EG4 18Kpv strange occurrence

[timselectric]

I would definitely recommend a soft start.
I have been using the EasyStart brand on two AC units. A 12k btu window unit, and a 3T central air unit.
Both have functioned flawlessly and reduced startup surge by 2/3.
My system didn't have any problems starting them, without the soft starts. But reducing the surge is better for everything. (Breaker, wiring, contractors, inverter and compressor) and I believe it will increase the lifespan.
These units would probably all come with soft starts, if it didn't increase the cost so much.
The compressor doesn't need that much power to start. But if it's available (massive grid available), it will take it.
The compressor manufacturer assumes that it will be connected to the grid. So there's no need to add the increase in cost.

 

[Bananaman321]

All less than scientific data analysis is in I give this 18yr. Old P.O.S. a clean bill of health
No accessories needed.

WARNING This content was generated for "entertainment" purposes only.
PLEASE DO NOT try to replicate anything you've seen in this thread

I am NOT an AC technician but I do drink with some from time to time.

As a side note check your flip-flops for holes before handing LIVE conductors.

 

[Bananaman321]

All less than scientific data analysis is in I give this 18yr. Old P.O.S. a clean bill of health
No accessories needed.
View attachment 220891View attachment 220892View attachment 220894View attachment 220897View attachment 220895
WARNING This content was generated for "entertainment" purposes only.
PLEASE DO NOT try to replicate anything you've seen in this thread

I am NOT an AC technician but I do drink with some from time to time.

As a side note check your flip-flops for holes before handing LIVE conductors.

What do you think of this
Redneck soft start
14awg free air conductors
Cut my serge in half for $0.25

Also greatly reduced grunt sound when compressor started

 

[marionw]

One thing you can look at with older HVAC systems in the outside condenser unit is the run capacitor. They are usually dual 35/5uf (or close). Capacitors do break down over time. The capacitor is used to phase shift voltage 90 degrees and is applied to a secondary run winding in the fan and compressor motors. The phase shift ensures the induction motor starts up and spins in the right direction but also adds some power during run time. If the capacitor is bad or going bad either or both motors will take longer to spin up to speed thus increasing the length of the startup surge, in addition the motors won't run as efficiently. I recently replaced the capacitor in my 3 ton unit and saw a significant difference. The unit also runs a lot quieter with less hum.

 

[Bananaman321]

QOne thing you can look at with older HVAC systems in the outside condenser unit is the run capacitor. They are usually dual 35/5uf (or close). Capacitors do break down over time. The capacitor is used to phase shift voltage 90 degrees and is applied to a secondary run winding in the fan and compressor motors. The phase shift ensures the induction motor starts up and spins in the right direction but also adds some power during run time. If the capacitor is bad or going bad either or both motors will take longer to spin up to speed thus increasing the length of the startup surge, in addition the motors won't run as efficiently. I recently replaced the capacitor in my 3 ton unit and saw a significant difference. The unit also runs a lot quieter with less hum.

This is what I believe I installed a couple years back but I believe it is a 55/5

Unit rarely gets used I recently purchased 2-EG4 solar mini splits
I am currently just using the 4 ton AC as a load dump when my batteries get over 75%

 

[Bananaman321]

I am not an AC technician but then again I do not require the assistance of one neither

 

[Bananaman321]

Alright I tightened up all my work brought everything up the code
Made up a new electrical whip 10 foot+ armaflex 2-14awg w/12awg solid Cu ground
I tested it with dryer on high another AC gone plus lighting total over 8000 W started no problem purrrrs like a kitten

BTW I the rating of those flip-flops is 5kv + dry but always check for holes before bare handing live conductors

 

[Bananaman321]

Sure I'm glad I did some research almost wasted $400 on a soft start

 

[Bananaman321]

Sure I'm glad I did some research almost wasted $400 on a soft start

Ha ha ha just kidding go get you one they are really good

 

[Bananaman321]

Sure I'm glad that's out of the way now I can focus my attention on lightning protection
Any suggestions

 

[Bananaman321]

"As I understand "
"And to whom it may concern not quoting any in particular "

Soft start vs Hard start

I don't know how this became the topic of discussion nor do I care. I do appreciate your advice and suggestions but you do not know my ac compressor any better than I do. It may in fact benefit from a soft start or a hard start kit. Both devices in the right situation will reduce startup load on an inverter or generator. A soft start acts as a valve limiting startup currant and a hard start acts as a battery or capacitance storing and releasing extra current to give the motor a stronger kick to get it going generally needed in older motors with weak windings.
Both of these devices can reduce startup load just as they can both cause damage or premature failure of a motor not in need of said device.
A motor that is hard starting may not start at all with a soft start were as a motor with healthy windings could burnout prematurely from the added jolt of excessive current.
But generally speaking most healthy or new ac compressors will benefit from a soft start not only reducing start inrush currant but also extending there life from reduced load on windings and also reducing chance of stalling from line voltage fluctuations.

Anyway I'm trying to not come off as being a dick I just didn't want to start a public argument or an argument period.
Also I've come across information I know to be incorrect multiple on forums with lots of people in aggreeance that doesn't mean I have to agree or call them all out.
I value your shared thoughts and knowledge and hope we can learn from one another in the future.
I'm not expecting a response from this.

Bananaman321 OUT

I want to apologize to any I may have offended I originally written this to a member in private and decided to share publicly in the thread
I really do appreciate the feedback this has definitely been a learning experience learns something new every day.
I don't take anything for granted and like to understand how things work before implementing them into a system so as to less often get an unexpected outcome.

Because as we all know "Failure isn't cheap" but sometimes nessessary

You're truly
Bananaman321

 

[ksmithaz1]

limiting startup currant

Every body should start up with more fruit, bad idea to limit your intake of fruit everyone needs more fiber. (owwww)

and a hard start acts as a battery or capacitance storing and releasing extra current to give the motor a stronger kick to get it going generally needed in older motors with weak windings.

Not exactly. Single phase motors have a small extra "start" winding that tugs the rotor in the correct direction. It energizes via a capacitor which creates a phase shift of the AC input, thus the start winding is slightly out of phase from the primary windings. The hard start kit increases this capacitance creating more tug and a larger phase shift to the start winding, which actually draws more current into it, which will make it heat up and fry, thus the kit removes the additional capacitor from the circuit once the motor is spinning to prevent destruction of the start winding. It just tugs the rotar a little harder in the right direction up front. Which reduces the peak load time at start up.

Capacitors in an AC circuit do not really store energy, they simply cause a phase delay. It creates a push-pull, like a diaphram air pump, sorta kinda. The extra current to the start winding occurs because of the larger phase angle difference. A bit esoteric.

Micro Air Easy Start limits in-rush, and prevents the fans from starting at the same time as the compressor. It shouldn't tear up the windings, if anything it should increase the life of the motor since it gradually (comparably speaking) increases the current flow into the windings, and will shut down if it gets a fault condition. The hard start kits can be problematic if the cap relay sticks closed.

 

[wpns]

Every body should start up with more fruit, bad idea to limit your intake of fruit everyone needs more fiber. (owwww)


Not exactly. Single phase motors have a small extra "start" winding that tugs the rotor in the correct direction. It energizes via a capacitor which creates a phase shift of the AC input, thus the start winding is slightly out of phase from the primary windings. The hard start kit increases this capacitance creating more tug and a larger phase shift to the start winding, which actually draws more current into it, which will make it heat up and fry, thus the kit removes the additional capacitor from the circuit once the motor is spinning to prevent destruction of the start winding. It just tugs the rotar a little harder in the right direction up front. Which reduces the peak load time at start up.

Capacitors in an AC circuit do not really store energy, they simply cause a phase delay. It creates a push-pull, like a diaphram air pump, sorta kinda. The extra current to the start winding occurs because of the larger phase angle difference. A bit esoteric.

Micro Air Easy Start limits in-rush, and prevents the fans from starting at the same time as the compressor. It shouldn't tear up the windings, if anything it should increase the life of the motor since it gradually (comparably speaking) increases the current flow into the windings, and will shut down if it gets a fault condition. The hard start kits can be problematic if the cap relay sticks closed.

I've got a Goulds JRS7 3/4HP jet pump making water pressure for my house, and _sometimes_ when it fires up it flickers the lights.

Because of some legacy constraints, it's currently wired for 120V/12.6A. Once I'm secure in the operation of my (2) 18Kpv inverters I plan to switch it over to 240V/6.3A, but that day is not today.

I've recently replaced the pressure switch, so chances are that's not the problem.

I pulled the end bell partway off the motor (can't really get at everything without disconnecting the plumbing and dismounting it) and disconnected one side of the motor-start capacitor, and it measures out at 174uF. I can't read the nominal capacitance off the existing capacitor, so I don't know for sure what it's supposed to be.

A 'standard' replacement cap I have is specified at 161-193uF and measures at 191uF, so I could make things somewhat different by changing out the cap, but I'm not sure how much difference 10% would make, or if (based on the above) the startup current would actually increase.

Goulds doesn't specify replacement parts to more detail than the entire motor assy for $500-ish, so swapping the capacitor is probably my best bet if you think it'll work?

Is there a soft-start that works well on water pressure pumps? I've mostly seen mention of them here for central HVAC systems...

Thanks!

 

[Bananaman321]

Every body should start up with more fruit, bad idea to limit your intake of fruit everyone needs more fiber. (owwww)


Not exactly. Single phase motors have a small extra "start" winding that tugs the rotor in the correct direction. It energizes via a capacitor which creates a phase shift of the AC input, thus the start winding is slightly out of phase from the primary windings. The hard start kit increases this capacitance creating more tug and a larger phase shift to the start winding, which actually draws more current into it, which will make it heat up and fry, thus the kit removes the additional capacitor from the circuit once the motor is spinning to prevent destruction of the start winding. It just tugs the rotar a little harder in the right direction up front. Which reduces the peak load time at start up.

Capacitors in an AC circuit do not really store energy, they simply cause a phase delay. It creates a push-pull, like a diaphram air pump, sorta kinda. The extra current to the start winding occurs because of the larger phase angle difference. A bit esoteric.

Micro Air Easy Start limits in-rush, and prevents the fans from starting at the same time as the compressor. It shouldn't tear up the windings, if anything it should increase the life of the motor since it gradually (comparably speaking) increases the current flow into the windings, and will shut down if it gets a fault condition. The hard start kits can be problematic if the cap relay sticks closed.

Well said,
I like to think of a hard start as a new lease on life for an otherwise would be condemned compressor or in borrowed time for the customer
I know of a few that have been in service for over 15yrs
Though i'm pretty satisfied with the firmware update

 

[ksmithaz1]

I've got a Goulds JRS7 3/4HP jet pump making water pressure for my house, and _sometimes_ when it fires up it flickers the lights.

Because of some legacy constraints, it's currently wired for 120V/12.6A. Once I'm secure in the operation of my (2) 18Kpv inverters I plan to switch it over to 240V/6.3A, but that day is not today.

I've recently replaced the pressure switch, so chances are that's not the problem.

I pulled the end bell partway off the motor (can't really get at everything without disconnecting the plumbing and dismounting it) and disconnected one side of the motor-start capacitor, and it measures out at 174uF. I can't read the nominal capacitance off the existing capacitor, so I don't know for sure what it's supposed to be.

A 'standard' replacement cap I have is specified at 161-193uF and measures at 191uF, so I could make things somewhat different by changing out the cap, but I'm not sure how much difference 10% would make, or if (based on the above) the startup current would actually increase.

Goulds doesn't specify replacement parts to more detail than the entire motor assy for $500-ish, so swapping the capacitor is probably my best bet if you think it'll work?

Is there a soft-start that works well on water pressure pumps? I've mostly seen mention of them here for central HVAC systems...

Thanks!

The cap does not increase the overall current, should drop it ever so slightly. It makes the start winding pull more so the primary windings can pull less, since the motor starts spinning in the right direction more quickly. We are talking in 60th's of a second here. Like peak from 100 to 95 with a shorter peak interval think 2/60 vs 4/60th's. A more rapid increase in reluctance because the rotor ramps up quicker.

Don't replace the cap, waste of time. I wouldn't sweat the flicker, and I'd go to 240 sooner rather than later. This should be trivial, simply wire for 240, and move the neutral at the panel to the other hot. Your current will immediately get cut in half or better. That by itself may solve a big portion of any flicker. If not a thermistor would be ideal as a current limiter on a pump.

 

[Dyotat100]

Here is a micro air soft start on 4t unit. Without soft start it is 120 amps. I have 18kpv also. I was having a lot of issues with starting ac until they figued out the firmware. Runs like a champ now. Will start ac with 6000w load

 

[ksmithaz1]

Can't say enough about upgrading the firmware. Any gear that seems to have firmware apparently must ship with firmware that only works properly under ideal conditions, on odd numbered Thursday's. That goes for the batteries as well, upgrade BMC with the tool, upgrade the inverter with your phone. A little annoying, but just get up to current. Thank god solar panels don't need firmware.

 

[timselectric]

Thank god solar panels don't need firmware.

Yet
lol

 

[wpns]

Can't say enough about upgrading the firmware. Any gear that seems to have firmware apparently must ship with firmware that only works properly under ideal conditions, on odd numbered Thursday's. That goes for the batteries as well, upgrade BMC with the tool, upgrade the inverter with your phone. A little annoying, but just get up to current. Thank god solar panels don't need firmware.

I know, right? My coffee cup and my ring get firmware updates, what’s next?