DC 12V to AC inverter: can make a product to dual voltage 110V and 220V in a single inverter?

[iteonrye]

I have searched quite a while for a nice DC 12V to AC inverter, should have dual voltage 110V and 220V output in a single inverter (and better with universal sockets)? but not seeing options yet, I see many ones saying dual voltage, but actually have 110V version or 220V version, they're not in a single inverter, wonder is it some technical difficulty or something else, just being un-popular?

It's because from the years international travel I have collected quite some small appliances, like hair dryer bought when was in Switzerland (1000 watts working with ~230V only), and electric cooker from Japan (600 watts working with ~110V only), I will continue have many international travel like 3months in Europe, 2 months in Japan, 2 months in Africa, some months in the America continent; want to make all them work at some off-grid 12V DC lithium battery powered places, wonder is there an easy DC 12V to AC dual 110V 220V voltage in a single inverter?

For example, this product https://amzn.to/2RSJmmN can convert DC 12V to AC 110V, or DC 24V to AC 220V; can I have 2 set of 12V batteries in series to get DC 24V, then make a switch to change two batteries in series or parallel, then easy to have both AC 220V (when two batteries in series), or AC 110V (when two batteries in parallel, or use individually)?

and the above product is 5000W Power Inverter DC 12V to AC 110V, costs $65, now I am willing to pay 2x cost for two products, one for 110V output and one for 220V output, can any vendor make the two in a single box product? (to save space/weight when traveling) is 2x cost enough to make such a single product? or 3x costs?

Thanks;

 

[nosys70]

that is silly.
get two inverters, one for 220V and one for 110.

 

[Steve_S]

Not gonna happen. Most certainly not in one box.
You are taking about 220VAC @ 50hz single phase for Europe, 240VAC @ 60 split phase for North America along with 120VAC @ 60hz.

With a 240VAC Split Phase you are actually getting 2x 120VAC for North America. You can then use an adapter to convert to 220VAC / 50hz Euro standard for your euro appliances. I have NOT seen an adapter that let's you wire circuits from it, unlikely to exist unless it's a special application and would require a costly build.

 

[iteonrye]

Could some of you focus on Why? is it technical difficulty or just un-popular demand? I believe if that two products can be made in a single box, can share some electric units and save costs (to be less than 2x of single product)?

Does the frequency 50Hz vs 60Hz really matter?

I use this https://amzn.to/2U7FDF1 supports up to 2300 watt step down from 220V to 110V, lightweight to carry, Weight:1.3lb; for using those US appliances in 230V countries, working pretty well; so at least the DC 12V => AC 230V one inverter + one step-down converter solutions exists; next question is why cannot build-in the converter circuit inside the inverter?

 

[Steve_S]

Simply put, each would require it own electronics, transformers & coils. completely impractical to make.

 

[iteonrye]

I am not saying use 220V and 110V at same time, just want them to be output of a single inverter box, can have a switch output to 110V or 220V, to use those 110V appliances at this hour, then switch to 220V appliances at next hour, not using at same time

For example, this product https://amzn.to/2RSJmmN can convert DC 12V to AC 110V, or DC 24V to AC 220V; can I have 2 set of 12V batteries in series to get DC 24V, then make a switch to change two batteries in series or parallel, then easy to have both AC 220V (when two batteries in series), or AC 110V (when two batteries in parallel, or use individually)?

and anyone want to respond this?

this https://amzn.to/2U7FDF1 supports up to 2300 watt step down from 220V to 110V, lightweight to carry
so at least the DC 12V => AC 230V one inverter + one step-down converter solutions exists; this is cheaper and lighter to carry than 2 inverters; but I'm not sure about power efficiency? and energy loss in heat dissipation?

next question is why cannot build-in the converter circuit inside the inverter?

 

[tictag]

I think this is at least an interesting question. There is clearly a demand for such a device and Capitalism is all about profitting from such demand so why isn't there such a product?

Transforming AC voltages is relatively easy to do, more turns on the secondary, up the voltage goes, less turns, down. The challenge comes when inverting DC to AC. Using buck/boost methods and/or a transformer coupling requires the DC input supply to be switched. AFAIK, PSW inverters do this using SPWM (Sine Pulse Width Modulation) which is then filtered and smoothed. As the SPWM switching signal is entirely within the device's control it should in theory be able to switch a little faster for a 60Hz output, slower for 50Hz. Once you have AC you can easily transform it to the required output voltage.

Does the frequency 50Hz vs 60Hz really matter?

In simple devices e.g. resistive heaters, probably not, but some devices use the supply frequency for timing and some 'cut up' the incoming sine wave to regulate power. Such devices are designed for a particular supply frequency and may not function properly using a non-rated supply frequency.

I don't know, doesn't sound like it is beyond the wit of man to design such a product.

 

[nosys70]

so if by any chance you find one, you will double all the wiring in your house to get 110v and 220v plug.
added to that, that you need to be lucky for the inverter running the right tension you need. else you need to go back to installation to switch voltage.
and then you disconnect all the devices that were running on the other plug ?
some people love to have a complicacted life.

 

[iteonrye]

so if by any chance you find one, you will double all the wiring in your house to get 110v and 220v plug.

it's not required to use all of the appliances at the same time, but just want a single versatile inverter box which can do both 110V and 220V output,
can come with a switch, switch to 220V or 110V output, not necessary to output dual voltage at same time, but when you need 110V you switch it to one side, or the other side when you want 220V output, who doesn't like a 2-voltage-in-1 Versatile inverter box?
Why didn't Capitalism see this demand, and try to make a profit from?
Especially in a van living environment, you can have DC 12V to power most appliances (like DC 12V fridge), and other AC powered appliances in occasional use, like the 230V hair dryer and 110V electric cooker are not long time consuming power,

Look at the world map of AC voltage/frequency, it didn't change much if comparing 60 years back, the assumption of 60 years back was
most appliances are designed in-use stationary, do not travel to other voltage/frequency area

but, nowadays in 2020 people are traveling more and more often, and people move between continents more and more often, some appliances investment were wasted, or people have to re-invest in all set of appliances;

So, why can't we think in the reverse way, just make a 2-voltage-in-1 Versatile inverter box, to allow all appliances work with DC powered environment?

And that's what I am trying to live in the following decade, in a Van life traveling between continents, I don't want to restrict myself to use only one voltage standard of appliances, when some appliances might fail, I want to be able to just buy low cost appliances from local market, the EU 230V or US 110V; I know I am not the first one trying to do Van life traveling between continents, I have seen some youtubers take their Van from US to Europe, or the other way, in each continent for 1 or 2 years, and move on to the next continent, just have fun;

If that magic 2-voltage-in-1 Versatile inverter box is not happening, at least one solution is already working,

this https://amzn.to/2U7FDF1 supports up to 2300 watt step down from 220V to 110V, lightweight to carry
so at least the DC 12V => AC 230V one inverter + one step-down only converter solutions exists; this is cheaper and lighter to carry than 2 inverters; but I'm not sure about power efficiency? and energy loss in heat dissipation?

next question is why cannot build-in the converter circuit inside the inverter?

About Sigineer product, from what I read they're the same, they have the ability to make both 220V 110V inverters in different model, but not in a single product, correct me if I am wrong, if any of you really own one single magic 2-voltage-in-1 Versatile inverter box;
https://www.sigineer.com/wp-content...ower-Combi-Inverter-Charger-Owners-Manual.pdf

And if we see the dual AC voltage problems dynamically, some countries have changed their country standard from 110V to 230V in recent decades, change is happening very slowly, right now the majority of Europa, Asia, Africa are on 230V side, but Saudi is the only exception, Saudi actually also has 230V in more and more areas, and I have heard Saudi set a new policy to stop importing those 110V appliances in 2020, they're on the way moving to 230V camp, may need another 10years to fully switch; and because AC 230V has less energy loss in the long distance transmission;
the 110V is only a historic problem of USA, because USA developed this too early at Edison's era 1890s, when most of Europe switched to 230V in 1920s because of less burden; but it would be too big burden if USA also switch to 230V at that time; this burden accumulates more and more, it may take for ever if want to see the same 230V USA;


To the question does 50Hz/60Hz really matter? Look at the case of Japan, it has same voltage and two frequencies in a single country! I don't know how/why did that happen, but I did purchase appliances from Japan, and travel between East Japan and West Japan, did not realize any differences; I don't know what kind of appliances will be sensitive to AC frequencies? If here has anyone with living experiences with both East Japan and West Japan, could you tell more?

 

[nosys70]

it the only problem is your hair dryer, there are Travel hair-dryer that can be switche 110V, 220V.

 

[iteonrye]

it the only problem is your hair dryer, there are Travel hair-dryer that can be switche 110V, 220V.

No, many of these 230V appliances, using hair dryer just as a simple example, but in the following 10 years is quite a long time, I don't want to restrict myself to not purchase a product just because of voltage incompatibility. There are many fantastic products not having a travel version; Especially when traveling in 230V countries, it might be hard to buy 110V appliances, and vice versa, it's hard to buy 230V appliances in those 110V countries;

this https://amzn.to/2U7FDF1 supports up to 2300 watt step down from 220V to 110V, lightweight to carry
so at least the DC 12V => AC 230V one inverter + one step-down only converter solutions exists; this is cheaper and lighter to carry than 2 inverters; but I'm not sure about power efficiency? and energy loss in heat dissipation?

next question is why cannot build-in the converter circuit inside a 230V inverter?

 

[iteonrye]

any more comments?

 

[Xpat9]

AIMS make dual voltage inverter/chargers - you can get these for 12V or 24V batteries - https://www.aimscorp.net/4000-Watt-12-Volt-Pure-Sine-Inverter-Charger-110-220/240.html
They can accept 110V OR 220/240V input - meaning you have to chose your model for one or the other input voltage. I chose 240V as it works in the rest of the world and also in the US as almost all marinas in the US supply split phase 240V shore power . The inverter side can be wired to invert to an output of 120V or 220V depending how you wire the unit - same model will do both (not at the same time, mind you).

 

[iteonrye]

that link is 404 Not Found

I searched and got this https://www.aimscorp.net/4000-Watt-12-Volt-Pure-Sine-Inverter-Charger.html is a single Voltage product;

yes, preferably want the 120V or 240V from a single inverter product, not necessarily at the same time

Can anyone comment on this solution?

this https://amzn.to/2U7FDF1 supports up to 2300 watt step down from 220V to 110V, lightweight to carry
so at least the DC 12V => AC 230V one inverter + one step-down only converter solutions exists; this is cheaper and lighter to carry than 2 inverters; but I'm not sure about power efficiency? and energy loss in heat dissipation?

next question is why cannot build-in the converter circuit inside a 230V inverter?

 

[Xpat9]

try this: https://www.aimscorp.net/4000-Watt-...erter-Charger-120-240-output-120-V-input.html

 

[Archetype-IS]

that link is 404 Not Found

I searched and got this https://www.aimscorp.net/4000-Watt-12-Volt-Pure-Sine-Inverter-Charger.html is a single Voltage product;

yes, preferably want the 120V or 240V from a single inverter product, not necessarily at the same time

Can anyone comment on this solution?

I found this while search ebay for something else in the past days. Newmar made one long ago, but I am unable to locate the manual for this ebay inverter. From the labels on the pictures, it could do both 110/230v either 50/60hz. It is used on boats where people travel between continents.

Newmar Inverter 24-2000 2000W 24V 24Vdc to 115/220Vac | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Newmar Inverter 24-2000 2000W 24V 24Vdc to 115/220Vac at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Maybe you can call Newmar and ask for info on this legacy inverter.

Since I posted this link, if that's a great interest, you better grab it after you have all the information from the manufacturer. Good luck.

 

[efficientPV]

Much harder with sine wave inverters. Many old MSW inverters have 110V transformers. They put two in series for 220 or two in parallel. As production numbers increased, it became more cost effective to have a transformer for each version to save space on the board by not having jumpers. There is a youtube video where a guy has a sine wave inverter and he adjusts it from 40V to maybe 200 something. I would guess current would remain about the same as the higher voltage. So, it can be done.

 

[schmism]

From were I sit, this is a $800 solution to a $100 problem

 

[Archetype-IS]

From were I sit, this is a $800 solution to a $100 problem

So true, but we love challenge ourselves with odd questions and try to find a solution.

 

[Dzl]

I have been curious about a similar question: see here

I'm not sure it is as complicated as some people are making it out to be, but I'm also not sure its as easy/practical as you think it might be. I don't know a product that exists that would meet your needs, but I would look into Victron. I don't believe they make an inverter that does what you want, but it might be technically possible. Some of their product datasheets have footnotes like "1) Can be adjusted to 60 HZ. 120 V models available on request" or "1) Can be adjusted to 60Hz and to 240V" these references are referring to adjustments done by Victron, not the end user, but it does give the impression that what you desire might be technically possible at least in part.

Another option to look into is a tranformer

However, full disclosure, I'm nowhere near electrically competent enough for this to be anything more than conjecture/musing.