Dual Schneider Conext XW pro 6.8k VS Single Sol-Ark 15k

[LasseH]

What system will be able to handle a full house of loads (including inductive loads)
Disclaimer:
- My house doesn't exceed 50A (240VAC) of continuous power.
- Main breaker is 200A, but I do not ever get close to that.
- My goal is to be completely off grid on a modern house using heat-pump HVAC, heat-pump water heater, heat-pump drier etc.
- Generator that turns on between of 20% and 60% state of charge using BMS features.

On one corner, we Have 1*Sol-Ark 15kWh
- Input breaker: 200A Double pole
- Output breaker: 200A Double pole
- With grid it has the ability to provide 28kWh(240VAC) to the house. (200A)
- With PV it has the ability to provide 15kWh(240VAC) to the house. (62.5A)
- With Battery it has the ability to provide 12kWh(240VAC) to the house. (50A)
- Battery terminal (DC) charge/discharge = 275A
- PV terminal (DC): - Max PV input is 19.5kW - 6.5kW per MPPT(max 2 strings - 3 MPPT's) - 500Voc Max - 26A max
- Idle consumption: 90W
- CEC Weighted Efficiency: 96.5% (97.5%)
- Battery charge efficiency: 96%
- Price is 8250$


On the other corner, we have 2*Dual Schneider Conext XW pro 6.8k:
- Input breaker: 2*60 Double pole = 120A
- Output breaker: 2*60 Double pole = 120A
- With PV, they has the ability to provide 13.6kWh(240VAC and inductive loads up to 24.000kWh Surge current.
- With Battery, they have the ability to provide 48VDC * 2*140A = 13.44kW
- Battery terminals (DC): Charge rate is 2*140A = 280A
- PV terminals (DC): - Max PV input is
- Idle consumption: 2*28W = 56W
- CEC Weighted Efficiency: 92.5% (Peak 95.7%)
- Battery charge efficiency: 98%
- Price is 2*3500$ = 7000$
- Charge controllers 2*1000$ = 2000$ (Schneider Conext MPPT 80 600)

Sol-ark:
- When grid tied, the The Sol-Ark seems more simple with less need for extras? (plug and play)

Schneider:
- Appear to be better all around when it comes to being completely off grid? (Superior surge current handling)
- Less big surge current faults that shut down the off-grid system because it can handle it better.
- Need a separate solar charge controller device to capture sunlight and charge batteries.


Main resource:

Other resource youtuber who talked down on Sol-ark and got the Schneider instead on his videos:

https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPozEnergy/videos

 

[BentleyJ]

The Schneider XW Pro can output 8500W each for 30 min at 25 deg C. from battery only. So 2 of these will definitely outperform the Sol-Ark. As a satisfied Schneider user I'm probably not very objective. I would agree with you that the Sol-Ark is probably easier to install and wire up vs. 2 XW Pro's + PDP + charge controllers + Insight.

If you are going to be Grid-Tied (with or without sell back) the Sol-Ark seems like the better choice. The down side of the All-in-One design is that if something fails, the whole unit and all of its functions may be out of service for a while but at least there is the grid to fall back to.

On the other hand, for Off-Grid, having the redundancy of 2 inverters and separate charge controllers makes more sense. If something breaks you are not stuck without power.

 

[LasseH]

The Schneider XW Pro can output 8500W each for 30 min at 25 deg C. from battery only. So 2 of these will definitely outperform the Sol-Ark. As a satisfied Schneider user I'm probably not very objective. I would agree with you that the Sol-Ark is probably easier to install and wire up vs. 2 XW Pro's + PDP + charge controllers + Insight.

If you are going to be Grid-Tied (with or without sell back) the Sol-Ark seems like the better choice. The down side of the All-in-One design is that if something fails, the whole unit and all of its functions may be out of service for a while but at least there is the grid to fall back to.

On the other hand, for Off-Grid, having the redundancy of 2 inverters and separate charge controllers makes more sense. If something breaks you are not stuck without power.

I also hear that Schneider is probably even more hardcore when it comes to their UL-listing compliance and have the solar industries lowest failure rates, the fewest returns and the best customer service.

Not to bash on the Sol-ark.

It would appear that 8500W for 30min on each inverter (17kW total), with room for even more overhead would be a good selling point when considering their interaction with the battery. (VS. only 12kW on the 15kW Sol-Ark)

I appreciate your feedback. I'm sure that if you manage to put together the Schneider, the payoff is well worth it..
Especially Considering that equipment failure doesn't necessarily leave you in the complete dark.

 

[LasseH]

Also, who uses 200A @ 240VAC? Is this when all pumps turn on at the same time in the house?
But if a 30A motor kicks on at around 160A on the Sol-Ark, won't the inverter just trip on the surge anyways?

Isn't it safe to say that the 200A grid bypass was just a way to compensate for their poor inrush current surges?

All the video's I see online, I see that most Sol-ark customers have to deal with headaches related to surge current faults...

 

[pvdude]

The way my XW Pro inverters are configured, I have not (yet) had the need to install the external contactor.
The 60A output limit for two XW Pro's is more than adequate for our DC coupled, "no sell back" system.
I did buy the external contactor and relay, in case it becomes necessary in the future to install it to obtain the additional power available.

 

[wheisenburg]

One other thing is that sol arc actually has essentially two 120 volt 7500 watt inverters internally one for L1 and one for L2. So a large load on one leg can trip the inverter. Because of its large transformer and low frequency operation, the Schneider is better able to handle unbalanced loads. It has essentially one 240 volt inverter. The center tapped transformer can then be used to form the neutral. This allows you to pull almost the entire output from a single leg

The sol ark has better software and is easier to setup. They have a built in display.

When you have multiple inverters on Schneider you have a lot of challenges setting everything up. You also need a PC or tablet to view or change the status.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Also, who uses 200A @ 240VAC? Is this when all pumps turn on at the same time in the house?
But if a 30A motor kicks on at around 160A on the Sol-Ark, won't the inverter just trip on the surge anyways?

Isn't it safe to say that the 200A grid bypass was just a way to compensate for their poor inrush current surges?

All the video's I see online, I see that most Sol-ark customers have to deal with headaches related to surge current faults...

Never had any trouble with surge current faults.

The 12ks had phase imbalance issue if you had 4k imbalances between legs.

Sometimes if you had too small a battery or cable from battery will trip with LOWDC because of a surge that pulls voltage below set limits but that is a DIY mistake and fixable.

 

[ChrisG]

Can XW Pro pull from grid (when available) and battery simultaneously based on some threshold to limit battery usage? Thinking really large loads or battery conservation.

 

[ChrisG]

Can XW Pro pull from grid (when available) and battery simultaneously based on some threshold to limit battery usage? Thinking really large loads or battery conservation.

 

[wheisenburg]

When there is grid power available the inverter goes into "Pass Through" mode. This means that a relay is closed connecting the Grid in with the AC out. They do have something call "Grid Support". This will actually inject current into the AC out similar to the way a grid tied PV inverter does. This will allow you to reduce the peak power being pulled in from the grid. It is not designed to limit the pull from the battery. It limits the pull from the grid.

They do have a setting that will limit the battery discharge. I am not sure exactly how that works.

 

[ChrisG]

When there is grid power available the inverter goes into "Pass Through" mode. This means that a relay is closed connecting the Grid in with the AC out. They do have something call "Grid Support". This will actually inject current into the AC out similar to the way a grid tied PV inverter does. This will allow you to reduce the peak power being pulled in from the grid. It is not designed to limit the pull from the battery. It limits the pull from the grid.

They do have a setting that will limit the battery discharge. I am not sure exactly how that works.

@wheisenburg
Ok so you can throttle the usage of grid. I guess my overall question was can both grid and battery be used in parallel and it seems like the answer is yes with Grid Support. Is all of that correct?

 

[wheisenburg]

@wheisenburg
Ok so you can throttle the usage of grid. I guess my overall question was can both grid and battery be used in parallel and it seems like the answer is yes with Grid Support. Is all of that correct?

Yes, but the main purpose is shaving peak usage from the grid. They have something similar (and probably more useful) for "Generator Support".

I think the main purpose of grid support is that there are apparently power companies that charge you more based on your peak usage.

 

[400bird]

@wheisenburg
Ok so you can throttle the usage of grid. I guess my overall question was can both grid and battery be used in parallel and it seems like the answer is yes with Grid Support. Is all of that correct?

Yes, loads can be supported from a mix of grid a battery simultaneously.

One example is going over the rated output of the inverter, there's no choice but for the remainder of the load to be supported by the grid.
Another is low battery. If the battery SOC can only support 1000 watts, anything past that can be supported by the grid.
Or say you have it installed mobile and can only pull 20 amps from shore power, you can set that limit and support any loads past that with battery.

 

[romangeek]

I have the XW Pro and am able to start my 6 HP compressor... it starts without any hesitation! And yes, when you are using Enhanced Grid Support, you will get a seamless mix of power from available sources, DC or Grid to power the house. If you have no desire to sell back to the grid, just make sure that your Sell Amps = 0.

 

[wheisenburg]

Or say you have it installed mobile and can only pull 20 amps from shore power, you can set that limit and support any loads past that with battery.

I just wonder if anyone actually has one of these beasts installed in an RV?

In the process of testing, I was running my AC with my wall oven and my toaster. When my AC starts up it has a 65 amp surge. The dual Schneiders were fine with all this, but it faulted my batteries. I have 3 and and they are supposed to handle short 140 amp surges. So that's 420 DC amps. It's why I ran dual 0000 cables. I installed my soft starter and now I can run my AC, my wall oven (on broil) and my toaster, all with no issues.

Did I say that I love my Schneider Inverters?

 

[damo green]

I'm looking at the same two options, except I need my ESS system to meet UL 9540 2020.... I like the XW Pro but it needs a separate MPPT, and the Kilovault UL 9540 cert document does not show the mppt controller being included in the certification.... whereas, the Sol-arks is integrated, and so tested/certified with it.

 

[Eleanor36]

I'm looking at the same two options, except I need my ESS system to meet UL 9540 2020.... I like the XW Pro but it needs a separate MPPT, and the Kilovault UL 9540 cert document does not show the mppt controller being included in the certification.... whereas, the Sol-arks is integrated, and so tested/certified with it. instagram pro

Is the Schneider Conext XW pro 6.8k UL 9540 2020 certified when used with a separate MPPT controller? I would be very happy if you could let me know, thanks