Brand new to solar - trying to make a plan

[Pickles]

Hope this is the right place to start my journey. So much to figure out right now.
Glad to have found this forum. I am completely new to this all but diving into learning all I can. Any input will be gladly appreciated.

Current situation:
- North Las Vegas, NV
- 3000 sq/ft home - we own outright
- Current year usage was a total of 32,000 kWh
- Varies low Feb of 2250 kWh to high in July of 3560
- two A/C units - one for each floor
- Power consumption is high as we have a heated 16ft swim spa and I run a wide format print shop for my business at home
- 2 story home
- got to get control of our power bill (I'm sure you all have heard that)
- not afraid of DIY and pretty handy
- not too interested in batteries but you could correct me if wrong on that

My main issue right now is everywhere I turn it is like talking to used car salespeople. Never a straight answer. As mentioned I'm at the beginning of my research. We do have a SunRun consultation next week which I hear will be outrageous in price and ProjectSolar just gave us a first draft. I want to dig more into DIY for ROI reasons. Was pointed to this forum from Facebook.

Would love your input and advice to help draw up a plan. I've attached the Projectsolar image and cost as I guess this is my starting point to learning what I need to draw up to plan for:

ProjectSolar
System Size: 19.600kW
DIY Price (Including Sales Tax): $35,280.00
DIY Price (After Federal Incentives): $24,696.00

 

[DIYrich]

When you get estimates, ask for the Cash price.
Do your research and understand the components. Panels, Inverters, Batteries.
Do you want AC (micro inverters) or DC connected panels.
You don't have batteries now. But, if you ever want them, plan now for them. Some systems are really expensive to add batteries. Might be worth paying a little more today for the ability to cheaply add batteries later.

 

[Pickles]

When you get estimates, ask for the Cash price.
Do your research and understand the components. Panels, Inverters, Batteries.
Do you want AC (micro inverters) or DC connected panels.
You don't have batteries now. But, if you ever want them, plan now for them. Some systems are really expensive to add batteries. Might be worth paying a little more today for the ability to cheaply add batteries later.

Thank you! that is a good place to put my effort. I'll start digging into those areas to research.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

These are all just initial thoughts for you to ponder ...

Is house "fully efficient" already (insulation, shading, etc.)?

Have you done any power audit activity, to see where the power actually goes each month? 25% to business (and a breakdown of what to which device), 25% or more to AC's, etc? Could be an option to reconsider/reduce loads due to (inefficient) appliances or configuration.

Any energy saved in the above will most likely be a reduction in sizing of solar gear.

The current "solar1" effort looks like offset of grid energy, which is one of your options.

Another possible option, as you are grid-tied already, is to consider a totally separate system that drives the business side. It can reach into the grid to pull power as needed (recharge the batteries if load too high), but otherwise drives the business, and is available to you for other use if grid down. As not grid-tied, it could save money on interconnected grid equipment, services work, etc.

Keep us posted on what you're thinking or finding ...

 

[Solarisium]

Few points to consider since i am doing full DIY, including designing, permitting, and installing:

1- decide whether you want grid tie or off grid. Grid tie is a preferred if you want to have reliable power at all times.
2- you can go grid tie, with a hybrid approach and leave room to add batteries in the future if needed.
3- microinverters are expensive. Consider string inverter systems to lower your cost. Solar Edge and SMA sunny boy are examples of string inverters. It makes your system less expensive.
4- you can save tons of money if you design your system yourself. Use Ironridge Design site and pay as little as $85 for design and permit package. It is the best resource you can find. It has saves me thousands of dollars!
5- ready to ship kits are one good option to consider. But you can also but the components separately. You can find the list of system components from the kit and buy them separately if that’s a more cost effective option.
6- Racking: some online vendors charge up to 100% for tacking components! Shop around and find the best vendor. I found City Electric Supply the best to buy ironeridge racks and some components. Shipping was free too! Watch a few videos to find the minimum list of components needed for racking.

If your roof is NOT in good shape, consider reroofing now!

depending on your system size you might need to upgrade your main service panel. Get that one done too!


When you sizing your system, you might want to consider the larger high wattage pv modules. That way you don't have to install too many modules. Again it’s a package of many different components and factors to consider.

I suggest checking your AHJ’s website now to find out any specific requirements for permit such as roof setbacks requirements. This forced me to change my design during permitting process.

It’s a learning experience too!

Good luck!
Feel free to reach out for any questions

 

[Pickles]

Few points to consider since i am doing full DIY, including designing, permitting, and installing:

1- decide whether you want grid tie or off grid. Grid tie is a preferred if you want to have reliable power at all times.
2- you can go grid tie, with a hybrid approach and leave room to add batteries in the future if needed.
3- microinverters are expensive. Consider string inverter systems to lower your cost. Solar Edge and SMA sunny boy are examples of string inverters. It makes your system less expensive.
4- you can save tons of money if you design your system yourself. Use Ironridge Design site and pay as little as $85 for design and permit package. It is the best resource you can find. It has saves me thousands of dollars!
5- ready to ship kits are one good option to consider. But you can also but the components separately. You can find the list of system components from the kit and buy them separately if that’s a more cost effective option.
6- Racking: some online vendors charge up to 100% for tacking components! Shop around and find the best vendor. I found City Electric Supply the best to buy ironeridge racks and some components. Shipping was free too! Watch a few videos to find the minimum list of components needed for racking.

If your roof is NOT in good shape, consider reroofing now!

depending on your system size you might need to upgrade your main service panel. Get that one done too!


When you sizing your system, you might want to consider the larger high wattage pv modules. That way you don't have to install too many modules. Again it’s a package of many different components and factors to consider.

I suggest checking your AHJ’s website now to find out any specific requirements for permit such as roof setbacks requirements. This forced me to change my design during permitting process.

It’s a learning experience too!

Good luck!
Feel free to reach out for any questions

Are there situations to consider regarding the wattage of the solar panels themselves. Why are companies that quote turnkey installations not using higher wattage panels? With our roof configuration I have asked the companies and the only answer I get back is "this is the panel we use". Instead of 380 panels why not use 450 watt panels? Learning all I can in this adventure.

1. yes looking grid tie in
2. I plan to leave room to add batteries later.
3. I'm not too adverse to the cost if there are advantages to microinverters vs string
4. we plan to design it ourselves
5. looking at the comparisons on this. I'm new to it all so still doing a lot of reading to catch up.
6. great points - thank you

Our roof is tile being in Las Vegas and in great shape. House built in 2005. We had it checked over.

 

[Pickles]

When you get estimates, ask for the Cash price.
Do your research and understand the components. Panels, Inverters, Batteries.
Do you want AC (micro inverters) or DC connected panels.
You don't have batteries now. But, if you ever want them, plan now for them. Some systems are really expensive to add batteries. Might be worth paying a little more today for the ability to cheaply add batteries later.

Great point. We will plan for allowing upgrading to batteries later.

 

[shashydhar]

Hey Pickles, fellow beginner here. In my last few weeks of understanding and studying the system, I have come to realize that planning a system with batteries is better than connecting to grid. Maybe I am biased because NEM 3.0 was already coming in CA as I was researching but those are my two cents.

Also, if they don't quote names of panels, try asking for brand names. Tell them I want enphase microinverters. Tell them I want REC panels (rec might not happen because they are too expensive lol). Tell them I want this in contract or I want to inspect them when they arrive.

Also, pay attention to where they are placing the panels. A shameless "solar expert" I was talking to was hell bent on placing 5 panels on North side of the my roof and when I called him out, he said he is adding them because he can't do less than 7.5kw and he has to place panels somewhere. Watch out for everything. They will try to take your money at every turn!

 

[Pickles]

Hey Pickles, fellow beginner here. In my last few weeks of understanding and studying the system, I have come to realize that planning a system with batteries is better than connecting to grid. Maybe I am biased because NEM 3.0 was already coming in CA as I was researching but those are my two cents.

Also, if they don't quote names of panels, try asking for brand names. Tell them I want enphase microinverters. Tell them I want REC panels (rec might not happen because they are too expensive lol). Tell them I want this in contract or I want to inspect them when they arrive.

Also, pay attention to where they are placing the panels. A shameless "solar expert" I was talking to was hell bent on placing 5 panels on North side of the my roof and when I called him out, he said he is adding them because he can't do less than 7.5kw and he has to place panels somewhere. Watch out for everything. They will try to take your money at every turn!

Oh I'm already at the understanding of how these sales presentations go. I've had 3 of them now. Worse than talking with a car salesman.
The point about batteries is well taken. The ADT solar pitch today was talking about the California situation.
Yes I have pretty much demanded any of these presentations give me the full run down of parts.
Panel placement already has been interesting to compare their images with one another.

 

[Solarisium]

Are there situations to consider regarding the wattage of the solar panels themselves. Why are companies that quote turnkey installations not using higher wattage panels? With our roof configuration I have asked the companies and the only answer I get back is "this is the panel we use". Instead of 380 panels why not use 450 watt panels? Learning all I can in this adventure.

1. yes looking grid tie in
2. I plan to leave room to add batteries later.
3. I'm not too adverse to the cost if there are advantages to microinverters vs string
4. we plan to design it ourselves
5. looking at the comparisons on this. I'm new to it all so still doing a lot of reading to catch up.
6. great points - thank you

Our roof is tile being in Las Vegas and in great shape. House built in 2005. We had it checked over.

Yes, use higher watt panels as much as possible when make sense. Few things:
Higher watt panels mean larger panels, meaning they'll be heavy,not easy to work with and move them around during installation. But it should not be a factor to stop you using large panels if your situation calls for them. Installation is once-in-a-lifetime and you're done so don't let installing limit you.

When you should use large high watt panels:
1. your roof space is limited. Therefore use higher watt to get the most out of your roof area. Though It is not a general rule of thumb. One must look at their roof and decide.
2. You are using central string inverter and not micro inverters.


You will pay slightly less per watt for panels when using larger panels.
Additionally you will save in racking costs since you have smaller number of panels to install. Also you will save on rapid shutdown devices to use per panel.

Installers use whatever they have. And guess what panels have high profit and are easier to move around and install? Right! The smaller ones! Who pays the extra cost? You, the customer.

If you are doing DIY, you will need some sort of lift/hoist to lift the panels up to the roof.
I built a heavy duty ladder using 2x6 boards, and bought a winch from harbor freight, installed it on the ladder and built a small platform to lift the panels up!
Just did that part yesterday and put 9 heavy panels on the roof and installed them in 4 hours with help of my wife!

I used Solarever 455W, I am string inverter using Sunny Boy and using APSMART rapid shutdown device to meet the code.
Initially I wanted to have micro inverters but there is not micro inverter rated at 455w. An since my roof was limited, I had to use larger panels therefore I was limited to string inverter.
Hope it helps.

 

[Hedges]

Do you want battery backup? If so, design and price out the system up front. Your grid-tie PV selection will have impact on battery system choices.

Random mix of panel orientations and bad shading might make microinverters a better choice.
I like string inverters. I use Sunny Boy with Sunny Island.
A hybrid like SolArk I think is batteries optional. It also uses string of PV panels.

 

[629658]

Yes the Sol Ark can operate grid tie only batteries later if you choose. We love our Sol Ark and it runs our whole house with pool, well, and Geothermal without issue.