Did I get scammed for $3100? Vpment 12v 200ah batteries a scam? They only weigh 34lbs.

[Tomthumb62]

Will I get to keep the batteries this way and get my money back, that would help pay back all my aggravation and wasted time on this. Even though they're probably crappy batteries and not worth much, it's better than nothing.

Hard to say. Might depend upon the seller, though no way should you have to pay for return shipping. That said, since they're a scam, they might be unsafe, so if you do end up keeping them, I would not keep them anywhere you can't afford burning down, unless you inspect them intensely and don't find anything unsafe in the wiring (but good luck guessing on the cell health).

 

[oregonsun]

Hard to say. Might depend upon the seller, though no way should you have to pay for return shipping. That said, since they're a scam, they might be unsafe, so if you do end up keeping them, I would not keep them anywhere you can't afford burning down, unless you inspect them intensely and don't find anything unsafe in the wiring (but good luck guessing on the cell health).

Thanks, I did notice two terminals getting warm on the batteries with just a 1kw load, they probably are cheap garbage. I could put them in the stepvan I was going to use as a mobile power station, that's why I bought that van in the first place so it could house a solar setup and have all my solar panels mounted to it and I wouldn't need a building permit or have to pass inspections to mount it all.

The idea was to run a generator cord from that stepvan into the house breaker panel, I would just need to install a generator connection.
I'm off the electric grid and not sure what I'd need to do to make that legal for the homeowners insurance though.

 

[Tomthumb62]

Thanks, I did notice two terminals getting warm on the batteries with just a 1kw load,

I'm still learning, but I would think most/many batteries (depending of course) might get a bit warm with a 1000W constant load. What is the battery setup you have again? I mean what batteries and how are they wired series/parallel?

 

[oregonsun]

I'm still learning, but I would think most/many batteries (depending of course) might get a bit warm with a 1000W constant load. What is the battery setup you have again? I mean what batteries and how are they wired series/parallel?

That was testing 4x of the new 12v 200ah vpment brand batteries I bought off ebay connected in series for 48v to a growatt lvm3000 es 48v all in one, driving my regular load of small stuff for laptop and internet and lights and apartment size fridge and smart plugs and smart strips and echo speaker and class d stereo amp driving jbl 590 towers plus a 77" sony oled plus a 650w heater that added up to over 1kw load.

That same setup creates no heat on any connectors using the amperetime batteries of the same size and voltage and arrangement.
The amperetime batteries are way better, those I've been using successfully for over a year, maybe going on two years.
Even when I'm running all that and my microwave instead of the heater (twice the draw) the amperetime battery connections don't heat up.

 

[Tomthumb62]

That was testing 4x of the new 12v 200ah vpment brand batteries I bought off ebay connected in series for 48v to a growatt lvm3000 es 48v all in one, driving my regular load of small stuff for laptop and internet and lights and apartment size fridge and smart plugs and smart strips and echo speaker and class d stereo amp driving jbl 590 towers plus a 77" sony oled plus a 650w heater that added up to over 1kw load.

That same setup creates no heat on any connectors using the amperetime batteries of the same size and voltage and arrangement.
The amperetime batteries are way better, those I've been using successfully for over a year, maybe going on two years.
Even when I'm running all that and my microwave instead of the heater (twice the draw) the amperetime battery connections don't heat up.

I would think that 1000W at 48v should produce very little heat due to low amps. 20A or so. So it doesn’t look good. What happens if you were to max out your inverter??

 

[oregonsun]

I would think that 1000W at 48v should produce very little heat due to low amps. 20A or so. So it doesn’t look good. What happens if you were to max out your inverter??

Yes it should create no heat.
I wouldn't ever max the inverter, not for long any way. I don't trust these chinese things to run full out for long.

The plan was to have two parallel strings minimum feeding the inverter, I bought 8 batteries not 4, so even double the current wouldn't do more than what I tested.

If I do end up able to keep these I'll open the ones that were warm to see what the problem is, they probably just have poor connections inside or used too thin of wire or something, should be something repairable.

 

[Schamp]

I just tested my original 4x 12v 200ah amperetime batteries that have been in daily service for over a year. maybe close to two years now with no means to balance them between 12v batteries, and for whatever reason they are still dead on with equal voltage, 13.3v ea.

Do I need to take them out of series connection to test them? That was while they were still connected and power was being used.

I guess maybe I got lucky because I probably should have kept an eye on how they were doing and never did.

To measure the voltage you don't need to disconnect them out of series, but the voltage under normal discharge or charge conditions doesn't really tell you much about their state of charge, as the voltage curve of LifePo4 batteries is very flat. I never noticed any problem with my batteries either, as long as the daily discharge was no higher than 50 to 60% of their capacity. But then when discharging more than 60% I noticed that one of the batteries voltage suddenly dropped quickly, as it was almost empty, while the others were still all fine. Or the other way around, when charging them to full, one of the voltages will suddenly rise quickly to the max. But inbetween those 2 stages they will all show approx. the same voltage, although being completely out of balance. So, as long as you are just pulling like 2kwh out of your 10kwh bank, you won't notice anything. Try pulling like 9kw out of them and if that works, you can be pretty much sure, that they are still very well balanced.

 

[ghostwriter66]

Yes it should create no heat.
I wouldn't ever max the inverter, not for long any way. I don't trust these chinese things to run full out for long.

The plan was to have two parallel strings minimum feeding the inverter, I bought 8 batteries not 4, so even double the current wouldn't do more than what I tested.

If I do end up able to keep these I'll open the ones that were warm to see what the problem is, they probably just have poor connections inside or used too thin of wire or something, should be something repairable.

So you paying with a DEBIT card the bank won't be any help at all becuase a DEBIT card is just like giving them cash ...

assuming you went through Ebay so I would get them involved NOW ... so if you are reading this its been 24 hours -- is there an update or anything ???

Also if Paypal is involved what did they say ...

If they scammed you - then there is ways of scamming them -- especially since they only used ONE label on returning ... hopefully it won't get that far -- you need to be persistent that you did NOT get what you paid for so you should not be liable for returning anything ...

if it gets to that let me know -- there are some work arounds to screw the seller and still keep EBay happy ...

 

[oregonsun]

So you paying with a DEBIT card the bank won't be any help at all becuase a DEBIT card is just like giving them cash ...

assuming you went through Ebay so I would get them involved NOW ... so if you are reading this its been 24 hours -- is there an update or anything ???

Also if Paypal is involved what did they say ...

If they scammed you - then there is ways of scamming them -- especially since they only used ONE label on returning ... hopefully it won't get that far -- you need to be persistent that you did NOT get what you paid for so you should not be liable for returning anything ...

if it gets to that let me know -- there are some work arounds to screw the seller and still keep EBay happy ...

I opened a case with the bank today, sent them all the requested documentation, they accepted my case but I don't see a reversal in my account yet. It seems like there's a process to this that will take some time before the charges are reversed. The guy I spoke with said this process could take up to 90 days, they first try to resolve the dispute with the two parties.

Ebay won't allow me to escalate a case with them until a couple days have passed after the seller receives my return and after I've received no refund. There isn't even a button to start a dispute until after those conditions have been met, so I used the ebay return label to return the small 1lb decoy package the seller sent me, they should receive it in a few days, then a few more days after that I can start a case with ebay.

I tried twice to start a case with paypal and got kicked out of the automated online form submittal system before I could finish filling out the case information and uploading pictures, it's like they have a timeout on the web page that makes it impossible.


.

 

[oregonsun]

I see the reversal in my account now that says pending, my bank balance shows it just increased by 3100, maybe I just got some free scammy crappy batteries?

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Sorry no photos. I’m a bit stuck on my anonymity here on the webs (though Google surely knows exactly who I am lol), so I won’t be sharing any photos or videos. We aren’t instantgrammers lol.

You can remove the metadata from your pics.
Just FYI.

 

[oregonsun]

If anyone is bored and interested in the back and forth conversation with this scammer, just for entertainment value, here it is.
It got his attention when my bank reversed the charges and he contacted me again.

Here is our conversation in chronological order:





My first reply to him after conforming batteries were a scam:


"Remember me? When I received these batteries I said there was no way they are 200ah because the weight is way too low for 200ah capacity, that would break the laws of physics. I guessed they were 150ah or less.

You said test them, something about new manufacturing process...

I wasted my time charging them, top balanced them, and tested all of them and they are only 140ah, worse than my initial guess based on weight alone.

That makes them only 70% of what I expected to get, nowhere near what I paid for, and it means you're scamming everyone who buys them if you continue to sell them knowing this.

If you want to give me a 50% refund I'll keep them and try not to be mad about getting scammed just to save myself more wasted time and aggravation, otherwise I need return labels for all of them. You ad says free return shipping, and I absolutely do not want them at the price I paid.

Scamming people is not cool, you didn't just scam me you've scammed everyone who bought these from you."





His reply:



" I remeber it, sorry for the inconveninece, 50% is hard for us, could you show me some pictures of the each one to me, so that I can submit to our manager to ask compensation for your order , wish that would be ok for you, thanks for you support our work so much. ‌‍‍‍‍‍‍‌‍‍‌‌‍‍‌‍‌‌‍‌‍‍‍‍‌‍‌‍‍‍‍‌‍‌‍‌‌‍‌‌‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍"



My second reply to him.




"

I have PDF printouts from my growatt inverter/charger showing the data from when I tested them, it shows where I tested them all from full capacity to fully empty, but I cannot see how to send them to you here. If you want them provide an email address or web site to go to so that I can send them. I cannot see how to save them as a photo, it only lets me save them as a pdf printout. Again let me remind you that I don't want haggling on a partial discount to delay resolution on these, if you can't do the 50% off and haggling will cause delay just sent return labels for all of them, I want to send them all back rather than delay resolution. I don't want any haggling back and forth, either 50% discount or send me shipping labels so that I can send them all back." His reply to me: "50% is hard for us, the price we sold it's for bid lowest price. We can partial refund 15% wish would be ok for you. ‌‍‍‍‍‍‍‌‍‌‍‌‍‍‍‌‌‍‌‍‌‍‌‌‌‍‌‌‌‌‌‍‍‌‍‌‌‍‌‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‌" My reply to him: "No, just send me prepaid shipping labels to return all of them. I don't want them now, they are nowhere near the advertised capacity. I want a full refund. You are selling batteries that are only 70% capacity, I've told you numerous times and yet you are still selling them, you should have stopped selling them." His reply to me after charges were reversed and I got his attention: "Our case group handling the case for you now, please confirm me return tracking number, we will follow return and resolve the case soon, thank you. ‌‍‍‍‍‍‍‌‍‌‍‌‌‌‍‍‌‌‌‍‍‍‌‍‍‍‌‍‍‍‌‌‍‍‌‍‌‌‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‍‌" My reply to him: " I find it hard (no impossible) to believe you are an operation with more than one person, you do not have enough sales to support an entire business with multiple employees and certainly not a separate "case group". I've looked at your completed listings, you don't have the income for that. Please stop jerking me around and wasting my time. You know that you sent a small 1lb decoy package with a single USPS tracking number and that number is all you entered into ebay, then you sent the 8 batteries on 8 different tracking numbers via fedex so when I initiated a return on ebay the only label that ebay prints out is the return label for the 1lb decoy package of plastic parts you sent that were completely unrelated to the items I purchased. That package of unrelated plastic parts you sent me was dropped off at usps yesterday, I don't have the tracking number, it's in the ebay system, ebay generated the label. Ebay didn't print labels for the 8 large fedex boxes the batteries actually shipped in. ebay has no record of you shipping more than one small package, you pulled some type of fast one so that I couldn't return the items if I found they were fraudulent which I did. If you want those large boxes and batteries returned, you are going to need to send me prepaid shipping labels. I have been telling you to send me prepaid labels all along, this is like the FIFTH TIME I have told you to send me prepaid shipping labels. Stop jerking me around and wasting my time. At this point you should be paying me for wasting my time testing your batteries and informing you that you are selling fraudulent batteries that are nowhere near their stated capacity. I see that you've sold about 20 of these batteries after I informed you they are a scam. Stop selling scam batteries, pull your other listings for these batteries and send me prepaid shipping labels, then after I verify you are no longer scamming more people I will send your scammy batteries back." I'm probably not in a spot where I can demand he stop selling scam batteries and remove the rest of his listings for them, I'm going to guess that if he does provide return shipping labels I will have to send them back even when he still has listings up for these scam batteries or I will risk losing my refund. Sound correct? I wish I was in a position to make him take down all the other listings for these batteries before I return them. Here is the feedback I left him after reversing charges, in the hopes that other buyers won't keep buying these batteries (He still has multiple listings up for the same scam batteries): "12v 200ah batteries are only 140ah SCAM RUN AWAY AS FAST AS POSSIBLE SCAM He sends a decoy 1lb package via USPS and that is all ebay tracking knows about, and when you try to print return label you won't get labels for any batteries only the decoy 1lb package so you can return them if you notice they are a scam. FRAUD SCAM FRAUD SCAM RUN AWAY SCAM FRAUDSTER SCAM ​

 

[WindWizard]

"You don't seem to be having good luck with batteries"

Or ebay.

Have any of you ever experienced an ebay seller sending you a decoy package full of worthless junk that only weighs 1lb with a tracking number to show on ebay that you received your item, and then received the actual items you ordered on 8 other tracking numbers that are not on the ebay system?

That's where I'm at now with this return. The seller sent the batteries outside of the ebay tracking system and ebay only knows about this small 1lb decoy package. The listing says return shipping is to be paid by seller, but when I go to print return label it only gives me the one label for the small 1lb decoy package.

I think I'm on a path to keep these batteries for free, but I can't start a dispute with ebay yet until they receive that decoy package I just returned to them or until two days have passed without a reply from the seller.

Should I contact my bank to stop payment on the mastercard debit cart, contact paypal where I used the debit card, or wait to start a dispute with ebay?

I have had multiple issues with Ebay and Amazon. It is very easy to return items that are defective. All you do is to click the return tab and then specify the reason you are returning them. Since they are defective then the seller pays return shipping and you get your money back once the seller has received the batteries.

 

[oregonsun]

I have had multiple issues with Ebay and Amazon. It is very easy to return items that are defective. All you do is to click the return tab and then specify the reason you are returning them. Since they are defective then the seller pays return shipping and you get your money back once the seller has received the batteries.

I have had many hassle free returns with both, but when dealing with a scammer It doesn't work that way.

This ebay scammer sends you a 1lb decoy package of plastic parts completely unrelated to your 8x 12v 200ah batteries order, and that little 1lb package is the only tracking number ebay is aware of, so that when you initiate a return ebay only gives you a label for that 1lb package and you have no way to return the 8 batteries larger than a car battery that weight 39 pounds each when boxed.

In this case the scammer needs to somehow send you 8 prepaid labels for boxes ebay has no information or tracking about and then since ebay has no tracking info on your actual return, I don't know how that works out. I'm sure he had some plan with this trickery in the event of a return.

 

[Tomthumb62]

You can remove the metadata from your pics.
Just FYI.

Already done. The trailer is so unique it doesn’t need any digital markings lol. Nothing to hide just don’t want notoriety lol.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Already done. The trailer is so unique it doesn’t need any digital markings lol. Nothing to hide just don’t want notoriety lol.

I see..

 

[oregonsun]

I see..

I saw it, it was a cool utility trailer conversion like if you took a 7x12 utility trailer with 4' metal sides and then built an all wood gypsy wagon/rustic type camper on it that overhangs on the sides like a camper that fits in the back of a pickup truck. That's what it reminded me of, an extra large camper that would fit in the back of a pickup truck, in a rustic all wood obviously homebuilt taking a lot of time style.
Really is a unique little setup, would stick out like a sore thumb if it was posted online, never seen anything else like it.

A utility trailer version of this bus sort of:

27 Photos of the Best Five School Bus Houses

Can you turn a school bus into a tiny home? Get inspired by these real school bus turned mobile home conversions.

www.thespruce.com

 

[ghostwriter66]

I opened a case with the bank today, sent them all the requested documentation, they accepted my case but I don't see a reversal in my account yet. It seems like there's a process to this that will take some time before the charges are reversed. The guy I spoke with said this process could take up to 90 days, they first try to resolve the dispute with the two parties.

Ebay won't allow me to escalate a case with them until a couple days have passed after the seller receives my return and after I've received no refund. There isn't even a button to start a dispute until after those conditions have been met, so I used the ebay return label to return the small 1lb decoy package the seller sent me, they should receive it in a few days, then a few more days after that I can start a case with ebay.

I tried twice to start a case with paypal and got kicked out of the automated online form submittal system before I could finish filling out the case information and uploading pictures, it's like they have a timeout on the web page that makes it impossible.


.

So just a bit of friendly advice .... I deal with China a lot ... for some reason because I am Chinese (although born and raised in LAX) my company has decided that I should help them out on some of the issues every now and then because i do speak Mandarin - sort of -- ... of course we have about 100 perfect Chinese speakers in the company but sometimes with me being out here with the actual equipment its easier to explain etc etc ...

SO - and its a little late for this advice - but you really want to sweet talk them until the divorce papers are signed and you got your money ...

right now you have basically called them scammers (which they may or may not be - they also may have got scammed by the people they bought the batteries from) and you leaving a PUBLIC message like that they now no longer have any reason to help you at all ...

You got a reverse charge temporarily -- its left up to THEM and your bank to decide if its permanent .. if they send the bank "proof" that you got what you said you didn't get (trust me - if they are scammers they have this made up proof already") then the charges will be re-reversed ...

I'm not understanding though how your BANK is helping you IF you used a DEBIT card ... I have never heard of this being done -- someone correct me if I am wrong ....

I also don't understand how you can't start an issue with PayPal ... something is not right because I know for a fact that PayPal screens time out after 15 minutes -- not 30 seconds ... so I would keep trying ...

I would also take down any negative public anger UNTIL you get the money firmly in your pocket -- remember - what was reversed and be re-reversed ... just curious -- is the money 100% available for you to withdraw -- because if it is I would draw it all out and leave the bare minimum in until this gets fully resolved ... i bet that they have an administrative hold on that 3K in your account ...

Finally - 99% of these companies are selling batteries bought from someone else from someone else thru someone else ...thats why 90% of all these batteries look the same when its cut open ... SOOOO the person you are speaking to does NOT understand 90% of the ENGLISH that you are using like "being jerked around" and things like that ... they are taking your English and running it through google translate and then reading it ... I ran your stuff through google Mandarin and I will tell you .. its pretty funny ... SAO I totally advice you to keep your posts to them very to the point -- the more point the less "scammy" you come across .. because right now - IF those guys did NOT scam you but the people they got the batteries from DID - then those sellers are thinking that YOU are the scammer ... PLUS you asking for 50% right off the top is a HUGE RED FLAG (no pun intended) to the Chinese manufacturers ... TONS of Americans do this all the time -- "hey you didn't send me what I asked for BUT I am willing to keep it for 50% off" -- so of course this seems suspicious ...

Hopefully you kept the original boxes - you will need that for proof and the tracking info -- trust me -- they are going to fight you tooth and nails on this one ... IF I were them i would say that the batteries do NOT seem defective but that they will replace them if you send them back to China -- remember - the US heavily subsidizes shipments FROM China to US but not the other way around - so you are EASILY looking at 1500 to send back those batteries -- and if you don't send them back - then they will close the case and you are stuck with what you have ...

SO strongly suggest that you take down the public slam until the outcome ... DON'T give them a reason to draw a line in the sand and drag this out ... because - Right or Wrong -- they will ...

 

[Tomthumb62]

I'm not understanding though how your BANK is helping you IF you used a DEBIT card ... I have never heard of this being done -- someone correct me if I am wrong

No one uses their debit card for online transactions. That requires a PIN to complete. They run as a Visa or Mastercard transaction. It’s not exactly as good as an actual credit card, but mostly as good in terms of protection.

Edit to say that in the USA, most debit cards operate like a prepaid VISA or Mastercard, as long as they have the VISA or Mastercard symbol on the card.

 

[oregonsun]

So just a bit of friendly advice .... I deal with China a lot ... for some reason because I am Chinese (although born and raised in LAX) my company has decided that I should help them out on some of the issues every now and then because i do speak Mandarin - sort of -- ... of course we have about 100 perfect Chinese speakers in the company but sometimes with me being out here with the actual equipment its easier to explain etc etc ...

SO - and its a little late for this advice - but you really want to sweet talk them until the divorce papers are signed and you got your money ...

right now you have basically called them scammers (which they may or may not be - they also may have got scammed by the people they bought the batteries from) and you leaving a PUBLIC message like that they now no longer have any reason to help you at all ...

You got a reverse charge temporarily -- its left up to THEM and your bank to decide if its permanent .. if they send the bank "proof" that you got what you said you didn't get (trust me - if they are scammers they have this made up proof already") then the charges will be re-reversed ...

I'm not understanding though how your BANK is helping you IF you used a DEBIT card ... I have never heard of this being done -- someone correct me if I am wrong ....

I also don't understand how you can't start an issue with PayPal ... something is not right because I know for a fact that PayPal screens time out after 15 minutes -- not 30 seconds ... so I would keep trying ...

I would also take down any negative public anger UNTIL you get the money firmly in your pocket -- remember - what was reversed and be re-reversed ... just curious -- is the money 100% available for you to withdraw -- because if it is I would draw it all out and leave the bare minimum in until this gets fully resolved ... i bet that they have an administrative hold on that 3K in your account ...

Finally - 99% of these companies are selling batteries bought from someone else from someone else thru someone else ...thats why 90% of all these batteries look the same when its cut open ... SOOOO the person you are speaking to does NOT understand 90% of the ENGLISH that you are using like "being jerked around" and things like that ... they are taking your English and running it through google translate and then reading it ... I ran your stuff through google Mandarin and I will tell you .. its pretty funny ... SAO I totally advice you to keep your posts to them very to the point -- the more point the less "scammy" you come across .. because right now - IF those guys did NOT scam you but the people they got the batteries from DID - then those sellers are thinking that YOU are the scammer ... PLUS you asking for 50% right off the top is a HUGE RED FLAG (no pun intended) to the Chinese manufacturers ... TONS of Americans do this all the time -- "hey you didn't send me what I asked for BUT I am willing to keep it for 50% off" -- so of course this seems suspicious ...

Hopefully you kept the original boxes - you will need that for proof and the tracking info -- trust me -- they are going to fight you tooth and nails on this one ... IF I were them i would say that the batteries do NOT seem defective but that they will replace them if you send them back to China -- remember - the US heavily subsidizes shipments FROM China to US but not the other way around - so you are EASILY looking at 1500 to send back those batteries -- and if you don't send them back - then they will close the case and you are stuck with what you have ...

SO strongly suggest that you take down the public slam until the outcome ... DON'T give them a reason to draw a line in the sand and drag this out ... because - Right or Wrong -- they will ...

I get what you are saying, It's hard not to get angry and call a scammer a scammer, but there is no way he's going to resolve this issue no matter how nice I may be to him, so I don't think any damage is done.

This is not a company, this is an individual drop shipper with a track record of selling batteries of low capacity and not resolving disputes that I didn't see until doing a deeper dive into his feedback and sales history after I knew I had a problem with the batteries.

The batteries he sold were only 70% of stated capacity, being willing to pay 50% for 70% capacity is being generous and I did that just to try to avoid making multiple trips 40 minutes away to return them, only a few will fit in my car at one time this is a huge hassle. I am in the country and there is no fedex drop-off nearby.

Also the capacity isn't the only problem with them, a couple are getting warm terminals when drawing 1kw load so they have issues. In reality they aren't even worth 50%, 50% was too generous.

I have this person dead to rights in a dispute they have almost zero chance of winning, it really doesn't matter at all what he does, I don't need his help to resolve this and I was just mad and am still mad, he's still selling batteries that are only 70% capacity and deliberately mislabeled on weight and capacity and still scamming more people. That makes my blood boil. If he had just stopped selling them so that I could see he cared about not scamming more people I would have treated him entirely differently.

I think some banks and bank cards have different protections, my bank is a good credit union and it's a mastercard debit card that carries some protections of a credit card.

I was going to try filling out paypals forms again but I'm only 3 days away from being able to finish this dispute with ebay directly so not bothering now, plus that earlier person said paypal may complicate the dispute and make things worse.

My blood still boils when I'm typing this all out and I get shaky and start making typing errors and have to make lots of corrections so it takes longer than paypals timeout. Really hard to control my temper on this when he's still scamming more people.