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Eg4 6500ex RV Grounding

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WilliamFR

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May 23, 2022
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Oh man :) I’m out here in the woods with my mobile setup 2hours away from home, and I’m having a slight issue with grounding. The metal on my RV is shocking so..it’s not grounded.

My setup
Solar panels > eg4 6500ex, 48v 280Ah Eve cell battery > ac out to Rv power plug > power watch dog > breaker box

My power watchdog is obviously throwing a ground code. Last year i slept in a huge tent with a breaker box grounded to a copper rod in the ground. I knew this would be an issue but I didn’t have time to test things AND I can’t seem to find any information. I think I’m searching for the wrong thing.

How do I ground this inverter? I still have the copper rod in the ground and plenty of wire.

Thanks!
 
sunshine_eggo said:
Hot skin!

There should be a neutral to ground bond. In most cases, an inverter providing the power should provide the bond. If the inverter is passing through AC power, it should disconnect the bond.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply, I’m not sure how to do that here - can you put that in idiot terms on what I’d need to do. I’m stranded out here lmao
 
That's providing the N-G bond you want.

I would not presume the process is the same for your inverters.

You should have 120VAC from L to N and L to G
0VAC from N to G

If you have voltage between N and G, there's no bond.
 
If you have the actual EG4-6500EX firmware 79.71 you need to set the (new) program 42 to dIS (disable) to activate the N-G-bonding inside the inverter! In older firmware versions there were "stationary" and a "mobile" firmware versions where the "mobile" version had the N-G-bonding automatically active while the "stationary" does not.

You should NOT remove the bonding screw(s) inside the AIO's (this is what I was told from SignatureSolar because it may also produce other problems, e.g. unclean/unstable output voltage!). This is one of the reasons, why the newest firmware version introduced program 42!

Because you are using more than one unit in parallel - the general rule is to have just ONE N-G-bonding point! So consider to let just one AIO do the N-G-bonding while the others does not, e.g. set program 42 in one AIO to disable (to enable the bonding) and in all other parallel AIO's to enable (to disable N-G-bonding).
 
fmeili1 said:
If you have the actual EG4-6500EX firmware 79.71 you need to set the (new) program 42 to dIS (disable) to activate the N-G-bonding inside the inverter! In older firmware versions there were "stationary" and a "mobile" firmware versions where the "mobile" version had the N-G-bonding automatically active while the "stationary" does not.

You should NOT remove the bonding screw(s) inside the AIO's (this is what I was told from SignatureSolar because it may also produce other problems, e.g. unclean/unstable output voltage!). This is one of the reasons, why the newest firmware version introduced program 42!

Because you are using more than one unit in parallel - the general rule is to have just ONE N-G-bonding point! So consider to let just one AIO do the N-G-bonding while the other does not, e.g. set program 42 in one AIO to disable (to enable the bonding) and in all other parallel AIO's to enable (to disable N-G-bonding).
Click to expand...
I only have one aio unit - no parallel. Also it’s the old firmware
 
fmeili1 said:
The stationary or the mobile version?
You need the mobile firmware version
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I’m stuck with what I got. Any idea how to ground it? And I’m not sure what version, but if I had to imagine it’s stationary
 
Older firmware would have the relay active normally, but it depends on if your inverter has the g/n relay screw removed or not. When did you purchase the inverter?
 
First, you should find out if the AIO is (internally) bonded or not, just disconnect all wires from AC-in AND AC-out and let the batteries connected. Turn on the AIO and do a continuity test (e.g. with an Ohm meter or a continuity tester) between AC-out neutral and AC-out ground. It's a good idea to do a voltage test between AC-out neutral and AC-out ground before using the Ohm meter - just in case to be really sure that there is no voltage which should not! Be careful because AC-out L will have 120V!
 
fmeili1 said:
First, you should find out if the AIO is (internally) bonded or not, just disconnect all wires from AC-in AND AC-out and let the batteries connected. Turn on the AIO and do a continuity test (e.g. with an Ohm meter or a continuity tester) between AC-out neutral and AC-out ground. It's a good idea to do a voltage test between AC-out neutral and AC-out ground before using the Ohm meter - just in case to be really sure that there is no voltage which should not! Be careful because AC-out L will have 120V!
Click to expand...
Will have to test tomorrow. Everything is under the camper in Milwaukee tool chests and it’s raining. I’m just gathering as much info as I can so I can knock it out in the morning
 
sunshine_eggo said:
You sure?

Turn ON the Aio and do a continuity test?
Click to expand...
ONLY between AC-out neutral and AC-out ground!!! Definitely NOT something with AC-out L (phase)!!! And as I wrote before, first check voltage between AC-out neutral and ground to be double sure that there is no voltage before doing this test!
 
fmeili1 said:
ONLY between AC-out neutral and AC-out ground!!! Definitely NOT something with AC-out L (phase)!!! And as I wrote before, first check voltage between AC-out neutral and ground to be double sure that there is no voltage before doing this test!
Click to expand...

I'm just hesitant to test continuity in a place where power-on may produce ~60V
 
I believe you should be able to test continuity with the system odd between N and G. I believe it’s a NC relay.
 
fmeili1 said:
You are absolutely right in general, you have to be very careful here and need to know what you are doing - that's the reason why he should measure the voltage before doing such a test!
Click to expand...

fmeili1 said:
First, you should find out if the AIO is (internally) bonded or not, just disconnect all wires from AC-in AND AC-out and let the batteries connected. Turn on the AIO and do a continuity test (e.g. with an Ohm meter or a continuity tester) between AC-out neutral and AC-out ground. It's a good idea to do a voltage test between AC-out neutral and AC-out ground before using the Ohm meter - just in case to be really sure that there is no voltage which should not! Be careful because AC-out L will have 120V!
Click to expand...
Right now the only thing I have connected is the battery. No wiring into ac in or out. When touching my multimeter to the ac out neutral and ac out ground, I’m getting 64v. Kinda stopped there because you said it should not have any voltage. What’s next? Also If there’s any way we can chat I’d greatly appreciate it. I have telegram or fb messenger. Anything helps :(
 
Oops, my inverter button depressed by mistake. It’s not 64v on that output. It’s 1.75v if I touch black to neutral/red to ground. 3.26v the other way around
 
WilliamFR said:
Oops, my inverter button depressed by mistake. It’s not 64v on that output. It’s 1.75v if I touch black to neutral/red to ground. 3.26v the other way around
Click to expand...
Because it's not zero volt, the inverter does not provide a N-G-bonding internally (via the bonding relay) - but you need a N-G-bonding for your mobile usage - it's not required to do an Ohm test additionally. So I think the only clean solution would be to
  • install the newest firmware 79.71 which will give you the option to program the N-G-bonding by intention
If I were you I would do this.

A maybe simpler but" not so clean" option would be to install a wire bridge on the AC-out between neutral and ground to achieve the same. BUT in case someone may update the firmware in future to control the internal N-G-bonding relay while you still have the bonding wire bridge installed, it would not behave like expected (because the wire bridge is permanent)! From the electrical point of view it's the same if you bond it with a bridge or the inverter does the bond internally.

Attention:
If you ever think about connecting AC-in to shore power as an option, the bonding has to be disabled in the inverter, because only one bonding point is allowed and this will be provided in that case already from the shore power (grid)! When the inverter switches to grid mode (bypass and grid battery charging), you would have two bonding points! So if you consider using shore power, you must not install the N-G wire bridge by yourself but instead update to the newest firmware and let the inverter doing the bonding depending on it's operation mode and program 42 setting.
 
fmeili1 said:
Because it's not zero volt, the inverter does not provide a N-G-bonding internally (via the bonding relay) - but you need a N-G-bonding for your mobile usage - it's not required to do an Ohm test additionally. So I think the only clean solution would be to
  • install the newest firmware 79.71 which will give you the option to program the N-G-bonding by intention
If I were you I would do this.

A maybe simpler but" not so clean" option would be to install a wire bridge on the AC-out between neutral and ground to achieve the same. BUT in case someone may update the firmware in future to control the internal N-G-bonding relay while you still have the bonding wire bridge installed, it would not behave like expected (because the wire bridge is permanent)! From the electrical point of view it's the same if you bond it with a bridge or the inverter does the bond internally.

Attention:
If you ever think about connecting AC-in to shore power as an option, the bonding has to be disabled in the inverter, because only one bonding point is allowed and this will be provided in that case already from the shore power (grid)! When the inverter switches to grid mode (bypass and grid battery charging), you would have two bonding points! So if you consider using shore power, you must not install the N-G wire bridge by yourself but instead update to the newest firmware and let the inverter doing the bonding depending on it's operation mode and program 42 setting.
Click to expand...
Well, I suppose that’s good and bad news. Updating the firmware is the fix, I just can’t do it now :)

Once I update to the newest firmware, does the AIO automate the NG bond settings or is that something I have to manually change each time I use ac in?
 
WilliamFR said:
Well, I suppose that’s good and bad news. Updating the firmware is the fix, I just can’t do it now :)

Once I update to the newest firmware, does the AIO automate the NG bond settings or is that something I have to manually change each time I use ac in?
Click to expand...
See the following video from EG4-Electronic. At about time 1:14 he explains that the default for setting 42 (disable) is that the N-G-bonding relay works for typical mobile usage. This means, if the inverter runs in battery mode it does the N-G-bond and as soon as the inverter switches to bypass/grid mode (in case you have connected the AC-in to the grid), it releases automatically it's own N-G-bond and the grid N-G-bond is "visible" on the AC-out. This is what you usually want to achieve! So you don't need to change the setting anymore.

Just for clarification: The other option (enable program 42) is only useful for stationary installations with a grid connected AC-in where a common neutral setup is chosen and the gird based N-G-bond is always visible at the AC-out - independent if the inverter runs in battery or bypass/grid mode!

If you never have shore power connected to AC-in (real off-grid) you may use a self made N-G-bonding wire bridge on the AC-out of your inverter until you'll find the time to update the firmware and later remove your own N-G-bonding wire bridge than.
 
fmeili1 said:
See the following video from EG4-Electronic. At about time 1:14 he explains that the default for setting 42 (disable) is that the N-G-bonding relay works for typical mobile usage. This means, if the inverter runs in battery mode it does the N-G-bond and as soon as the inverter switches to bypass/grid mode (in case you have connected the AC-in to the grid), it releases automatically it's own N-G-bond and the grid N-G-bond is "visible" on the AC-out. This is what you usually want to achieve! So you don't need to change the setting anymore.

Just for clarification: The other option (enable program 42) is only useful for stationary installations with a grid connected AC-in where a common neutral setup is chosen and the gird based N-G-bond is always visible at the AC-out - independent if the inverter runs in battery or bypass/grid mode!

If you never have shore power connected to AC-in (real off-grid) you may use a self made N-G-bonding wire bridge on the AC-out of your inverter until you'll find the time to update the firmware and later remove your own N-G-bonding wire bridge than.
Click to expand...
Thank you for explaining everything. It’s rare I’ll ever be connected to actual shore power. It will mostly be a mobile generator. When my batteries get low, I’ll kick the generator on for a charge up. That generator doesn’t have a NG bond by default. I had to buy this ground neutral plug for it to be accepted by my RVs surge protector.

Power Watchdog Hughes Autoformers Ground Neutral Plug https://a.co/d/3UcapwP

Since my generator is going through the inverter, do I need to unplug this and leave the inverter ng bond relay disabled full time?
 
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