Diagram for solar project on home

[zanydroid]

@zanydroid After talking with online sales for the 18kpv, I found that the unit has the built in ATS with 200-amp bypass, that will still function even if the inverter is down or dead.. so I may just skip that manual transfer switch, and just opt for a Siemens disconnect switch, although it is not required by poco.

Disconnect switch will make it easier to manually rewire to bypass (because whatever sales says, that bypass relay inside the 18kpv could still get stuck or whatever. Vs the $1000 2P2T snap switch that'll outlive us all). And if you keep a copy of the SLD in a handy place, you can probably train someone else in your household to call an electrician to do that bypass.

I'm satisfied with the unit's ability to still transfer power even if the inverter is down. I've attached another diagram here, it's about as simple as I can make it. The 18K is also approved by PG&E, I think it would be as well from SDG&E. So really, it doesn't make sense for to go with the 6000xps, if I can make this setup more simple anyways.

PG&E approval isn't an all-or-nothing thing. With PG&E there are sub-categories of approval :dead:

See this thread for the red tape that EG4 has trouble cutting through

California PCS

Aside from the AHJ and utility approval, would anyone on here recommend against going with a Sol-Ark 15k and PowerPro batteries? I have not seen many issues with this setup.

diysolarforum.com

The thing I'm wondering is if I can go ahead and set up the 18kpv without solar/batter, and just have it run in standby mode until I actually get all the PV/Battery installed and an electrical inspection on it. Otherwise, I can't legally run it if it's generating power.

What is even the benefit of this?

What do you mean by standby mode? I don't think these things are designed to work without a power source. The most likely power source they require is battery. Some can run battery-less. There isn't really a tested use case where someone will install it with AC only, so I doubt you can expect to be able to boot up with AC only to set up the correct bypass mode.

(It depends on what the default bypass behavior of the inverter is I guess in a powered off, zero configuration state. Doesn't make sense to take the risk of deviating from the standard path, which is having at least the battery. Presumably at that point you can turn off the inverter output and turn the system to bypass)

View attachment 211166

 

[bfaubion]

Ok, so I see there are issues with selling back to the grid on the 18k, and it’s not clear on how EG4 is resolving this, but no issues with just buying and using equipment with no export. How odd the Luxpower 12k is approved this way. I’m not in any rush, but I’ll keep an eye on this. Frankly with rates so low from SDGE on buyback, I’m not sure I even want to sell them the energy. The export is more of a perk for me, maybe it’s worth it when the rates are higher, but I don’t need that for the inverter to work for me.

I feel like the timing on setting this inverter up and timing installation with approvals could be hard to align.. because I’m doing a lot of it DIY except the electrician rewiring my main 200 amp line. If the unit could handle pass-through mode on its own without having PV or battery setup, that just gives me a little flexibility in timing.. whether it’s a week or more getting other components setup. But if that’s not possible, and it all has to work at once, that’s fine. I just wasn’t sure if the inverter can be setup and handle passthrough mode without battery or solar connected. I’ll ask EG4 about that.

 

[zanydroid]

Ok, so I see there are issues with selling back to the grid on the 18k, and it’s not clear on how EG4 is resolving this, but no issues with just buying and using equipment with no export. How odd the Luxpower 12k is approved this way. I’m not in any rush, but I’ll keep an eye on this. Frankly with rates so low from SDGE on buyback, I’m not sure I even want to sell them the energy. The export is more of a perk for me, maybe it’s worth it when the rates are higher, but I don’t need that for the inverter to work for me.

Yes, the problem is from them wanting to control sell-back from the energy banked in an ESS. The output from solar only install is a lot more predictable so they don't care. They should not care as much with NEM3 as with NEM2 but I think people are still having problems.

There is some time EG in fire season where the rates are higher, yes. PG&E has a published table with the hour by hour compensation.

You can probably get it approved if you get EG4 to lock your export to 0kW and file that paperwork.

I feel like the timing on setting this inverter up and timing installation with approvals could be hard to align.. because I’m doing a lot of it DIY except the electrician rewiring my main 200 amp line. If the unit could handle pass-through mode on its own without having PV or battery setup, that just gives me a little flexibility in timing.. whether it’s a week or more getting other components setup. But if that’s not possible, and it all has to work at once, that’s fine. I just wasn’t sure if the inverter can be setup and handle passthrough mode without battery or solar connected. I’ll ask EG4 about that.

Rewiring the 200A line is DIY-able except for maybe the pain of pulling the conduit quickly enough to avoid pissing yourself off with no power. Which is worth paying an electrician for. This is a harder rewire than the 100A redo I did myself, where I didn't have to pull long lengths of new wire.

So my immediate idea for that is, how about have the electrician bring the new 200A out to that wall. Your main goes to the input of the disconnect. Your subpanel goes to the output of the disconnect. Now your house has power. Electrician can probably do this pretty fast.

You can then stack the 18kpv and battery with as much time as you want without messing up your house. When it's done, all you have to do is swing the 200A circuit to subpanel over to the 18kpv. Might even be better if you actually extend a new cable from disconnect to the 18kpv that goes out and back (EG disconnect -> 18kpv in, then 18kpv out -> disconnectbox to connect to the feeder to your subpanel). Then it's easier for you to directly connect the house to the disconnect if something goes wrong with your setup.

You are generally allowed to test things before getting all approvals. What about stacking whatever you need to get the inverter to power up and be configurable?

 

[bfaubion]

You can then stack the 18kpv and battery with as much time as you want without messing up your house. When it's done, all you have to do is swing the 200A circuit to subpanel over to the 18kpv. Might even be better if you actually extend a new cable from disconnect to the 18kpv that goes out and back (EG disconnect -> 18kpv in, then 18kpv out -> disconnectbox to connect to the feeder to your subpanel). Then it's easier for you to directly connect the house to the disconnect if something goes wrong with your setup.

You are generally allowed to test things before getting all approvals. What about stacking whatever you need to get the inverter to power up and be configurable?

I like the idea of setting up the disconnect first! And the current 200 line is in the garage rafters area, inside conduit... so it's pretty accessible, but I could go ahead and DIY some conduit, partially installed and put it through the wall to the outside. Then I like the idea of hiring the electrician to pull out the current 200 line, and add the new 200 line, connecting at the disconnect. I'm just a little shy about messing with that line coming from the meter breaker for safety reasons.

When you say "then 18kpv out -> disconnectbox to connect to the feeder to your subpanel" are you suggesting adding a second disconnect box between the 18kpv and subpanel? I can see the logic there.. it makes it easy to rewire should something go wrong with the inverter. What kind of box would that be?

About stacking to get the inverter to power up? You mean batteries? I'm planning on a single EG4 PowerPro.

 

[zanydroid]

are you suggesting adding a second disconnect box between the 18kpv and subpanel? I can see the logic there.. it makes it easy to rewire should something go wrong with the inverter. What kind of box would that be?

No, I mean just use the box the single disconnect comes in. You end up with a bit of extra wire, but have the advantage to patch around more problems. You should be able to bypass the inverter really easily this way.

About stacking to get the inverter to power up? You mean batteries? I'm planning on a single EG4 PowerPro.

I meant stack in the sense that people often mount the inverter above the battery (though this makes the battery hard to service, a lot of people also have non-standard install that isn’t how EG4 instructions say).

 

[bfaubion]

@zanydroid thanks for your feedback here. It's helped me narrow down to the ideal setup. The only choice I have remaining is whether or not to interrupt the current conduit inside the garage like the diagram shows, so that it reroutes the 4/0 to the area behind the house on the outside wall, where I have a small outside slab inside a small covered shed attached to the exterior. If the inverter and battery are there, then it keeps it out of the garage. Alternatively, I could just put it inside the garage, on the opposite side of the wall where the current meter is. I know, that sounds so convenient, I may not even need to disrupt the existing conduit, but that also means I have a fan powered inverter in a space where I often do my day-to-day work and use it as a studio space. I know, first-world problems.