Do LiFeP04 batteries need a specific kind of inverter?

[ValkyrieVanLife]

I'm a total newbie at this, but I'm trying to decide on a 1000W pure sine wave inverter to pair with my LiFeP04 battery for my basic solar system for a van. I found a 1000W pure sine wave inverter that has good reviews and looks awesome, but the manufacturer said "this device would not work with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (LiFeP04)." Why wouldn't it work with a LiFeP04 battery? Don't you just hook it up to the battery terminals and go? Why would it work on other batteries and not LiFeP04? Super confused. If anyone has insight, I would love some help! Thanks!

product I'm looking at: https://wagan.com/wagan-tech/power-inverters/pureline-1000.html

 

[John Frum]

@ValkyrieVanLife Please include a link to the product so that we can help you better.

 

[tchijioke]

I'm a total newbie at this, but I'm trying to decide on a 1000W pure sine wave inverter to pair with my LiFeP04 battery for my basic solar system for a van. I found a 1000W pure sine wave inverter that has good reviews and looks awesome, but the manufacturer said "this device would not work with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (LiFeP04)." Why wouldn't it work with a LiFeP04 battery? Don't you just hook it up to the battery terminals and go? Why would it work on other batteries and not LiFeP04? Super confused. If anyone has insight, I would love some help! Thanks!

The LiFeP04 chemistry has some distinct features that makes it outstanding but there are some of its features that you must watch out for...
In my opinion firstly ensure you have a reliable BMS.
Secondly get a smart charger that is programmable... You should be able to set LVD and HVD...if your charger can do this then the BMS should effectively take care of the rest. Also note that LiFeP04 does not need the float charge as is the case with lead acid chemistry... To work around this just reduce the HVD below the battery manufacturers recommendations and you should be fine.

 

[ValkyrieVanLife]

@ValkyrieVanLife Please include a link to the product so that we can help you better.

Oh sorry! https://wagan.com/wagan-tech/power-inverters/pureline-1000.html

 

[tchijioke]

@ValkyrieVanLife Please include a link to the product so that we can help you better.

Yea that true provide the link to get specific support.

 

[ValkyrieVanLife]

Yea that true provide the link to get specific support.

Edited post above to include link

 

[John Frum]

This is probably the concern
DC Input range: 10.1V - 16.4V
For lifepo4 I would want the low voltage cutoff to be ~12 volts.
Preferably configurable.

 

[ValkyrieVanLife]

This is probably the concern
DC Input range: 10.1V - 16.4V
For lifepo4 I would want the low voltage cutoff to be ~12 volts.
Preferably configurable.

I thought I would get a little low voltage alarm to set for the low voltage - or maybe get the victron battery protect. Would either of those solve that issue?

 

[John Frum]

I thought I would get a little low voltage alarm to set for the low voltage - or maybe get the victron battery protect. Would either of those solve that issue?

Perhaps, You can't really put the battery protect in the inverter current path but you might be able to use it to switch the inverter on/off.

 

[tchijioke]

Edited post above to include link

I downloaded the manual but couldn't find any indication that the charging profile is programmable. Maybe I didn't search in details though.
If you must use any generic charger for LiFeP04, it should be programmable, this saves you a lot of stress and also helps prolong your battery life.

 

[ValkyrieVanLife]

I downloaded the manual but couldn't find any indication that the charging profile is programmable. Maybe I didn't search in details though.
If you must use any generic charger for LiFeP04, it should be programmable, this saves you a lot of stress and also helps prolong your battery life.

Thank you. I'm a little new at some of the terms, what are you referencing with charger? Is that part of the inverter? Is that something you can buy separately?

 

[Craig]

Thank you. I'm a little new at some of the terms, what are you referencing with charger? Is that part of the inverter? Is that something you can buy separately?

I think if you had a god BMS you could make it work the BMS would handle the LVD and the upper limit would be ok.

 

[ValkyrieVanLife]

I think if you had a god BMS you could make it work the BMS would handle the LVD and the upper limit would be ok.

Wellllllll, the BMS is actually my problem. I ordered a Valence U27-12XP 138AH battery (non-returnable) before I knew that it doesn't have a BMS - and I don't have several hundred dollars to fork out for their external BMS. My thoughts were that I would get a voltage monitor and some sort of alarm for low voltage so that I could be my own BMS.

 

[Bob142]

@ValkyrieVanLife where did you see that reference to the inverter not working with LFP? I didn't see it on the site or in the manual.

To me there's nothing fundamentally different about it than other comparable inverters like the GoWise and Giandels that Will recommends. Looking at various manuals, this Wagan low voltage alarm is 10.5V, GoWise is 10.6V, and Giandel's is 9.8V (with shutoffs slightly lower for all).

 

[ValkyrieVanLife]

@ValkyrieVanLife where did you see that reference to the inverter not working with LFP? I didn't see it on the site or in the manual.

To me there's nothing fundamentally different about it than other comparable inverters like the GoWise and Giandels that Will recommends. Looking at various manuals, this Wagan low voltage alarm is 10.5V, GoWise is 10.6V, and Giandel's is 9.8V (with shutoffs slightly lower for all).

It was from a manufacturer reply to a question on Amazon. I figured since the reply was from the manufacturer, it was legit. But maybe they don't deal with LiFeP04 batteries enough to know. I was totally going to get the GoWise 1000W but I haven't been able to find it, sold out everywhere.

 

[tchijioke]

@ValkyrieVanLife where did you see that reference to the inverter not working with LFP? I didn't see it on the site or in the manual.

To me there's nothing fundamentally different about it than other comparable inverters like the GoWise and Giandels that Will recommends. Looking at various manuals, this Wagan low voltage alarm is 10.5V, GoWise is 10.6V, and Giandel's is 9.8V (with shutoffs slightly lower for all).

My major concern is that the Upper Limit for this inverter is 16.5v that's 4.125vpc it would probably drop down to float charge and maintain its float voltage for a while, some chargers float longer than others and where the user is not able to specify the limits, over time these may not be healthy for the battery.

 

[ValkyrieVanLife]

My major concern is that the Upper Limit for this inverter is 16.5v that's 4.125vpc it would probably drop down to float charge and maintain its float voltage for a while, some chargers float longer than others and where the user is not able to specify the limits, over time these may not be healthy for the battery.

Doesn't my mppt solar charge controller do that? Like, doesn't it control the amount of energy going into the battery so that it wouldn't be charging that high?

 

[John Frum]

Doesn't my mppt solar charge controller do that? Like, doesn't it control the amount of energy going into the battery so that it wouldn't be charging that high?

Yes your solar charge controller limits the voltage it sends to the battery.
The inverter as speced is a load and not a charge source.

 

[tchijioke]

Doesn't my mppt solar charge controller do that? Like, doesn't it control the amount of energy going into the battery so that it wouldn't be charging that high?

Oversight on my part...I went through the spec again I discovered it didn't state charge current which means it doesn't charge your batteries it only inverts.

 

[JoeHam]

I thought I would get a little low voltage alarm to set for the low voltage - or maybe get the victron battery protect. Would either of those solve that issue?

I use the lower end Reliable inverters in a 48v version.

They all have low voltage alarm and then shut themselves off at a lower voltage yet. I can confirm that it works ?

Might be easier to use an inverter with the protection built in?