Are Winston cells worth it?

[Daddy Tanuki]

having used CALB nylon cells for the last couple of years, I wanted to upgrade my banks size.

I am not really all of that impressed with EVE an the other aluminum cased cells. seems like a bunch of scrabbling around trying to save $5.00 with a very variable end result.
Now some of this can be laid at the foot of the builder, but a lot of it to me anyway seems to be the fault of the cell provider. it seems the aluminum cased cells are a lot more fragile than the nylon cased cells

as Calb are no longer produced in the nylon cell, I had to ask my self are Winstons still worth the initial cost. they have several advantages. they can be charged according to winston safely at .25c down to -25°C which means I would not need to build a battery warmer for this pack. (for my location). this means one less persnickety sub system to monitor.

7000 cycles and winston's legendary reliability. the difference in cost as currently quoted is almost exactly half. $1.00 / amp hour for Winstons brand new TSWB-YLP400AH which is 1430 watt hour or 400 amp hour according to their generic sales spec sheets. Vs .48 for eve From Amy. This price is according to Winston's sales reps. with an actual winston email address. (all sizes are available new, 50~1000) the only variance being delivery time depending upon what they are producing in the factory at that time.

"Our battery's applicable temperature is -45°c~85°c. And the preferred temperature for charging and discharging we recommend is 25°c."

think, (know) that I would calendar age them prior to cycle killing them. nylon cases, no special dividers no compression devices needed, no special heating or cooling systems needed (for my location.) the only question is charging voltage, floating voltage etc. they are rated from the voltage of 2.8-3.8 so it seems to me that the standard top balance to 3.65 and a 3 volt cutoff would probably be a good place to start.

any thoughts? questions? concerns?

 

[hwy17]

I don't know much but chasing nylon cases seems like a losing game at this point.

Whatever you think of the merits the bulk of the market has moved on and the volume and the competition is in aluminum now.

 

[toms]

I’m not seeing anything yet that indicates the EVE / CATL / Lishen etc cells are going to last half as long as the Winston’s. I am going to wait another three or four years to get further information

You know what you are getting with factory Winston cells. Anything else is a gamble. My gut is telling me I’ll be buying aluminium cells next, but only because I think the price will drop to 1/3 of a Winston.

 

[Unlikely]

I was of a similar mind to OP; but then my Winstons (of 4 years) have started to fade, and very very fast.
I have seen another comment from a few years back that one cell let down the pack, and I have had a similar experience.

Last week, I emailed my sales contact on 'winston999@winston-battery.com' and received vague reassurances of product quality. But no offer of warranty beyond 1 year.

At the same time I emailed 'service@winston-battery.com' to ask for technical guidance about recovering the capacity by using a charge voltaage over 3.65V. And still no reply. (Their specification suggest 4.0V is the max charge current.)

So the lustre has gone from my initial (expensive) purchase, and whilst this is only one experience, I thought I should report that I tried my best, paid the high price and probably got the same result as most Grade B cells.

They are a lovely yellow colour though!

P.S. I just bought a GobelPower GP-SR1-PC200 battery for the house system and very impressed with it. 16x EVE LF280K HSEV Grade A cells (with intact QR codes) and amazing capacities. I gave Winston a chance to quote and they also gave me the $1 / AmpHour price. I have no need for low temperature operation here, so that is not a bonus for me. The batteries came with fibreglass separators / isolators, and the capacity density and ease of handling is a big bonus in this size of battery. My initial bias against alu case cells has gone. Hope that helps.

For an explanation of their cell matching selection technique which gives higher capacity for the battery as a whole, scroll down and read this page...

EV Grade A EVE 3.2V 280Ah Rechargeable LiFePO4 Battery Cell

Lifepo4 Zellen, 3,2V, LiFePO EVE 280ah, 8000 Zyklen Brand new EVE 3.2V 280Ah Cell with original QR. EVE 280Ah LiFePO4 Battery Cell CAD Drawing with Dimensions and Main Parameters EVE 280Ah LiFePO4 battery cell is 3.2V LFP battery, widely used in home solar energy storage system, and it has...

www.gobelpower.com

Andy on Off-grid-garage also did a full review

I posted my question with more information on my setup here

One of my Winston cells is lame. Will a high voltage charge bring back the capacity?

I made a 12V battery from 4x Winston 700Ah cells. Been managed by REC-BMS with Active Balancer for 4 years. Raspberry Pi + Victron. The cells were new direct from China factory with consecutive serial numbers. You might call them A Grade these days, this was the way they did cell matching...

diysolarforum.com

 

[scubadoo]

While not Winston cells but from a similar earlier era I have a 4 cell 300Ah Sinopoly LiFePO4 battery pack that has survived 9 years of fulltime RV travelling with just a 5% capacity loss. In Ah from 315 down to 299 at the last annual C/10 test 3 weeks ago. No cell balancing has ever proved necessary. I do check occasionally and tweak a little but only a few Wh is ever added or removed in just the few seconds @30A.
As the only battery onboard it also starts the 3.9l turbo diesel truck engine often multiple times a day.

I paralled a 4 cell 280Ah EVE battery about a year ago. How will it compare with the Sinopoly in another nine years?
I guess I may have to wait a while.

 

[Unlikely]

While not Winston cells but from a similar earlier era I have a 4 cell 300Ah Sinopoly LiFePO4 battery pack that has survived 9 years of fulltime RV travelling with just a 5% capacity loss. In Ah from 315 down to 299 at the last annual C/10 test 3 weeks ago. No cell balancing has ever proved necessary. I do check occasionally and tweak a little but only a few Wh is ever added or removed in just the few seconds @30A.
As the only battery onboard it also starts the 3.9l turbo diesel truck engine often multiple times a day.

I paralled a 4 cell 280Ah EVE battery about a year ago. How will it compare with the Sinopoly in another nine years?
I guess I may have to wait a while.

I think the flaw in my logic was that consecutive batteries on the production line would have similar performance, and therefore would be matched. So this actually suggests that to buy direct from Winston is a mistake, unless they provide test information, or a matching service. Back when I bought these, there was B Grade warehouses, that tested cells and made up groups, and that would have perhaps proven more reliable.

I am based in Asia however. I am sure that if you are buying from an agent in USA or Europe that they would have performed some kind of testing. One thing that I notice on my new EVE batteries is that they are certainly not consecutive numbers on the production line - far from it. I am told that EVE do the testing and matching of groups of A grade cells.

@scubadoo - Did you purchase from a supplier that suggested they were do any kind of matching??

 

[scubadoo]

@scubadoo - Did you purchase from a supplier that suggested they were do any kind of matching??

I'm not certain that matching was a thing 9 years ago. Purchased strapped together with two hose clip style stainless steel bands. Still zero visual case swelling.
From memory the cell barcode numbers are not sequential. I will check tomorrow.

 

[hardtop]

Not having a battery heater is convincing, but I didn't want to pay for shipping from China to the West.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I am in the process of ordering 32 Winston 400 a/H cells directly from Winston, they have their own sales office now.

i was working this for the last month and felt a little anxious due to the price of new Winston cells and not even being sure if the seller was honest or another flake just lying on the internet. I searched their website and found an actual contact me tab for Winston tried it and got an answer.

They offer direct sell to normal people like you and me for small batch orders while they are pricy compared to say any of the EVE or similar ones it works out to about 2x the price for guaranteed new cells with test reports and a one year warranty for personnel use. (written contract with all documents).

Wish me luck. the CALB's I got are older and still plugging along but i want a guaranteed week to 10 days at the cabin in the winter for the batteries with the panels covered with snow. the longest i have seen the panels covered to date was 3 days before they self melted most of the snow off and at that point in time the array was putting out about half of what it normally does in the winter and everything was OK. as I can not go every week anymore I want enough battery to take care of the cabin for enough time that if they do get a big snowfall I can drive up and clear the panels within a week to 10 days and not have any power outages, or damage to the cabin or battery banks

now the only thing is swallowing the cost. when I spoke with Amy Wan, and Ami Luyan (sp) They wee both quoting me about 8k for grade a 32 x 304 Eve's. (608 a/h) for the eve's but things fell apart with one of them when I asked about shipping and damage to terminals. We have had several members cells arrive with bent terminals, not necessarily from either of the two (I forget which vendor it was) but it is a concern when you are spending 8k. with Winston i am getting guaranteed from the factory fresh 800 a/h with a one year warranty. and they have the flush threaded terminals from the facotry same as my calbs, which i have had zero problems with.

wish me luck.

link to cells as well as screen shot

Thunder Sky Winston Water Based Lithium Yttrium Power Battery-Energy Storage-thundersky-winston.com-

email from winston affirming that I was actually speaking to one of their employees.

 

[Brucey]

I am in the process of ordering 32 Winston 400 a/H cells directly from Winston, they have their own sales office now.

i was working this for the last month and felt a little anxious due to the price of new Winston cells and not even being sure if the seller was honest or another flake just lying on the internet. I searched their website and found an actual contact me tab for Winston tried it and got an answer.

They offer direct sell to normal people like you and me for small batch orders while they are pricy compared to say any of the EVE or similar ones it works out to about 2x the price for guaranteed new cells with test reports and a one year warranty for personnel use. (written contract with all documents).

Wish me luck. the CALB's I got are older and still plugging along but i want a guaranteed week to 10 days at the cabin in the winter for the batteries with the panels covered with snow. the longest i have seen the panels covered to date was 3 days before they self melted most of the snow off and at that point in time the array was putting out about half of what it normally does in the winter and everything was OK. as I can not go every week anymore I want enough battery to take care of the cabin for enough time that if they do get a big snowfall I can drive up and clear the panels within a week to 10 days and not have any power outages, or damage to the cabin or battery banks

now the only thing is swallowing the cost. when I spoke with Amy Wan, and Ami Luyan (sp) They wee both quoting me about 8k for grade a 32 x 304 Eve's. (608 a/h) for the eve's but things fell apart with one of them when I asked about shipping and damage to terminals. We have had several members cells arrive with bent terminals, not necessarily from either of the two (I forget which vendor it was) but it is a concern when you are spending 8k. with Winston i am getting guaranteed from the factory fresh 800 a/h with a one year warranty. and they have the flush threaded terminals from the facotry same as my calbs, which i have had zero problems with.

wish me luck.

link to cells as well as screen shot

Thunder Sky Winston Water Based Lithium Yttrium Power Battery-Energy Storage-thundersky-winston.com-

View attachment 185468
email from winston affirming that I was actually speaking to one of their employees.

$250 per eve a grade 304?

 

[hardtop]

It sounds like you found your battery. I looked at Winston and was attracted to them quite nicely but what flipped me the other way was shipping. I didn't want to wait 3 months and pay hazardous shipping costs all the way from China. It seemed too far away and a really long wait. I went with the EVE's 304's because they were new, good enough quality and they were available in the USA at a good price. I still might do Wilstons given time, money and patience.

 

[hwy17]

Well, it's cool that someone here is gonna do it. I am now halfway into my EVE build and I have indeed spent several hundred on compression and separation.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

$250 per eve a grade 304?

CIF shipping included into yokohama japan that what they offered me at the time. it was about 6 or 7 months back and the prices have dropped, but if they can drop the price now, they could have dropped the price then.... whats that say for the sellers?

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

It sounds like you found your battery. I looked at Winston and was attracted to them quite nicely but what flipped me the other way was shipping. I didn't want to wait 3 months and pay hazardous shipping costs all the way from China. It seemed too far away and a really long wait. I went with the EVE's 304's because they were new, good enough quality and they were available in the USA at a good price. I still might do Wilstons given time, money and patience.

yeah costs are the driver for most of us, shipping costs vary depending upon what country you are dealing with. funny thing is shipping from china to Japan with a pallet is only about 3~400 USD and takes about two weeks on average from time of payment. and I can do the importation paperwork myself.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Well, it's cool that someone here is gonna do it. I am now halfway into my EVE build and I have indeed spent several hundred on compression and separation.

I am still going to build a fixture for my cells, but more to keep them stable for earthquakes as they will live on a rack that i do not want falling over.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

OK verified two things with Winston as I wanted to be 100% sure of this: charging at -25c is OK at .25c, but charging at any c rate at 25c will increase cycle count and cell life.

secondly the cells are brand new off of the line and not over runs, rejects, or warehouse queens.

 

[samir101ng]

OK verified two things with Winston as I wanted to be 100% sure of this: charging at -25c is OK at .25c, but charging at any c rate at 25c will increase cycle count and cell life.

secondly the cells are brand new off of the line and not over runs, rejects, or warehouse queens.

Nice. Will like to see how this process goes.

 

[toms]

Nice. Will like to see how this process goes.

You’ll likely be waiting at least 15 years for the conclusion ?

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

You’ll likely be waiting at least 15 years for the conclusion ?

I think he meant the ordering process ha ha ha . regardless i will be running a heater. my current cells sit at a happy 15-20°c even at -20°c so i am not too worried, but it is nice to know that if my heater goes down it will not kill the cells outright.

 

[yabert]

Calb cells with plastic shell are still available. And at 130$/kWh.

New CALB 3.2V 180AH LIFEPO4 PRISMATIC CELL CA180FI

These batteries are brand new and grade A. Every battery tested above 195ah. Here is the Calb testing data for every cell in this listing. Xlsx datasheet download click HERE. You can match the cells to the datasheet testing with the serial number on each cell. You can download and open this file...

batteryhookup.com