Anyone using Lishen 202 AH prismatic cells?

[Gazoo]

Well, my off-grid system is basically functional, but not in its final form just in time for Hurricane Laura. Batteries are charged back up to about 80% before clouds moved in today. We're expecting Hurricane Laura to pass very close to us after it makes landfall near the LA-TX border. Will likely get 40 MPH winds, about 6" of rain, and scattered brief tornadoes here in Central Arkansas. If the power goes out, I'll have some backup power from my new system and from my older 12V system.

Great. Happy to know you have something for power. I am just north of Dallas and we have hazard weather advisories. It's time for me to charge my Valence batteries. Thanks for the reminder....lol. I only have 12 volts at close to 80 amps with a 300 watt SW inverter for now...But better than nothing.
I have ordered 8 280ah EVE cells. Hope they will be shipped next week.

 

[Metalophile]

No damage and no power outage for me from Laura. Slightly crestfallen that I didn't have a chance to test out my new system during a real outage.

 

[Gazoo]

Kinda bitter sweet for you. I looked at the tracking and didn't realize how far east Laura was from us. We had thunderstorm warnings but I don't believe they were related to Laura.

 

[Metalophile]

Well, last night we finally got an 8-hour power outage courtesy of a driver who hit a power pole and downed some power lines in my city. At least a couple or 4 thousand customers were out of power. So, although my system is not quite in its final state, I fired it up, brought an extension cord into my home, and ran some emergency power. I powered our internet modem, then a large, 24 cu. ft. upright freezer which drew about 200 Watts. My 2000W Giandel inverter started it right up, no hesitation. Then after 3 hours of powering the freezer I disconnected that and powered our main kitchen refrigerator-freezer which drew about 250 watts, and again started with no hesitation. Also ran a fan, some lights, the modem, and charged everyone's phone. My wife is happy my tinkering has finally resulted in something useful and practical now. I discovered that I don't have enough 3-prong extension cords to run my emergency power to more items around the house. I didn't get to test whether I could connect both main refrigerator and freezer at the same time, so next time I go to the store I get some more 3-prong extension cords and power outlet strips. I feel confident that had the power outage lasted longer I could have kept all 4 of my refrigerators/freezers at least cold enough to save all our food - for at least a couple or three days. Especially after I get all the solar panels hooked up. I used up 45 AH of my 202 AH during those 8 hours - and those were hours of darkness with no solar charging.

 

[JoeCool]

I'm considering these cells for an off-grid solar setup that will use <100w continuous with a stable load in an 8s configuration. Charging will likely be around 1 kw.

@Metalophile What is the size of busbar you used? What's the distance pole-to-pole for 2 of the cells? The seller I'm looking at doesn't seem to sell busbars.

@BiduleOhm Why do you value these cells so little based on a possible out-of-spec 1 milliohm IR? Is it because their lifespan is expected to be low? Or that the variation is expected to be high and thus poorly balanced? Is there any real downside to poorly balanced cells other than a bit lower than

 

[BiduleOhm]

@BiduleOhm Why do you value these cells so little based on a possible out-of-spec 1 milliohm IR? Is it because their lifespan is expected to be low? Or that the variation is expected to be high and thus poorly balanced? Is there any real downside to poorly balanced cells other than a bit lower than

If something is out of spec then it means there's a problem somewhere so I wouldn't pay the full price for that. Also here we're talking about one of the most important spec as it basically reflects the health of the cell. If it was about the dimensions being out of spec for example it would not be a big deal. But that's only my opinion

 

[Metalophile]

I'm considering these cells for an off-grid solar setup that will use <100w continuous with a stable load in an 8s configuration. Charging will likely be around 1 kw.

@Metalophile What is the size of busbar you used? What's the distance pole-to-pole for 2 of the cells? The seller I'm looking at doesn't seem to sell busbars.

@BiduleOhm Why do you value these cells so little based on a possible out-of-spec 1 milliohm IR? Is it because their lifespan is expected to be low? Or that the variation is expected to be high and thus poorly balanced? Is there any real downside to poorly balanced cells other than a bit lower than

I made the busbars out of 1/2" soft copper pipe, flattened using a regular household hammer. I put plastic spacers between my cells so my holes are drilled 61mm apart - center-to-center. If I didn't use the spacers they would probably need to be about 55mm center-to-center. Yes, my vendor ducked the question about busbars, too.

 

[Sailor77]

Hi guys! I'm considering buying 24 of the Lishen 202aH cells from Shenzhen Shouhuzhe. Have anyone of you using them done more testing on the internal resistance? If not, but using them, are they balancing well?

 

[Michael B Caro]

Hi guys! I'm considering buying 24 of the Lishen 202aH cells from Shenzhen Shouhuzhe. Have anyone of you using them done more testing on the internal resistance? If not, but using them, are they balancing well?

Since this is my group buy thread, you might want to at least give me a chance to give you a quote before buying. I have cells shipped that are tested and matched for voltage and resistance, and labeled with those results, right before packaging before shipping. For an extra $5 per cell I will have them tested, matched, and labeled for capacity as well.
I also offer your choice of M6 poll, M6 Studs, or M8 studs at no extra cost.

 

[Sailor77]

Since this is my group buy thread, you might want to at least give me a chance to give you a quote before buying. I have cells shipped that are tested and matched for voltage and resistance, and labeled with those results, right before packaging before shipping. For an extra $5 per cell I will have them tested, matched, and labeled for capacity as well.
I also offer your choice of M6 poll, M6 Studs, or M8 studs at no extra cost.

This thread was started by Metalophile, discussing Lishen 202ah cells?
You may very well give me a quote, but you tried once before and delivery to Norway thru USA is not cost effective, remember? ?
But you are saying that high IR is not a common problem with the 202 cells, at least not morr than other cells?

 

[Michael B Caro]

This thread was started by Metalophile, discussing Lishen 202ah cells?
You may very well give me a quote, but you tried once before and delivery to Norway thru USA is not cost effective, remember? ?
But you are saying that high IR is not a common problem with the 202 cells, at least not morr than other cells?

My bad! I glanced at the URL and saw 272ah and not 202ah and jumped to a conclusion. I apologize.
And no, I did not remember....I am 66 years old and that was in August lol.
I almost never say anything about the threads I start going in another direction, or much of anything else.....it figures that one of the rare times I say something I put my foot in my mouth lol.

I am working with a new supplier, and things change all the time with shipping anyway. Let me see what this supplier says.

I am not aware of high IR being a problem with the Lishen 202ah cells, and I trust this supplier to not ship anything that does not test as it should in regards to IR.

 

[Gazoo]

I am not aware of high IR being a problem with the Lishen 202ah cells, and I trust this supplier to not ship anything that does not test as it should in regards to IR.

You seem to have forgotten the reason I ordered the EVE cells from you was because of the high IR readings of the 202ah Lishen cells I had on order...lol. I had already paid for them and when I saw the videos from the supplier of the IR readings I requested a refund and ordered from you.

The supplier did point out it could have been due to taking the IR readings from the studs instead of directly at the terminals before the studs were laser welded on. But I wasn't going to risk it. The supplier was also wrapping the cells themselves with the PVC. But that was last October and I don't expect anyone to remember everything. I sure don't.

 

[Michael B Caro]

You seem to have forgotten the reason I ordered the EVE cells from you was because of the high IR readings of the 202ah Lishen cells I had on order...lol. I had already paid for them and when I saw the videos from the supplier of the IR readings I requested a refund and ordered from you.

The supplier did point out it could have been due to taking the IR readings from the studs instead of directly at the terminals before the studs were laser welded on. But I wasn't going to risk it. The supplier was also wrapping the cells themselves with the PVC. But that was last October and I don't expect anyone to remember everything. I sure don't.

I did forget that, but even at the time I had assumed that the high IR readings were an aberration specific to those cells, and not a problem that all, or even a large number of, Lishen 202ah cells shared. Is there reason to believe that all, or a large % of, Lishen 202ah cells suffer from having high IR?

 

[Gazoo]

Is there reason to believe that all, or a large % of, Lishen 202ah cells suffer from having high IR?

I don't know. But I believe the IR readings done by the supplier is something to take a look at. Things may have improved since then and like you said it may have been something odd with those cells. Maybe bad laser welding. Maybe the cells.

 

[Sailor77]

I don't know. But I believe the IR readings done by the supplier is something to take a look at. Things may have improved since then and like you said it may have been something odd with those cells. Maybe bad laser welding. Maybe the cells.

Thanks guys. If going for the 202's, I will be asking the supplier about the IR, and preferably IR-matched cells. I have seen that some suppliers (Basen?) put a tag on each cell showing voltage and IR, so it should not be that difficult. At least they will have to guarantee that the IR is within the specs of the datasheet that says (less or equal to) 0,4mO.

I was planning to go with the 272's, but I am now reconsidering since the 202's can be purchased for $50 a piece. Thats less than $0,25 per aH! Of course I will need more cells and more harness to achieve the desired amount of aH in total, but I can live with that.

Also, the datasheet (see attachment) states that these cells can be charged at 0,2C down to -20 celcius. I asked the supplier to confirm this with the manufacturer (Lishen), but she just replied that the datasheet is an original Lishen datasheet... This spec surprises me, since the datasheet for the 272 on the other hand says no charging below freezing. Can there be a difference in chemistry between the 202's and the 272's, both from Lishen? What is your thoughts about this?

 

[Michael B Caro]

Thanks guys. If going for the 202's, I will be asking the supplier about the IR, and preferably IR-matched cells. I have seen that some suppliers (Basen?) put a tag on each cell showing voltage and IR, so it should not be that difficult. At least they will have to guarantee that the IR is within the specs of the datasheet that says (less or equal to) 0,4mO.

I was planning to go with the 272's, but I am now reconsidering since the 202's can be purchased for $50 a piece. Thats less than $0,25 per aH! Of course I will need more cells and more harness to achieve the desired amount of aH in total, but I can live with that.

Also, the datasheet (see attachment) states that these cells can be charged at 0,2C down to -20 celcius. I asked the supplier to confirm this with the manufacturer (Lishen), but she just replied that the datasheet is an original Lishen datasheet... This spec surprises me, since the datasheet for the 272 on the other hand says no charging below freezing. Can there be a difference in chemistry between the 202's and the 272's, both from Lishen? What is your thoughts about this?

I require any supplier I order from to label the cells for voltage and resistance. I think that I was the one that started that and some suppliers are now doing that for most everyone.....if I remember correctly, gazoo is the one that suggested that that would be a good perk when he ordered from me (he was the very first to place an order with me...THANKS gazoo!).

I can not say with 100% certainty that there is a difference in chemistry between the Lishen 202ah cells and the Lishen 272ah cells, but that is very possible. I do know that there is a slight chemistry difference between the Lishen 272ah cells and the new Lishen 280ah cells.

 

[Gazoo]

Also, the datasheet (see attachment) states that these cells can be charged at 0,2C down to -20 celcius. I asked the supplier to confirm this with the manufacturer (Lishen), but she just replied that the datasheet is an original Lishen datasheet... This spec surprises me, since the datasheet for the 272 on the other hand says no charging below freezing. Can there be a difference in chemistry between the 202's and the 272's, both from Lishen? What is your thoughts about this?

I am attaching REV-1 of the spec sheet. You have REV-0. I think the one you attached was composed in 2018 and the one I am attaching was composed in 2019. Even the new Lishen 280 spec sheet states not to charge in freezing temps. It would be good to check directly with Lishen regarding charging temps if that is a concern. The only cells I am aware of that supposedly can be charged in freezing temps are Winstons.

 

[Sailor77]

I am attaching REV-1 of the spec sheet. You have REV-0. I think the one you attached was composed in 2018 and the one I am attaching was composed in 2019. Even the new Lishen 280 spec sheet states not to charge in freezing temps. It would be good to check directly with Lishen regarding charging temps if that is a concern. The only cells I am aware of that supposedly can be charged in freezing temps are Winstons.

Yes I did also notice that the datasheet is from 2018. But your attachment is for the 272, do you know it is also valid for the 202?
The LiFeYPo4 Winstons have this advantage because of the Ytrium, so I would also be VERY surprised if the LiFePo4 Lishen 202's have the same advantage..

 

[Gazoo]

Yes I did also notice that the datasheet is from 2018. But your attachment is for the 272, do you know it is also valid for the 202?
The LiFeYPo4 Winstons have this advantage because of the Ytrium, so I would also be VERY surprised if the LiFePo4 Lishen 202's have the same advantage..

Sorry my bad.

I checked the 170ah Lishen spec sheet and it's the same as the others....."The charge temperature range is 0℃ ~ 55℃."

A .2C charge rate is apx. 4 amps. I have no idea if the low C rate would damage the cells. Maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in here as I have no knowledge about this. I do find it interesting Lishen makes note of it in their 202ah spec sheet but leaves it out in their 170, 272 and 280ah spec sheets.

I ran across this thread you might find interesting.

 

[Metalophile]

So far so good. My pack is working well. I have 1kW solar array feeding it, and my load is a deep freezer and grow lights for seedlings for my garden. It is staying well balanced. I'm using the Overkill Solar 8S BMS. This system is in my garage, so the lowest temperature it sees is about 0 degrees C when it was 0 degrees F outside. I haven't tried to measure Internal resistance again. My charge rate and draw rates are relatively low.