Battleborn batteries inverter startup issues

[vincei]

Doesn't the inverter have an on/off switch? Why not leave it continuously connected to the battery bank, to keep the capacitor charged? My understanding is that the problem is only upon initial connection. The inverters I've seen have the monster capacitor across the DC input. Why repeatedly stress both the BMS and the inverter, by doing repeated full disconnections? Also, this issue is not unique to BB.

The inverter is permanently connected to the batteries. There are times when the inverter turns off, like this Monday, when Solark updated the firmware. Or when there are multiple days without sun and I have to turn the inverter off so as not to run the batteries down to shutoff, or days when there wasn't enough sun going into the evening and me forgetting to check and the inverter shuts down for low battery. Those are the times when unless it is daylight and the sun is shinning it becomes a PITA to restart the Solark even with their surge suppressor. Rather than disconnect everything I shut off the battery breakers, wait until the sun comes up, the Solark starts then I can turn on the battery breaker after the Solark reports "No Battery" and life carries on. Since September 2020 I think I've had the inverter off 5 times for various of the above stated reasons.

I tried to return their none working "surge suppressor" but as OP pointed out they send you into their RMA system, give you the monumental runaround, deny it's their problem, then eventually start ignoring all email to support. Compared to companies like Solark and AltE that are an absolute pleasure to work with BattleBorn are the pits. That's just my well earned opinion. They don't offer the surge Suppressor on Amazon prime otherwise that is exactly how I would have returned this none working item to them.

I hope that helps.

 

[vincei]

Can you help us understand this? Because once an inverter is physically connected, there'll never be inrush current again to trip the BMS. So I don't understand why it's difficult to restart the inverter after it shuts itself down.

When the inverter shuts down the caps eventually discharge. Hitting the on button puts you back to square one again. If it shutdown for low battery hitting the on button will just put you in a loop of low battery, shutoff, restart, BMS shutdown. The only way to break that loop is to disconnect the batteries, recharge them from a different power source then go through the aforementioned precharge dance to stop the batteries shutting down again when the inverter is turned on. Rather than go through this annoying dance I just keep the batteries disconnected at the breaker and let the Solark restart when the sun comes up then flip the battery breakers to on.

Remember: I have Battleborn's surge suppressor in my system that is supposed compensate for the inrush issue but doesn't!

 

[vincei]

You must have been listening into my conversation with BB this morning, I requested a refund because the battery they insisted would out perform my two 7 year old 235 Ah 6 volt floodeds ( on life support) .... the BB clearly lacks capacity, as I told them it's like going to a gunfight with a knife, they referred me to their refund site that has me paying for return Hazardous Material rates, a restocking fee and if the battery was used they will test it and decide how much of the purchase price I will get, in other words S.O.L.!
Lesson here is yes I saved a hundred bucks buying direct from BB but had I bought from Amazon it would be a simple return, they pickup and I get a credit once picked up.....well worth not putting up with the BattleBorn B.S.!

The flip side, I like a challenge and living offgrid for last 9 years I have a motto, Less is More.....I will adjust to the batteries limitations and see where it takes me.

Nothing you've said surprises me. I'm done with them. Like you I have adjusted to the deficiencies of their battery and the surge suppressor and moved on with my life with workable workarounds. I'll be adding extra battery capacity DIY and avoiding the premium that this company doesn't deserve. Again, my opinion based on experience.

 

[cinergi]

When the inverter shuts down the caps eventually discharge. Hitting the on button puts you back to square one again. If it shutdown for low battery hitting the on button will just put you in a loop of low battery, shutoff, restart, BMS shutdown. The only way to break that loop is to disconnect the batteries, recharge them from a different power source then go through the aforementioned precharge dance to stop the batteries shutting down again when the inverter is turned on. Rather than go through this annoying dance I just keep the batteries disconnected at the breaker and let the Solark restart when the sun comes up then flip the battery breakers to on.

The bolded text is something that surprises me, to the point of not being sure that's what's happening. Maybe someone with intimate knowledge of this inverter can chime in -- because the inverter power switch is after the capacitors (meaning: the capacitors will not discharge when the inverter is turned off).

If the inverter is off and you connect it to the BB, does that shut down the BB and/or do you get sparks? When you precharge the inverter with a resistor, do you do it with the inverter turned on or off?

Remember: I have Battleborn's surge suppressor in my system that is supposed compensate for the inrush issue but doesn't!

I know - that's why I'm digging more because it seems like something else is going on here.

 

[K8MEJ]

The bolded text is something that surprises me, to the point of not being sure that's what's happening. Maybe someone with intimate knowledge of this inverter can chime in -- because the inverter power switch is after the capacitors (meaning: the capacitors will not discharge when the inverter is turned off).

If the inverter is off and you connect it to the BB, does that shut down the BB and/or do you get sparks? When you precharge the inverter with a resistor, do you do it with the inverter turned on or off?



I know - that's why I'm digging more because it seems like something else is going on here.

I'm an idiot on a good day, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. Is it possible there are bleeder resistors across the caps on that particular inverter model? Also, what about using a two-way battery switch between the battery bank and inverter, where one side is power directly from the battery positive to inverter and the other side of the switch is battery positive to the switch through a resistor to the DC+ input on the inverter? That way you could pre-charge the inverter caps through the resistor, then turn the switch back to the "normal" position. Does such a two battery disconnect switch exist?

This wouldn't be an automated solution, but it sounds like he's manually disconnecting the inverter anyway so this doesn't make for any more work. This manual solution is what I intend to employ on the Victron system I'm putting in my RV.

 

[cinergi]

I'm an idiot on a good day, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. Is it possible there are bleeder resistors across the caps on that particular inverter model? Also, what about using a two-way battery switch between the battery bank and inverter, where one side is power directly from the battery positive to inverter and the other side of the switch is battery positive to the switch through a resistor to the DC+ input on the inverter? That way you could pre-charge the inverter caps through the resistor, then turn the switch back to the "normal" position. Does such a two battery disconnect switch exist?

This wouldn't be an automated solution, but it sounds like he's manually disconnecting the inverter anyway so this doesn't make for any more work. This manual solution is what I intend to employ on the Victron system I'm putting in my RV.

The caps are tied to the battery so nothing could bleed them off.

Other people have employed your design - a battery combiner switch (1, 1+2, 2, off) works well .. the first position is a resistor and the second is a direct connection. Works well!

 

[orangeminnie]

The bolded text is something that surprises me, to the point of not being sure that's what's happening. Maybe someone with intimate knowledge of this inverter can chime in -- because the inverter power switch is after the capacitors (meaning: the capacitors will not discharge when the inverter is turned off).

If the inverter is off and you connect it to the BB, does that shut down the BB and/or do you get sparks? When you precharge the inverter with a resistor, do you do it with the inverter turned on or off?



I know - that's why I'm digging more because it seems like something else is going on here.

K8MEJ's solution is perfect. Step-start is SOP for heavy industrial equipment, and anything that uses large transformers, inductors, and/or caps. It's much gentler on EVERYTHING in the system. I'm mulling over the ideal resistor value. The resistor wattage can be exceeded x10 if the dissipation is brief. Also, many breakers are not designed to be daily on-off switches. 73's from N7AXC.

 

[K8MEJ]

K8MEJ's solution is perfect. Step-start is SOP for heavy industrial equipment, and anything that uses large transformers, inductors, and/or caps. It's much gentler on EVERYTHING in the system. I'm mulling over the ideal resistor value. The resistor wattage can be exceeded x10 if the dissipation is brief. Also, many breakers are not designed to be daily on-off switches. 73's from N7AXC.

I've run across several hams on this forum. That's been a happy surprise. I guess it's not my solution - just something I must have heard or adapted. I wasn't even sure what the name of the multi-way battery disconnect would be and I haven't sized the resistor yet, either. They're relatively cheap so I'll find something that can handle a decent amount of power. It's just one more thing I have to research or figure out