Buyers Remorse? - I just ordered 5 * 'NEW 8 Pack SAB 3.2v 55ah 176wh 60280 Cells' from Battery Hookup

mimotion

New Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
10
BH has a sale that ends at midnight tonight (7/21). https://batteryhookup.com/products/8x-new-sab-3-2v-55ah-176wh-60280-cells $199 for packs of 8 cells.
I just ordered 5 of these 8x packs for $1040 delivered (using 'DIY' coupon). I'm planning on 8S5P to give me about 7Kwh at 24v.

That seems like a good deal. I pulled the trigger on this due to the pressure of the sale, then immediately wondered if I made a mistake. It looks like EVE cells from Amy at Shenzhen Luyuan are quite popular in the forum, but shipping is a mess right now.

I know the mounting/connection process for these radial cells is very different. The BH site says no need for compression. Just bolt up the bars and you are OK. Are there any issues I should consider with radial cells?

I'm sweating this because I bought 4 of the "BYD" modules from BH when they were a thing. I've fought with them on and off ever since. Mine just aren't reliable. I've top balanced them multiple times but 1 cell or another always seem to run away from the rest of pack after some use. I should have complained to BH when Will pressed them on the issue but I didn't so now here I am. That's a whole other story I can detail but my point here is I want reliable batteries.

So should I cancel this 60280 order and before it's too late (TODAY) and order from Amy, or will I be happy with these 60280 cells?

Also, I plan to use the Overkill BMS but they appear to be on back order. I'm going to reach out to them for an ETA of new stock. Does anyone have thoughts on that? Is there another option I should consider?

I'm going to use an all in one 2Kw Inverter/Charger and add some solar panels later. For now I'll charge with a Honda generator on my boat.

Low temp cut off is an issue as the boat is unmonitored during the winter. I've thought about just disconnecting the bank from charging over winter but I'm worried about the impact of self discharge.

Thank you all in advance for any opinions or suggestions you care to share.

- Robert
 

MurphyGuy

Solar Addict
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
681
Everyone valuates things differently so this is just my opinion.

Right now is a horrible time to be buying used lithium batteries because the pandemic has limited the supply and the prices shot up..

Spring / Summer of 2020 was the lowest price.. since then, the price for them has gone up by almost 40%.
 

mimotion

New Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
10
Everyone valuates things differently so this is just my opinion.

Right now is a horrible time to be buying used lithium batteries because the pandemic has limited the supply and the prices shot up..

Spring / Summer of 2020 was the lowest price.. since then, the price for them has gone up by almost 40%.
Interesting point. Thanks. I feel like $1000 for 7Kwh of cells isn't a bad deal. I'm just not sure about the pros/cons of radial vs. prismatic (?) cells.
On the other hand, they are used as you point out. And I've already been burned once on used cells. Maybe I'd be better off to order new and wait 3 months to get them. I'm honestly not in a huge rush anyway.

Thanks for the feedback Murphy.
 

Bubba1

Solar Addict
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
285
They look like decent cells to me. I considered buying 4. I think you'll be fine. The last cells bought from BH were very good.
 

esouthard

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
14
I think the main challenge is the lack of hardware (busbars, holders, etc) available. BH is pretty straightforward about what's new and what's not, in my experience.
 

mimotion

New Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
10
They look like decent cells to me. I considered buying 4. I think you'll be fine. The last cells bought from BH were very good.
Thanks Bubba. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

Now I have one yea and one sort of nay. :) Any tie breakers?

Also thoughts on any of the other points would be much appreciated. I can repost the BMS question in that section.
 

mimotion

New Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
10
I think the main challenge is the lack of hardware (busbars, holders, etc) available. BH is pretty straightforward about what's new and what's not, in my experience.
Good point. I see Amy can supply all the hardware as well.

I haven't looked yet but I assume some folks have discussed decent sources for copper bar stock on the site. I'm sure it's not cheap so it should factor in to my costs. I have a bandsaw and drill press and can easily make up my own bars.

From the pic on the BH page it looks like someone just used the bars as the structure to hold a lot of cells. Those bars look like Aluminum to me. They are wide enough to provide some structure. I'm not sure about using AL for bus bars though. Is that common? Another question to post...

Thanks!
 

Just John

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
2,390
Thanks Bubba. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

Now I have one yea and one sort of nay. :) Any tie breakers?

Also thoughts on any of the other points would be much appreciated. I can repost the BMS question in that section.
All I can say is the 105AH grade A Eve cells are about $520 for 8, and wait 3 months from Amy. They really are grade A. Very happy with them.
 

MurphyGuy

Solar Addict
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
681
Interesting point. Thanks. I feel like $1000 for 7Kwh of cells isn't a bad deal. I'm just not sure about the pros/cons of radial vs. prismatic (?) cells.
On the other hand, they are used as you point out. And I've already been burned once on used cells. Maybe I'd be better off to order new and wait 3 months to get them. I'm honestly not in a huge rush anyway.

Thanks for the feedback Murphy.

You're fine.. its not a bad deal, just not a really good deal either.. If the new wave of Covid doesn't do anything significant then prices will start dropping quickly sometime around December..

They're short on microchips so new car sales are slowing.. once they pick back up and drunk kids start crashing again, the prices will come back down.
 

ejfluhr

New Member
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
11
I recently bought a SAB 8-pack from BH, with the holders and busbars, to build a 12v x 110Ah battery pack for camping. I used a 120A Overkill BMS with the 3x1ft leads; not my preference but it shipped right away and I needed it within the month. I just finished assembling it into a nice Rtic 18" case with terminals and a battery meter, and tested it briefly with a 1500W inverter. It's worked well so far. Those cells are -heavy- but look/feel like good quality and $25 for a 55Ah cell, or ~$0.46/Ah, seems OK to me for something you can get "right away." I am pleased.
 

mimotion

New Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
10
Thanks for the encouragement EJ. I received the cells in good condition on Sat. They were packed quite well.

I didn't know BH sold holders or busbars for these. A search doesn't show them on their site, at least that I can find. Did you just buy the little 2 hole busbars and stack them? I'm thinking about busbar and mounting options. I like what someone did in this picture. It looks like they used AL, as CU would be super expensive. I'm going to start a new thread and post all my cell measurements and thoughts on mounting them to build a battery. I'll ask some questions about busbars and hopefully the discussion will help others as well.

Thank you all for your input and help on this.

- Robert
 

wild01

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
135
I just got mine in.they seem fine. They are very heavy for their amp got rating. Hopefully they haven't been "rerated". Bhu had the 8s bms in stock when I ordered. Might check and see if they still do. It's the same one overkill sells.
 

mimotion

New Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
10
I just got mine in.they seem fine. They are very heavy for their amp got rating. Hopefully they haven't been "rerated". Bhu had the 8s bms in stock when I ordered. Might check and see if they still do. It's the same one overkill sells.
Interesting observation on the cell weight. They are heavy and they don't say anything about rerating them. I'm curious to hear if you go with the BHU BMS and what you think of it. It's only $75, which is nice, but I'm not encouraged by their "The issue we have with android is some phone bluetooth settings block the app. If you are good with phones I'm sure you can figure it out. We recommend not using the bluetooth until the app is more stable which it should be in the future. We can't give technical support for the bluetooth device." story. They have an add on Computer Interface as well for an extra cost.

Will recommends Overkill Solar's BMS. It's a bit more expensive but includes bluetooth access with no excuses. Their USB (PC) interface is an extra $9. I'm not sure how different the 2 BMS units are. They look pretty much to identical in the photos. I wonder if anyone on the forum has experience with both?

Thanks for weighing in Wild01.
 

wild01

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
135
Interesting observation on the cell weight. They are heavy and they don't say anything about rerating them. I'm curious to hear if you go with the BHU BMS and what you think of it. It's only $75, which is nice, but I'm not encouraged by their "The issue we have with android is some phone bluetooth settings block the app. If you are good with phones I'm sure you can figure it out. We recommend not using the bluetooth until the app is more stable which it should be in the future. We can't give technical support for the bluetooth device." story. They have an add on Computer Interface as well for an extra cost.

Will recommends Overkill Solar's BMS. It's a bit more expensive but includes bluetooth access with no excuses. Their USB (PC) interface is an extra $9. I'm not sure how different the 2 BMS units are. They look pretty much to identical in the photos. I wonder if anyone on the forum has experience with both?

Thanks for weighing in Wild01.
They're the same bms with the same limitations. Built in the same factory to the same specs. The only difference was that overkill tested and guaranteed theirs, but lately their backorder situation has made this a moot point imo. Not much point in paying twice as much for a warantee if you have to wait for backordered stock if there's a problem.
 

ejfluhr

New Member
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
11
BTW, I just stress tested my battery pack during this past week. It acted as shore power for my RV feeding a Samlex 1500W inverter, and being fed by 800W of panels connected to a Victron 700W SCC. It worked great, very happy with the batteries and Overkill BMS + app. My highest loads were an induction plate cooking at 1000W, and a 45min run of the AC at ~1100W while generating ~500W of solar. The batteries seemed to handle continuous 100A output nicely. I'm running 4s2p config so that turns into almost 1C per cell. Overnight, we ran my fathers CPAP and a fan, typically discharging to 50% SOC by morning. Max power generated was ~660W;. I occasionally saw 40A - 50A charge rates, which could be up to 0.5C.


I hope your setup goes equally well!
 
Last edited:

mimotion

New Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
10
They're the same bms with the same limitations. Built in the same factory to the same specs. The only difference was that overkill tested and guaranteed theirs, but lately their backorder situation has made this a moot point imo. Not much point in paying twice as much for a warantee if you have to wait for backordered stock if there's a problem.
Thanks for that info. I thought they looked identical but you never know these days. They happen to be in stock at Overkill right now, but you make a good point on the price/warranty.
 

mimotion

New Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
10
BTW, I just stress tested my battery pack during this past week. It acted as shore power for my RV feeding a Samlex 1500W inverter, and being fed by 800W of panels connected to a Victron 700W SCC. It worked great, very happy with the batteries and Overkill BMS + app. My highest loads were an induction plate cooking at 1000W, and a 45min run of the AC at ~1100W while generating ~500W of solar. The batteries seemed to handle continuous 100A output nicely. I'm running 4s2p config so that turns into almost 1C per cell. Overnight, we ran my fathers CPAP and a fan, typically discharging to 50% SOC by morning. Max power generated was ~660W;. I occasionally saw 40A - 50A charge rates, which could be up to 0.5C.


I hope your setup goes equally well!
Man that sounds great EJ! Congratulations. I have high hopes for my system. I bought one of the all in one inverter/charger/solar units. I'm going to segregate my boat's break box into inverter output breakers and shore power only breakers which will be a bit of a project. Thank you for the update.
 

BobFlyer

New Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
19
I recently bought a SAB 8-pack from BH, with the holders and busbars, to build a 12v x 110Ah battery pack for camping. I used a 120A Overkill BMS with the 3x1ft leads; not my preference but it shipped right away and I needed it within the month. I just finished assembling it into a nice Rtic 18" case with terminals and a battery meter, and tested it briefly with a 1500W inverter. It's worked well so far. Those cells are -heavy- but look/feel like good quality and $25 for a 55Ah cell, or ~$0.46/Ah, seems OK to me for something you can get "right away." I am pleased.
I am looking at the SAB 8 Pack for basic setup you have. What are the Holders you mention? What is the number of the Busbars? I see busbar 40152 listed at 1.15 ea, but nothing on the holders. Is this the correct product busbar for the SAB-8 Cells? Did you get the Overkill BMS thru BH? I am ready to give these a try. New to the Solar Generator setups... Thanks in advance
 

ejfluhr

New Member
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
11
BH previously sold a "kit" that included holders, busbars, and washers/nuts. That kit has come and gone several times from their website; it seems to be gone-gone most recently but you never really know when stuff is coming back. You may want to contact them to see if they have any of the parts; maybe they don't have enough for the full kit but could sell you the holders and/or busbars.

IIRC, I received 6 bus bars: 3 as 4-hole (all horizontal) and 3 as 2-hole. I cut one of the 4-hole busbars in half to make 2x 2-hole to meet my need. I made 2 2s2p "batteries" (so 6.4v 110Ah) with 2 2-hole and 1 4-hole, then connected these in series to make my final 12.8v 110Ah battery. I had to fit it this way for that Rtic carrying case I already owned (2 rows of 4 batteries, one stacked on top of the other).

I bought the BMS from Overkill, not BH as they were out of stock at the time and I needed it right away. Because of that, I had to buy the 12"-leads version of the BMS rather than my preference for the M6-terminal variant. I really liked the BMS app, not perfect but very usable IMO.

While these are heavy cells and not the most dense form factor, I really like not worrying about compression vs. swelling behavior. Plus, to my understanding, there isn't really a requirement for "this side up" which helps when installed in a carrying case that may lay down on multiple edges. I've been debating buying a second set to make another battery, just watching to see if they sell the kit again. ;-)
 
Last edited:

BobFlyer

New Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
19
Thanks for the heads up on potential kit parts. I am in the process of asking sales on what is available via E mail.

Good info on bus Bars...

Regards Bob
 
Top