How Can a Tier 1 System Make Financial Sense?

[Ampster]

The OP is correct that solar may be too long of a payback primarily because his rates are low. It does make sense for me in California with higher rates. I also drive two EVs and use Tier One equipment and DIY batteries.

 

[Q-Dog]

If payback had been my only consideration I would have done nothing. I built my system to replace a gas generator.

 

[JRH]

RIO is very important to me , I'm not really interested if it's not financially viable

That is an intelligent and respectable trait to have in life…?..Discipline, logic and organization skills are the forces behind most successes in life…. I 100% support a person following what makes it click for him in life. That is having true freedom.. That the most important thing.
J.

 

[JRH]

Ok I’ll bite. What’s RIO?

Rio… it’s a place with mountains ,statues ,hot chicks and money people and where they make some Bond Movies… ???

 

[OPTIMALSOLAR]

Simply, almost always the way to go regarding solar, figure out peak usage during daylight. This is where roi is easiest to capture. Unless you get true kw for kw credits for over production, the less over production the better as to roi.

If a true kw for kw credits for over production load up as much as your home is allowed upto 100 percent reduction.

As mentioned for many roi is only a consideration. Also some one mentioned santan, much of what they sell is used. Used does not qualify for government tax rebate. LEGALLY that is.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Rio… it’s a place with mountains ,statues ,hot chicks and money people and where they make some Bond Movies… ???

Knowing Sam I thought it was something cheeky he thought of.

 

[kendive]

ROI means nothing to me.

Solar is my hobby. I like making and using my own power, I like it even more when the grid goes down, and so does my wife

Same here I can care less about ROI... I wanted the system and the backup batteries. You want ROI buy a house and make it a rental.

And solar at the cabin is a hobby also and nice to have.



.

 

[dougbert]

In my signature I have

"Its the features I need, not the money I spend that matters most"

that is what has driven me for 30 years now

 

[Bkord]

I Pay $0.11/kWh and have a $45 month interconnect fee for net metering. Also $30 month fee. ROI is about 8 years with tax credit, did all the work my self. 12KW solar. The way I see it when the price of grid kWh goes up, my ROI will be better. If not, I still have power in an outage.

 

[JRH]

I Pay $0.11/kWh and have a $45 month interconnect fee for net metering. Also $30 month fee. ROI is about 8 years with tax credit, did all the work my self. 12KW solar. The way I see it when the price of grid kWh goes up, my ROI will be better. If not, I still have power in an outage.

Well put….. and does anybody out there believe that electric rates are Gona stay low as they are?

And if you own a good solid system ,doesn’t that make it more valuable both in utility and in the power you derive from it now and in the future…
Energy prices are sooooo vulnerable to manipulation from up top it is almost a certainty it will go the path of oil- food - housing- medicine- cigarettes , etc..etc..
If a big whig can make more money , it will always go up….
Its what they do…
J.

 

[SamDeleted]

Knowing Sam I thought it was something cheeky he thought of.

Hahaha , no I'm not interested in 'return on investment' , I'm off on holiday next week ?

This'll be me

 

[SamDeleted]

How much will financial viability matter if UK gets more killer hot summers and blackouts get worse?

Even more !!

we're all skint enough as it is over here

If times get much worse, financial viability is just about all we're going to be thinking of

 

[Philip53]

A Tier 1 system can be no more than 10kw (or 12kw of panels using the 120% rule as I understand it). So estimating the PV output using the 75% rule of thumb and a conservative 4 hrs of sunlight per day (4hrs x 12kw x .75) I get 36Kwh per day.

@markpj23, I think you are off on your expected kwh per day calculations. I live in north Louisiana which does not have the sunshine potential you do, and I get considerably better production than you are estimating. I have 10.4 kw of solar, in three arrays, facing SE, SW & South. I can get 50+kwh's per day on a full sunny day in the summer, and up to 40kwh in the winter. And that is using a grid tie Schneider XW6048. By using direct grid connect, with no batteries, better pv panel sun orientation than I have, and a 10kw inverter, you should get a good bit more. Maybe twice what you have figured. And that would make your potential payback look much better.

 

[Hedges]

Blame it on RIO

 

[Ampster]

I live in north Louisisana which does not have the sunshine potential you do

My production varies by season in Northern California. I got 11,700 kWhs from a 9kWh system in the past 12 months. That is an annual factor of 1300.

 

[Philip53]

@Ampster, that is really good. I get about the same, from a little larger system. I should get more, but I don't have 2 of the 3 arrays ideally positioned, and there is some shading. But to get more production, I would need a larger inverter. As it is now, the 3 different facing arrays helps keep the production curve somewhat flat, using mostly max output from the 6kw inverter during the middle 1/2 of the day. I often see 6.2 kw output from the old Schneider XW6048. I do have a couple additional fans blowing on the inverter and SCC's to maintain full output & avoid any output derating.

 

[Shimmy]

A 5-Year ROI on a 20-25 year asset is pretty darn good. Energy inflation is also pretty real, so you could see even better than that.

Of course, the ROI on energy savings is usually better, but those improvements don't always have the same lifespan.

 

[JRH]

@Ampster, that is really good. I get about the same, from a little larger system. I should get more, but I don't have 2 of the 3 arrays ideally positioned, and there is some shading. But to get more production, I would need a larger inverter. As it is now, the 3 different facing arrays helps keep the production curve somewhat flat, using mostly max output from the 6kw inverter during the middle 1/2 of the day. I often see 6.2 kw output from the old Schneider XW6048. I do have a couple additional fans blowing on the inverter and SCC's to maintain full output & avoid any output derating.

Fans can be your friend …….I have a 10 watt high output fan aimed at the bottom of my inverter that helps the internal fan when its warm outside and I get about 150 or more watts usable power by the cooling effect.. tested it all summer and it works great raising the efficiency …..easy to measure and instant feedback on the inverter app showing result…

 

[Nobodybusiness]

The Tiers for solar are defined in the Florida Administrative Code 25-6.065 - not applicable to those outside of FL.

25-6.065 : Interconnection and Metering of Customer-Owned Renewable Generation - Florida Administrative Rules, Law, Code, Register - FAC, FAR, eRulemaking

www.flrules.org

Tier 1 = 10kw AC or less. Requires $100K liability insurance
Tier 2 = 10kw to 100kw AC. Requires $1M liability insurance
Tier 3 = 100Kw to 2Mw AC. Requires $2M liability insurance

What liability? Almost every Grid tie inverter is Anti Island.
Are you buying the insurance through them?
Seems suspect if so.

 

[Shimmy]

What liability? Almost every Grid tie inverter is Anti Island.
Are you buying the insurance through them?
Seems suspect if so.

Quite a scam!!