Batteries: Victron LFP Smart compared with Victron LFP SuperPack

[Touring]

The Superpack doesn’t have Bluetooth which for me is a good thing. I’ll be living in my van and don’t want 24/7 EMF in my space.

The Superpack has way less charge/discharge capability. But I’ll be wiring 3 x 100Ah in parallel which will be sufficient for 300 watt solar and a DC/DC 60amp inbound. And sufficient for my consumers.

The Superpack is less money.

Victron is not cheap in any variant. But putting that aside, what are the other pros/cons between Smart and Superpack?

 

[Kish]

Compare the datasheet for Smart vs SuperPack.

Comparing the specs for the 12.8V, 100Ah batteries:

Pro:
1. SuperPack has integrated BMS, so its "ready to use", vs for Smart, its a BYOB (bring your own BMS), so that's an additional extra ($120). Plus you're responsible for programming it correctly to protect the battery. VE.Bus BMS datasheet.
2. SuperPack has IP43 weather protection vs. only IP22 weather protection for Smart. IP Code.
3. SuperPack is lighter (14kg/30.8lb) vs. Smart is (15kg/33lb), plus you need to account for the additional weight of external BMS.

Con:
1. SuperPack is limited to 50A continuous discharge current vs. Smart can do 100A continuous discharge.
2. SuperPack is limited to 100A peak discharge (10 s) vs. Smart limited to 200A peak discharge.
3. SuperPack is limited to 50A continuous/peak charge current vs. Smart can do 200A max charge current, with 50A continuous recommended.
4. SuperPack cannot be connected in series (without voiding warranty) vs. Smart can be (4x 12.8V or 2x 24V max):

Up to 5 batteries can be paralleled and up to four 12V batteries or two 24V batteries can be series connected, so that a 48V battery bank of up to 1500Ah can be assembled

 

[Touring]

Thank you Kish for your answer.

I had looked at the datasheets and mentioned the different charge/discharge capability in my question. The SuperPack 100Ah will only handle 50A continuous in and out, so three in parallel will add to 150A, and I'm thinking this will be fine for modest consumers in a van?

But I missed the lack of BMS in the Smart. The Smart spec sheet refers to BMS, which with my lack of knowledge thought meant it was included in each battery. I thought the VE.Bus BMS was shown in the wiring diagram as necessary if wiring a lot of batteries together. This spooks me, since I'm about to spend a lot on stuff that might not work best together.

The wiring diagram in the spec sheet for the Smart shows a BMV-700, which I thought was not Bluetooth. Would a BMV-712 be better in a Smart system?

However, I'm thinking that someone wanting to avoid Bluetooth (explained in my question above) should go with Superpack and a BMV-700 to monitor SOC. For DC-DC I was going for the Orion-TR but that is Smart, so will use a Sterling Pro Batt Ultra instead. And for MPPT I was going for a BlueSolar 100V/30A which isn't Smart, but has only one output. I need a second output to trickle my FLA starter. There are a few FLA to FLA trickle chargers that suppliers warn not to connect LFP to FLA though I've been told by users they do work. Maybe suppliers are protecting themselves because higher voltage from LFP might damage equipment and reputations? An alternative is a twin output Votronic MPPT that will charge both starter and house, but only 2 years warranty v Victron 5 years warranty.

I'm trying to spec a system and not make mistakes. All advice is very welcome.

 

[Kish]

The VE.Bus BMS is required, even if you have a single 12.8V battery. Without that, you have no charging/discharging protection at all. (and it's unclear to me whether the batteries will even "turn on" if no BMS is detected). But the nice thing is that you only need 1 BMS for the entire pack, since they can be interconnected/daisy chained in any way, so you only have 2 leads going into the BMS. (and here I'm referring to the low-voltage communication wires, not the main +/- current-carrying wires).

The SuperPack cannot be connected in series, that's the main thing to keep in mind. You won't be ever able to connect in series to get 25.6V or 51.2V. If you're OK with that, and you're only ever planning on parallel connection, then its fine to go with that.
I'm bringing this up because I myself started with a 12.8V LifePO4 system and soon after switched around my configuration to 25.6V because I noticed the current draw at 12.8V for my loads was too high (plus much less efficiency at 12.8V for higher powered loads). If I didn't have a batteries that weren't able to connect in series, I would've been stuck at 12.8V, and would've had to lower my power consumption.

10.5V * 150A = 1575W max continuous.
(and here I'm using the lowest voltage possible for LifePO4 to simulate capabilites at near 0% SoC. A fully-charged battery can give you 14.6V * 150A = 2190W. But always look at the min, and not the max. Current increases dramatically as the SoC falls below 14%, to maintain constant power).
After inverter losses (let's say 88%, which is what I'm getting with a high-quality inverter), your max power output will be 1386W. Only you can decide whether that's enough power for you.


As for bluetooth (BMV-712) or no bluetooth (BMW-700/702), that's a personal decision. All I can say is that I have the BMV-712 and I can't imaging not having the Bluetooth. Configuring the thing on the tiny 5-segment display with scrolling text is super annoying. It's so much nicer via the VictronConnect bluetooth app. If you go with the non-bluetooth models, I highly recommend getting a VE.Direct to USB cables so you can program the BMV via a computer. Once you program it once, it should be "hands off" after that.

One final note about bluetooth: each Smart battery has its own bluetooth. I don't think it can be turned off. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Touring]

Thanks Kish

One of the options I was considering was a MultiPlus Compact 12V/2000VA/80A-30/230V VE.Bus Inverter/Charger. That system included a VE.Bus BMS wired with three 100Ah LFP Smarts.

I decided not to have the Multiplus. Also decided to have Superpack batteries. What specific VE.Bus arrangement do I need in a Superpack system? Re the cables you mention to program the BMV, could they achieve everything that a dongle would do? I was thinking I'd have to buy the dongle to program and then occasional update, but if cables will achieve everything that a dongle can do, I can be bluetooth free. Please confirm.

Thanks.