AP Systems DS3 Microinverters

[fafrd]

Surprised to see there is no thread on these new Microinverters yet, so figured I’d start one: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aY1RyvDp9Az-jay6xCTGtmUTaDDJ2IZv/preview

A dual-MPPT Microinverter with 880VA of output for only $200 has got to be the most competitive offering in today’s Microinverter market.

Interested if anyone has purchased these yet and what they think of the product…

 

[OzSolar]

Surprised to see there is no thread on these new Microinverters yet, so figured I’d start one: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aY1RyvDp9Az-jay6xCTGtmUTaDDJ2IZv/preview

A dual-MPPT Microinverter with 880VA of output for only $200 has got to be the most competitive offering in today’s Microinverter market.

Interested if anyone has purchased these yet and what they think of the product…

I saw them for sale at "The Power Store" a few days ago. Their module calculator that says it wont work for my module (535w VSUN Bifacial) although I can't see why. It says Vmp fails at my lowest temp of -15C but that's still well within thier published MPPT and Voc ranges??

 

[fafrd]

I saw them for sale at "The Power Store" a few days ago. Their module calculator that says it wont work for my module (535w VSUN Bifacial) although I can't see why. It says Vmp fails at my lowest temp of -15C but that's still well within thier published MPPT and Voc ranges??

View attachment 117120

Looks like a mistake.

In the case of my panels, Vmp is 37.9V so I should be fine, even at max operating temperature of 149F, but I may lose the ability to activate bypass diodes to salvage some output in the presence of partial shading in the late afternoon.

Activating a single bypass diode would require dropping voltage below the Vmppt minimum of 32V but would be above the minimum Operating Voltage of 26V.

I’ve written AP Systems to clarify whether the MPPT algorithm can drop all the way down to 26V or not (no doubt at an efficiency lower than the 97% Peak Efficiency specification, if so).

 

[OzSolar]

Looks like a mistake.

After searching thier FAQ's for a while I sent them a message as well. We will see when (if) they get back with me. The 880VA max output of the DS3 is ~perfect for the NOCT for two of my modules.

 

[fafrd]

After searching thier FAQ's for a while I sent them a message as well. We will see when (if) they get back with me. The 880VA max output of the DS3 is ~perfect for the NOCT for two of my modules.

I’ve had pretty good luck getting a response from them in the past (within a day or two) so hopefully that has not changed…

What size are those two panels?

 

[OzSolar]

I’ve had pretty good luck getting a response from them in the past (within a day or two) so hopefully that has not changed…

What size are those two panels?

They got back with me in a few hours but they all they did was send me a link to thier module calculator so it was like they didn't read my message.

VSUN 535 I can get them for 43 cents/watt new.

 

[fafrd]

They got back with me in a few hours but they all they did was send me a link to thier module calculator so it was like they didn't read my message.

VSUN 535 I can get them for 43 cents/watt new.

Wow, those are physically large (89” x 43”). Are that size panels common where you are?

 

[Desabrais]

I was scoping using Q.Peak DUO XL-G10.3's with these.

According to the panel datasheet Voc is 53.61V, Vmp is 44.81, Isc is. 11.26, Temp Isc is 0.04 %/K, Temp Voc is -0.27.

It appears these inverters are not compatible

I'm not sure I understand why. If I use these inverters will I cause them to prematurely fail at low temps.

Is there any microinverter that would work with my setup? It can realistically hit -30 C here, and on extreme occasion even lower.

 

[fafrd]

I was scoping using Q.Peak DUO XL-G10.3's with these.

According to the panel datasheet Voc is 53.61V, Vmp is 44.81, Isc is. 11.26, Temp Isc is 0.04 %/K, Temp Voc is -0.27.

It appears these inverters are not compatible
View attachment 117205
I'm not sure I understand why. If I use these inverters will I cause them to prematurely fail at low temps.

I’m not getting it either. At -30C, you Voc will increase to 61.5711V, but that is below the 63.02V max rating.

So looks to me looks to me that they’ve got a bug in their calculator…

Is there any microinverter that would work with my setup? It can realistically hit -30 C here, and on extreme occasion even lower.

You’re panels are definitely pushing the limits beyond any Microinverter I’ve ever seen. Do you need to be generating solar power on those -30C days?

 

[Desabrais]

I’m not getting it either. At -30C, you Voc will increase to 61.5711V, but that is below the 63.02V max rating.

So looks to me looks to me that they’ve got a bug in their calculator…

You’re panels are definitely pushing the limits beyond any Microinverter I’ve ever seen. Do you need to be generating solar power on those -30C days?

I'm pretty new to DIY Solar. I don't necessarily need to be generating solar when it's -30 C, that will be on low usage days. The microinverters would still see the same voltage though would they not (whether or not I have the grid "disconnected")?

 

[fafrd]

I'm pretty new to DIY Solar. I don't necessarily need to be generating solar when it's -30 C, that will be on low usage days. The microinverters would still see the same voltage though would they not (whether or not I have the grid "disconnected")?

Yes, you’d need to open the circuit breaker.

If you can’t be certain of being present on days that cold, either leave the system disconnected or rig up a relay controlled by a temperature sensor,

Or even better, a voltage-controlled relay should do the trick… (likely controlling a second higher-current relay).

 

[OzSolar]

Wow, those are physically large (89” x 43”). Are that size panels common where you are?

Yeah, give or take they are 4'x8' sheet of plywood. I can barely carry two at a time up the ladder.

No they probably aren't that common around me. They are at one of those "liquidator" places that get all sorts of stuff from who knows where. I assume they were meant for a MW scale solar farm that over order bought or something similiar?

 

[fafrd]

Yeah, give or take they are 4'x8' sheet of plywood. I can barely carry two at a time up the ladder.

No they probably aren't that common around me. They are at one of those "liquidator" places that get all sorts of stuff from who knows where. I assume they were meant for a MW scale solar farm that over order bought or something similiar?

That would make sense…

You might be better off with a string inverter or an SCC - is there a reason you need to use Microinverters?

 

[OzSolar]

You might be better off with a string inverter or an SCC - is there a reason you need to use Microinverters?

Honestly no need, I just want to play around with them. My house is already net positive so it's not like I need the extra capacity. Just something fun. I used them to cover the open patio on the boiler room/home office door out of my walkout basement. The existing covering was pretty ratty so I beefed up the structure a bit and used these bifacial modules. They face directly west at 10 degrees or less. Not one bit of direct sunlight until just after solar noon and then trees to the west totally shade them by 5pm.

I looked at several string inverters but for only 6 modules something like a SunnyBoy seemed overkill and pricey plus I'm already semi-familiar with them. Do you have string inverter you would suggest? No permits to pull, etc so the options are wide open.

I'm getting ready to build my first DIY LifeP04 pack (16S1P 280AH) to replace my 23 year old Surrette 2V FLA bank hooked up to 23 year old Trace SW4048.

 

[fafrd]

Honestly no need, I just want to play around with them. My house is already net positive so it's not like I need the extra capacity. Just something fun. I used them to cover the open patio on the boiler room/home office door out of my walkout basement. The existing covering was pretty ratty so I beefed up the structure a bit and used these bifacial modules. They face directly west at 10 degrees or less. Not one bit of direct sunlight until just after solar noon and then trees to the west totally shade them by 5pm.

I looked at several string inverters but for only 6 modules something like a SunnyBoy seemed overkill and pricey plus I'm already semi-familiar with them. Do you have string inverter you would suggest? No permits to pull, etc so the options are wide open.

I'm getting ready to build my first DIY LifeP04 pack (16S1P 280AH) to replace my 23 year old Surrette 2V FLA bank hooked up to 23 year old Trace SW4048.

I’ve got a little 3-panel DC array I’m playing around with like you (DIY bushwhacking).

My shading is so severe that I’ve gone with a 1S string of half-cut panels charging a 24V LiFePO4 battery.

That’s working great to maximize my production despite the shading, but 1S makes it a challenge to capitalize on any of the ever-widening crop of LV Hybrid Inverters & AIOs.

There are a bunch of 48V hybrids that would need at least a 2S string to charge.

But many of the newer options have a 100VDC or even 120VDC minimum string voltage.

You are building a 48V battery so I’m guessing you can find a AIO/Hybrid that supports a 2S3P configuration (and otherwise use a separate SCC).

Choices will probably be greater planning on a 3S2P configuration (and you’d likely get 2 MPPT inputs to boot).

And if you are comfortable going higher voltage, there are a bunch if very economical hybrids coming out that could handle a 6S1P string…

How much are you looking to spend and what is your appetite for going with less expensive / newer / less proven suppliers versus wanting to pay more for tried and true?

I may end up having to switch to a 48V battery to get all the capability I’m hoping for, so I’ve been tracking the Conext XW Pro (needs an external SCC) as well as Solark and Victron offerings, but here is an example of a rebadged product from a top-tier supplier that costs less than half of those alternatives and would be a good fit for a 6S1P array: https://www.midnitesolar.com/produc...DIY Series&productCat_ID=57&sortOrder=1&act=p

 

[OzSolar]

I may end up having to switch to a 48V battery to get all the capability I’m hoping for, so I’ve been tracking the Conext XW Pro (needs an external SCC) as well as Solark and Victron offerings, but here is an example of a rebadged product from a top-tier supplier that costs less than half of those alternatives and would be a good fit for a 6S1P array: https://www.midnitesolar.com/produc...DIY Series&productCat_ID=57&sortOrder=1&act=p

If that Midnite DIY was 120/240 split phase or could be stacked to do it I would already have it. Did you know it can run batteryless? Or least that's what they tell me. I lust learned that. I was on the phone with them last week about another project and they alluded to a 10,000 watt version of the DIY is in the works. I couldn't pry anything else out of them though.

If I do an AIO it really needs to be able to deal with my current 1HP well pump with almost 40 starting amps. A Grundfos SQE is on the list of future upgrades but as long my current well pump is still working I can't justify replacing it

And if you are comfortable going higher voltage, there are a bunch if very economical hybrids coming out that could handle a 6S1P string…

How much are you looking to spend and what is your appetite for going with less expensive / newer / less proven suppliers versus wanting to pay more for tried and true?

I currently have almost 17 kW of PV on two Solis string inverters. No shading between 9AM to 5PM. I generate between 70 to 100 kWH per day depending on the time of the year. I should also mention that I'm an specialty electrician and do a fair amount of solar projects so I'm comfortable (perhaps too comfortable) working on high voltage strings. We've recently did a few projects with Voc's approaching 850.

I've studied most all of the low cost ($2k or less) AIO clones which almost all appear to be made by Voltronic and honestly they've got too many warts for me when you really get to studying them.

A Solark 12 or 15 is the obvious answer. It will do everything I need but it's just that initial price. Honestly for what it does it is well priced. I can AC Couple my existing grid tied inverters to it and it properly charge my the LiFEPO4 bank I'm getting ready to build.

 

[JoeHam]

I would guess Midnite was referring to the Rosie inverter which has been “coming soon” for a couple of years now.

Midnite Solar Rosie HF Inverter 27kW Surge Test

1. Is this inverter equipped with fault detection such that, if an output switch or controller fails, that it will disconnect the output with a physical relay, to prevent large DC outputs that can damage loads? Can you provide HF inverter examples that have protective relay that prevents DC...

diysolarforum.com

The B17 is even further behind I suspect.

 

[OzSolar]

I would guess Midnite was referring to the Rosie inverter which has been “coming soon” for a couple of years now.

Midnite Solar Rosie HF Inverter 27kW Surge Test

1. Is this inverter equipped with fault detection such that, if an output switch or controller fails, that it will disconnect the output with a physical relay, to prevent large DC outputs that can damage loads? Can you provide HF inverter examples that have protective relay that prevents DC...

diysolarforum.com

The B17 is even further behind I suspect.

That was my thought as well but I dare not guess about things I'm only vaguely familiar with. That B17 looks like it's going to be something else. It reminds me of the ExelTech that has the hot swappable modular inverter set up out for long time time now. Never had a chance to install any of them but they sure look solid.

 

[fafrd]

If that Midnite DIY was 120/240 split phase or could be stacked to do it I would already have it. Did you know it can run batteryless? Or least that's what they tell me. I lust learned that. I was on the phone with them last week about another project and they alluded to a 10,000 watt version of the DIY is in the works. I couldn't pry anything else out of them though.

If I do an AIO it really needs to be able to deal with my current 1HP well pump with almost 40 starting amps. A Grundfos SQE is on the list of future upgrades but as long my current well pump is still working I can't justify replacing it


I currently have almost 17 kW of PV on two Solis string inverters. No shading between 9AM to 5PM. I generate between 70 to 100 kWH per day depending on the time of the year. I should also mention that I'm an specialty electrician and do a fair amount of solar projects so I'm comfortable (perhaps too comfortable) working on high voltage strings. We've recently did a few projects with Voc's approaching 850.

I've studied most all of the low cost ($2k or less) AIO clones which almost all appear to be made by Voltronic and honestly they've got too many warts for me when you really get to studying them.

A Solark 12 or 15 is the obvious answer. It will do everything I need but it's just that initial price. Honestly for what it does it is well priced. I can AC Couple my existing grid tied inverters to it and it properly charge my the LiFEPO4 bank I'm getting ready to build.

Are you based in the US?

I mistakenly assumed you were based Down Under because of your handle.

For Solark-like but lower initial price you might want to check out this thread: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/n...-200a-ac-passthrough-current-us-market.44236/

 

[OzSolar]

Are you based in the US?

I mistakenly assumed you were based Down Under because of your handle.

I am on the western side of the Ozarks in southwestern Missouri.

For Solark-like but lower initial price you might want to check out this thread: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/n...-200a-ac-passthrough-current-us-market.44236/

How have I missed that massive thread!?! Thank you for the heads up.