diy solar

diy solar

charging/discharging LiFePo efficiently to maximize life

defed

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system: 1800w panels, xantrex xw-mppt60-150, (2) sok 48v lifepo, still shopping for a new inverter.

i'm a low use electricity user, even fully on grid - about 6kwh/day. i use my solar as backup power and to run selective loads. i have a question about using the lifepo efficiently...

if i run the selected loads all day (presuming no sun), i might use 3kwh (30% DOD on 10kwh bank). so the next day, the sun is out, i start recharging and using solar to power the loads...i'd probably get back to 100% SOC. overnight, i would draw down maybe 1kwh. so the next day i'm at 90% and if there is sun, i would recharge full again. with FLA, this worked fine, but i don't think it's that good to run the lifepo at a DOD of 10%-30% and then charge back to 100%, is it? but i hate to just lose full sun for 2 days while i wait for my batteries to get below 20% SOC before being charged.

is there a way (probably through AIO cc/inverters) to NOT charge the batteries but allow the solar power to go thru to power loads? i don't think i want to run the battery down a little, and recharge/partially recharge the next day, run down more, partially recharge, etc. right now, i just turn the c/c off until the batteries are low, then i turn the inverter off instead when they need to be charged. so i'm wasting a ton of power.

hope that makes sense.
 
Your xantrex SCC only know how to apply a charge current to a battery.
If your loads are pulled off this same battery or bus bar while it is receiving a charge, there is no distinction between what comes from the SCC and what comes from/to the battery.

What is the basis for your concern? Are you trying to reduce wear on your battery?
 
Your xantrex SCC only know how to apply a charge current to a battery.
If your loads are pulled off this same battery or bus bar while it is receiving a charge, there is no distinction between what comes from the SCC and what comes from/to the battery.

What is the basis for your concern? Are you trying to reduce wear on your battery?

these are the scenarios i envision:

summer: use 2kwh/day. but since it's sunny, the battery would maybe run down to 90% SOC over night, fills up during the day and the excess from the c/c runs the loads (yes, going through the battery, but not really charging at this point). so i would repeatedly be using only about 10% of the battery (because during the day it wouldn't be draining it, only at night) and then recharging to 100% SOC.

winter (and rainy periods in summer): use the same 2kwh/day (80% SOC), but not every day it would get recharged - depending on the sun. so it might go to 80% SOC, let's say it gets 1kwh charge (90% SOC). next day, another 2kwh used (70% SOC) and give it back another 1kwh in charge (80% SOC), then use another 2kwh (60% SOC) while adding 1kwh (70% SOC)....and so on (some days it may get charged more or less). i would have to shut it down when it got low enough.

neither scenario seems particularly good for lifepo. so i wanted to know if there was a way to use the available sun to power loads w/o charging the battery. w/ my current c/c, everything has to go through the battery, so it's probably not possible w/ what i have (but is it possible w/ any equipment?). i was wondering what happens if i lower the float and re-charge voltage on the c/c to say 52v. not sure if it just won't turn on until the battery voltage reaches those levels (probably the case).

right now, i put the c/c into standby while i'm running the batteries down (wasting a ton of sun power) and then i turn off the inverter when it's low enough and switch the c/c back on until it's full (again, wasting power) and start again.
 
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these are the scenarios i envision:

summer: use 2kwh/day. but since it's sunny, the battery would maybe run down to 90% SOC over night, fills up during the day and the excess from the c/c runs the loads (yes, going through the battery, but not really charging at this point). so i would repeatedly be using only about 10% of the battery (because during the day it wouldn't be draining it, only at night) and then recharging to 100% SOC.

No worries whatsoever.

winter (and rainy periods in summer): use the same 2kwh/day (80% SOC), but not every day it would get recharged - depending on the sun. so it might go to 80% SOC, let's say it gets 1kwh charge (90% SOC). next day, another 2kwh used (70% SOC) and give it back another 1kwh in charge (80% SOC), then use another 2kwh (60% SOC) while adding 1kwh (70% SOC)....and so on (some days it may get charged more or less). i would have to shut it down when it got low enough.

Okay. The biggest consideration is that batteries spend enough time at elevated voltage to ensure the BMS can keep the cells in balance.

neither scenario seems particularly good for lifepo. so i wanted to know if there was a way to use the available sun to power loads w/o charging the battery. w/ my current c/c, everything has to go through the battery, so it's probably not possible w/ what i have (but is it possible w/ any equipment?). i was wondering what happens if i lower the float and re-charge voltage on the c/c to say 52v. not sure if it just won't turn on until the battery voltage reaches those levels (probably the case).

Nor are they particularly bad. In fact, they're not bad at all.

Maximizing life of LFP involves charging to lower voltage with lower current .The most stress occurs at high current charging at high voltage (3.55-3.65V).

Limiting voltage to 3.45V/cell limits both voltage and current at peak voltage. WIll typically get about 98% charged in this manner.

Charge to 3.45V/cell with a 2 hour absorption period every day solar is available. Float at 3.375V/cell.
 
No worries whatsoever.



Okay. The biggest consideration is that batteries spend enough time at elevated voltage to ensure the BMS can keep the cells in balance.



Nor are they particularly bad. In fact, they're not bad at all.

Maximizing life of LFP involves charging to lower voltage with lower current .The most stress occurs at high current charging at high voltage (3.55-3.65V).

Limiting voltage to 3.45V/cell limits both voltage and current at peak voltage. WIll typically get about 98% charged in this manner.

Charge to 3.45V/cell with a 2 hour absorption period every day solar is available. Float at 3.375V/cell.

initially, i thought that my usage pattern would be great and lifepo would last forever not being abused, but then i had read that it was bad to only run them down a little then recharge....that they needed a deeper discharge.

the battery specs call for 57.6v (3.6v) bulk/absorb and 55.2v (3.45v) at float. are you saying that it would be better to lower those figures to those that you suggest? is this based solely on the usage requirements or are they values generally used in lifepo?

how often should they 'spend enough time at elevated voltage to ensure the BMS can keep the cells in balance'? every day? once a wk? i don't have a problem w/ manually shutting it down so it can do this (i'm always turning stuff on and off any way). i don't think i have to worry about too much current...the most i think i could ever see is 35a under perfect conditions.

i'm not sure about getting it to 'absorb' for 2 hrs. right now, when it gets to 57.6v, it goes to absorb but for about 3 minutes, then to float. this might be because the bms is cutting it off (i'm thinking when 1 cell gets somewhere around 3.6v it goes to over voltage protection)...where charging to 3.4v would avoid this (i think, still learning about these batteries!).
 
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The lithium batteries have two aging components:

First is cycles - they are rated for a LOT of cycles! 4000 or so the way we use batteries. Dropping the battery to 80% is 1/5 of a cycle - 4000 /1/5th = 20,000 days = 54 years. So we are not going to wear out the battery that way.

For us - Time will be the issue. They haven’t been making these batteries that long. I have heard in some boats that put In Lithium’s 8 to 10 years ago (when they were really expensive!) that they are at about 60% of original capacity. Our current batteries are made slightly different- will we get better or worse life… who knows.

By not FULLY charging the battery that probably helps - my settings are bulk - 3.55v and float 3.375. I will miss a little capacity in the battery- but I really never run it that low.

Good Luck
 
The lithium batteries have two aging components:

First is cycles - they are rated for a LOT of cycles! 4000 or so the way we use batteries. Dropping the battery to 80% is 1/5 of a cycle - 4000 /1/5th = 20,000 days = 54 years. So we are not going to wear out the battery that way.

For us - Time will be the issue. They haven’t been making these batteries that long. I have heard in some boats that put In Lithium’s 8 to 10 years ago (when they were really expensive!) that they are at about 60% of original capacity. Our current batteries are made slightly different- will we get better or worse life… who knows.

By not FULLY charging the battery that probably helps - my settings are bulk - 3.55v and float 3.375. I will miss a little capacity in the battery- but I really never run it that low.

Good Luck

that's what i was thinking, if i only used 20% (or 1/5 a cycle as you say) that it would give me many more days (as you describe) but then i had read/been told that it doesn't work that way! as i said, i'm still learning about these so i can only go by the info i find (be it right or wrong!).

i am definitely a gentle user - i don't use a lot of electricity even from the grid.
 
Let me share my own experience. I'm also using very little kwh per day usually and I was having similar concerns about usage of LFP and + some more considerations which I will write later. So what I end up with after some experimenting: I set "absorb" voltage to 13.4 (which is 3.35 per cell) (and float set to the same voltage but "absorb time" set to 10 hours (later I'll explain why) but actually voltage on battery at the end reaches even 13.57 sometimes (3.3925 per cell). Also what I did is I limited the max charge current to 15A (battery is 280Ah) because otherwise the battery is under charge under too high current especially at the beginning of charging at morning and charging to almost full too soon (so why keep the battery under that much stress if there is anyway more than enough time to charge it to almost full even with half day and even on cloudy day). Actually it is charging up to 95% of its capacity (according to the watt-hours counter in the BMS). But it's less stress on the battery if it was not under too high voltage and not under too high charge current. Now about loads during charging and why "absorb time" set to 10h and it is actually never goes to "float mode". Because according to my experiments if it switched to "float mode" then as soon as some load pulling energy then the current actually goes from the battery until the voltage drops enough only then the current starts going from the charge controller. In "absorb" mode current actually being pulled from the controller and nothing pulling from the battery until the load is not higher than that "max charge current" that I set. That's why when I'm turning some higher loads I'm rising that "max charge current" accordingly. Also if the load is high enough and it's turning on at the time when the battery voltage is already 13.4 or higher then I'm temporarily rising that "absorb" voltage to 13.5V and that's helping perfectly to make enough voltage difference to pull enough current from controller to not allow it be pulled from battery instead. (I really don't know how it's happening that battery's voltage (by BMS report) becomes higher than that "absorb" level, but it's happening actually). Charging the battery to 276Ah SoC then discharging during the night to 200-220Ah so actually cycling between 98% and 71% which is actually not the best. I guess the best would be between 80% and 53% :)
I think we could set that "absorb voltage" even lower (to actually charge the battery to 80%) if we will be sure that it will have enough energy for the night and that anyway it can be charged back during the next day to make enough power for the next night.
And about the top balancing. Initially it should be top balanced at 3.65 per cell using a power supply (charger) set accordingly with all cells in parallel. If it is done once then the battery must be OK for long time. Just in case I guess it would be enough to test that once a several months. Setting "absorb voltage" to 3.6 per cell and closely monitoring each cell's voltages at the end of charging using BMS's monitoring. It will show if cells still perfectly balanced. If they are not balanced I highly doubt that the BMS's passive balancing system with its less than 1A balancing current could help much anyway. And anyway better with lower "max charge current".
I wish and would be very much thankful if more advanced users correct me if I'm making mistakes in my understanding.
 
system: 1800w panels, xantrex xw-mppt60-150, (2) sok 48v lifepo, still shopping for a new inverter.

i'm a low use electricity user, even fully on grid - about 6kwh/day. i use my solar as backup power and to run selective loads. i have a question about using the lifepo efficiently...

if i run the selected loads all day (presuming no sun), i might use 3kwh (30% DOD on 10kwh bank). so the next day, the sun is out, i start recharging and using solar to power the loads...i'd probably get back to 100% SOC. overnight, i would draw down maybe 1kwh. so the next day i'm at 90% and if there is sun, i would recharge full again. with FLA, this worked fine, but i don't think it's that good to run the lifepo at a DOD of 10%-30% and then charge back to 100%, is it? but i hate to just lose full sun for 2 days while i wait for my batteries to get below 20% SOC before being charged.

is there a way (probably through AIO cc/inverters) to NOT charge the batteries but allow the solar power to go thru to power loads? i don't think i want to run the battery down a little, and recharge/partially recharge the next day, run down more, partially recharge, etc. right now, i just turn the c/c off until the batteries are low, then i turn the inverter off instead when they need to be charged. so i'm wasting a ton of power.

hope that makes sense.
Sounds to me you should add some more loads. Understand that solar charging batteries (does not matter chemistry) is never going to be ideal. So it is a game of compromises. If your use case causes your batteries to fail earlier than some other use case you can adopt a different one or simply accept that batteries are consumables. Use and replace.

I think some people spend way too much mental effort on micromanaging their batteries.
 
initially, i thought that my usage pattern would be great and lifepo would last forever not being abused, but then i had read that it was bad to only run them down a little then recharge....that they needed a deeper discharge.

Incorrect.

the battery specs call for 57.6v (3.6v) bulk/absorb and 55.2v (3.45v) at float. are you saying that it would be better to lower those figures to those that you suggest?

Yes

is this based solely on the usage requirements or are they values generally used in lifepo?

That.

how often should they 'spend enough time at elevated voltage to ensure the BMS can keep the cells in balance'? every day? once a wk? i don't have a problem w/ manually shutting it down so it can do this (i'm always turning stuff on and off any way). i don't think i have to worry about too much current...the most i think i could ever see is 35a under perfect conditions.

As frequently as possible. It just depends on the quality of your cells. The 2 hours @ 3.45V goes a long way towards that goal.

i'm not sure about getting it to 'absorb' for 2 hrs. right now, when it gets to 57.6v, it goes to absorb but for about 3 minutes, then to float.

When charging to 3.55-3.65V/cell absorption is usually pretty quick.

this might be because the bms is cutting it off (i'm thinking when 1 cell gets somewhere around 3.6v it goes to over voltage protection)...where charging to 3.4v would avoid this (i think, still learning about these batteries!).

If the BMS is cutting off, your cells are imbalanced. You should correct this ASAP. This is far more of a concern than anything you have mentioned thus far. Routine use of BMS to cut charge can wear out a BMS and cause premature failure.
 
If the BMS is cutting off, your cells are imbalanced. You should correct this ASAP. This is far more of a concern than anything you have mentioned thus far. Routine use of BMS to cut charge can wear out a BMS and cause premature failure.

they are brand new, i have 3 cycles (100% to about 20% each time) on them. i was told by the retailer that it could take several cycles to get them to balance. again, i'm new to this type of battery so still learning. at the current c/c settings of 3.6v bulk/absorb, it gets there (or at least a cpl cells) it goes into OVP (from the manual that means it shut off and is starting the balance), the cell ranges may be 3.6v-3.45v, then everything eventually 'balances' down around 3.4v after a few hrs. i was thinking eventually they should all balance higher as the cells come closer together. during discharge, and even right now at 50%, the cells are all nearly identical.

i don't know what the value is, but my guess is that the bms cuts off around 3.6v...if i was only charging to 3.45v, would they balance better/easier as the bms would never shut it off by getting to 3.6v?
 
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Sounds to me you should add some more loads. Understand that solar charging batteries (does not matter chemistry) is never going to be ideal. So it is a game of compromises. If your use case causes your batteries to fail earlier than some other use case you can adopt a different one or simply accept that batteries are consumables. Use and replace.

I think some people spend way too much mental effort on micromanaging their batteries.

well that's just it...at $3300, they aren't exactly disposable use and replace...i want to make sure i'm not inadvertently shortening their life by doing something that they don't like. once i 'figure it out' i will spend almost no mental effort on them, but until then, i'm just trying to get a handle on it. if my scenarios are not going to be detrimental to them...ie shorten their life to 1000 cycles/3 yrs...then i will just run them.
 
well that's just it...at $3300, they aren't exactly disposable use and replace...i want to make sure i'm not inadvertently shortening their life by doing something that they don't like. once i 'figure it out' i will spend almost no mental effort on them, but until then, i'm just trying to get a handle on it. if my scenarios are not going to be detrimental to them...ie shorten their life to 1000 cycles/3 yrs...then i will just run them.
Certainly you want to use recommended charge voltages. Even at $3300 they are still not something that is eternal. If in your use case they last 3 years than that is the cost of doing business. Just like buying electricity from the utility has a cost.
 
Certainly you want to use recommended charge voltages. Even at $3300 they are still not something that is eternal. If in your use case they last 3 years than that is the cost of doing business. Just like buying electricity from the utility has a cost.

sure, but for $3300, i can buy nearly 10yrs worth of grid power. i didn't get into this thinking i was going to save $, it's an expensive hobby that will never pay for itself and backup power (i should have just gotten a propane standby generator and saved myself thousands of dollars LOL) ...but i still don't want to throw money away doing something that will kill them when i can try to figure out the best plan and adjust to it. i suppose no one can say that even if i have a good plan that they will last longer than a few yrs.

as far as adding more loads - even if i ran 100% on the solar (which i can't), that would only take the batteries down to 50% per day. which leads me to another variable in the scenarios - especially winter - and that's backup power. i don't want to have them down to 50% on a daily basis then get hit w/ a 3 day power outage w/ little sun and not be able to run vital loads such as the furnace and fridge. yea, i know, all of these things probably won't fit into 1 nice little box. to do 1 may have sacrifices to another aspect.
 
Just out of curiosity, what battery(s) do you have and do they have a smart BMS that can be monitored and adjusted.

As others have alluded, the BMS cutting out regularly is by far the ONLY thing that stands out (to me) as being an issue for battery longevity.
 
Just out of curiosity, what battery(s) do you have and do they have a smart BMS that can be monitored and adjusted.

As others have alluded, the BMS cutting out regularly is by far the ONLY thing that stands out (to me) as being an issue for battery longevity.

SOK sk48v100. i don't think it's smart bms. i gather, though may be wrong, that the bms is acting as it should....from the battery manual:

Automatic Cell Balancer​

The BMS also features a cell balancer; when charging reaches nearly 100% full, the cell voltage rises rapidly. From the factory, the charge level within each cell differs slightly, this means that the entire pack can only charge until the fullest cell reaches its peak voltage. If it weren’t for the automatic cell balancer, natural drift among cells would cause major capacity loss.

When you charge the battery up for the first time, it is normal for the BMS to trigger OVP (over-voltage protection). This OVP is triggered because the BMS monitored the level of each cell and stops charging if the voltage is too high. When OVP occurs, the cell balancer is simultaneously working, bleeding energy from only the completely full cells, so that all 16 cells can charge as a group.

The initial balancing process is slow and typically takes about 10 to 15 charge cycles before perfect cell balancing has occured. Cells are considered perfectly balanced when the voltage deviation is within 30mv, as indicated on the cell voltages battery screen. Cell imbalances on brand new, fully charged batteries can reach as high as 250mv. This is normal and no cause for concern. The only time to worry is if there is a large difference at a state of charge between 95% ~ 5%.


and Dexter from current connected has said the same:

the BMS will act to protect the cells if any of the voltages get out of range, as you noted. If your seeing 3.4-3.6v, then you are pretty close and you should see it balance out over around 10-15 cycles.


so i was going to cycle them several times and see what happens. i do need to try and keep better track of the cell voltages so i can see if they are in fact getting closer.
 
<quote>SOK sk48v100. i don't think it's smart bms.</quote>
It has the smart bms actually. I didn't found yet the info which exactly BMS that is, but the battery has communication ports so most probably there are some apps (for phone or for a PC) are available to connect to it for monitoring and hopefully at least see what settings are pre-set there (exact voltage of the "overvoltage cut-off" per cell is most interesting) and may be even able to change them (if it is above 3.65/per cell I would definitely bring it down to 3.65). Also "balance start voltage" (it considered to be better set it to start at 3.4-3.45 per cell), although with under 1A balancing current it can't help much if your charging current is higher) ; The most useful info about that battery I just found out is that "Cells are not welded (user replaceable)" :) No, don't worry, I'm not going to recommend you to change them but that's a good sign because if worse come to worse you can easily (and very usefully) re-arrange them to parallel connection to do real practical helping-and-fully-solving-the-problem-to-fully-top-balance-them using a 3.65V CC/CV charger, not a big problem if that charger will be even 5A max current so it could take long time for 16x100Ah cells (but we will do estimate calculation how long it can take potentially) but it will be significantly better anyway rather than expecting the BMS to balance them within "10-15 cycles"....

I read this text from the user manual which you quoted and it seems that those user manuals are not the best source to learn about LFP batteries. Let's see what they are saying: "From the factory, the charge level within each cell differs slightly", "initial balancing process is slow and typically takes about 10 to 15 charge cycles" - ok but wait a moment: you are a manufacturer, you building complete ready battery, why you didn't perfectly match and top balance your cells before put them into that battery? ; "(a difference) ... can reach as high as 250mv. This is normal and no cause for concern" - NO, it's definitely NOT NORMAL ! too much to me ! (Ok, may be it's still useable with that difference but why leave it like that if we can easily bring that difference to as low as 0.005V ? What means the "250mV difference" is that while one cell is already 3.650V the other one can be still at 3.400 V ? too far from "normal" I guess...
Then what other thing they wrote was "OVP triggers and BMS will disconnect charging and then "balancing will start" ? What? Actually the balancer should "start" yet before that - under charging yet after cells reached 3.4 - 3.45 each... But if you want that balancer (under 1A its max balancing current) be able to balance then total charge current should be not much higher than the same 1A as I understand; otherwise see: it trying to "pull" let's say 1A from a cell but total current goes INTO that cell is 10A so how much that can help balancing them? anyway when they are near fully charged the voltage on a cell rises too rapidly - no time to top balance evenly. I was trying to balance cells that way in my self-assembled 4S pack - never achieved even with an active balancer 5A max balancing current!
Anyway, we can still perfectly use the battery with charging it up to 95% (setting "absorb" (i.e. max charge voltage) to 16x3.45V) and with "nothing to worry about" if cells are really have the same capacity but just only small difference in their SoC (=small voltage differences between cells at their almost full SoC, an example of not much is 30mV, i.e. : 3.64 -- 3.61 ) (another example is: my cells now at 5mV diff: 3.3601-3.3604-3.3605-3.3606 and that is at 93% SoC according to Ah counter and still under charge current of 7A for 280Ah capacity but I know surely they are still not perfectly top balanced ! If I bring them to 3.65/cell then some would reach 3.65 while some others will be still at 3.58). Of course if cells have different CAPACITY then we can charge the whole pack to the max capacity which is not more than the CAPACITY of the lowest cell (not by voltage or SoC - but by real its full Ah CAPACITY) - but that should not happen with cells inside of a manufacturer-built battery! to me , even the SoC difference should not happen more than by 30mV difference between cells at near fully charged state.

And you are absolutely right , why to "waste" (for nothing in return) expensive battery's resource if we easily can use it that way to extend it's life significantly. That's the reason why I'm saying why charge it with high current to full within 1 hour if we can perfectly do the same within 5 hours with lower current. Also: what is most affecting the longevity of LFP? - 1) higher temperatures 2) higher current of charge/discharge 3) longer time under higher charging voltages. All of those can be EASILY avoided with no practical disadvantage.
1) 25-27 degrees Celsius is OK and I guess up to 32 ambient temperature is still OK but higher is not so good as I remember,
2) it's perfectly normal the charge/discharge current up to 0.2C (for 100Ah battery it's = 20A so with "48V" battery it's about 1000 watts) , it's "capable" of enduring up to 1C current but that is what significantly reducing the cycle-life
3) much better allow charging up to 3.5 per cell rather than always to 3.6 per cell (the difference of SoC between 3.5V and 3.65V is very little because after 3.55V under charging the voltage rises very quick!). I would use above 3.6V per cell ONLY for top balancing.)

So my recommendation to you is: yes, try to do , as you said, "cycle them several times and see what happens. i do need to try and keep better track of the cell voltages so i can see if they are in fact getting closer." and see , but I guess it will not anyway perfectly top balance if was significant mismatch of SoC between cells from the beginning (if the manufacturer didn't done their "homework" good enough :) then no problem again but in that case the best thing to do is to connect cells in parallel and do real perfect top-balance using 3.65V CC/CV charger (power supply). After that be perfectly fine for the next 5 years and YES, definitely under normal usage that batteries should last minimum 10 years until their real capacities start declining to about 80% of their "new"-state capacities.

Estimate calculation of time needed to top-balance using 5A max current CC/CV charger for 100Ah x 16 cells: When calculating that we can take into account that before connecting them in parallel to that charger they will be already pre-charged up to about 90% even more. So it's only 10% to charge that way. So 10Ah left. 16 x 10Ah = 160Ah with 16cells connected in parallel. 160/5A = it will take max 32 hours estimated. Not so big problem anyway. But may be your charger will be even 10A.
 
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The lithium batteries have two aging components:

First is cycles - they are rated for a LOT of cycles! 4000 or so the way we use batteries. Dropping the battery to 80% is 1/5 of a cycle - 4000 /1/5th = 20,000 days = 54 years. So we are not going to wear out the battery that way.

For us - Time will be the issue. They haven’t been making these batteries that long. I have heard in some boats that put In Lithium’s 8 to 10 years ago (when they were really expensive!) that they are at about 60% of original capacity. Our current batteries are made slightly different- will we get better or worse life… who knows.

By not FULLY charging the battery that probably helps - my settings are bulk - 3.55v and float 3.375. I will miss a little capacity in the battery- but I really never run it that low.

Good Luck
This is the key to your question OP... since you're such a light user I'd honestly just use the standard charging profiles and forget about it. You could try and tune your battery to increase longevity, but when people talk about number of cycles in a battery the end result isn't a dead battery, just reduced capacity. Most of the current LFP batteries claim ~3500 full cycles to 80% of rated capacity. That's nearly 10 years of full cycles daily! Even after those 10 years are up you'd still have ~80% of the initial capacity, which with your use cases is still enough for 4 full days.

There's a lot of good data on the site linked below about ways to tune your max/min state of charge to increase longevity, but you're missing the forest for the trees with this thought exercise.

 
since you're such a light user I'd honestly just use the standard charging profiles and forget about it.
I think that since OP is a light user that using conservative settings would meet daily needs. And considering the BMS longevity, using the current "standard charging profiles" the BMS is going to hit cell over volt quite a few times. I cannot tell if this is just the first 15 cycles or whether this will happen a couple times a week.
There is little data on how long a BMS that hits its limits is supposed to last. 10-25 times likely ok. 100 times seems like it might be pushing it. 1000 times i would be wildly surprised if a BMS makes it this far. This is just my gut feel, i've never worn out a BMS (i am a conservative charger).

So my point (finally!), is that its not just cell longevity but the battery longevity when considering the BMS too.

Besides, what are the downsides of conservative charging? The only thing i see is that you maybe get a very slightly reduced daily capacity (but almost certainly more than a battery that stops charging because BMS cuts out!)
 
I think that since OP is a light user that using conservative settings would meet daily needs. And considering the BMS longevity, using the current "standard charging profiles" the BMS is going to hit cell over volt quite a few times. I cannot tell if this is just the first 15 cycles or whether this will happen a couple times a week.
There is little data on how long a BMS that hits its limits is supposed to last. 10-25 times likely ok. 100 times seems like it might be pushing it. 1000 times i would be wildly surprised if a BMS makes it this far. This is just my gut feel, i've never worn out a BMS (i am a conservative charger).

So my point (finally!), is that its not just cell longevity but the battery longevity when considering the BMS too.

Besides, what are the downsides of conservative charging? The only thing i see is that you maybe get a very slightly reduced daily capacity (but almost certainly more than a battery that stops charging because BMS cuts out!)

are you saying that the bms hitting limits too many times, which it is designed to do, will kill it? that if it shuts off charging because a cell got to 3.61v more than 30 times, it's (maybe) done for? looking back, sunshine did say the same thing....that seems strange to me, that it's made to do that but doing so will destroy it... from the current connected literature, and from what Dexter said, it seemed normal for it to go to OVP, at least while it's getting things in order. 57.6v (3.6) is their recommendation, and it seems it will trip into OVP every time at that setting.

if that's the case, i guess i will change my bulk/absorb to 3.45v and see what happens....where the cell voltages stop. i'm only guessing that the bms shuts it off at just over 3.6v.

i just checked, after running them for a few days w/o charging (and it's been sitting idle for 10 hrs as i shut everything off before i left for work), i'm at about 14% SOC w/ cell voltages at 3204mv. almost all are at 3204mv, a cpl are either 3203 or 3205.
 
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