color blue make it clear what they are doing.

In the end, I ordered the 190 Ah aluminum shell prismatics from Aliexpress because they were cheaper and were going to be lighter than the 200 Ah of fortune cells. Once they arrive, i have to build the frame and wood that will hold everything then mount all of the equipment to it.

Hope to have it done in a couple weeks or so. I'll take some pics.

Thanks for the information and patience with the newbie questions.

Have a great weekend.

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