EG4 PowerPro or Ruixu for 18KPV?

[mciholas]

For a system with one EG4 18KPV inverter, grid tied, 11 KW solar array, batteries primarily for backup, which would you pick for batteries:

A. Two EG4 PowerPro 14.3 KWH batteries, total 28.6 KWH for $7600.

B. Six Ruixu 5.12 KWH batteries with rack, total 30.7 KWH for $8300 (on sale for 10% off right now, $7470).

C. __________________________________________ (give me your advice)

Since this is a grid tie system, I need all solutions to meet code and pass inspection. I feel moderately secure with that for the EG4, but less so with the Ruixu. Anybody have insight into that? This would be in Florida if it matters. What UL certs do these batteries need to have?

I kind of like the Ruixu rack over the EG4 visually, will also take up less linear wall space. I also like the ability to change 1/6 of the energy out easily whereas removing the EG4 battery once it is stacked under the inverter is seemingly much harder and you lose 1/2 your energy if one goes down.

The EG4 wiring is kind of all figured out with the big junction box that sits on top of them. The wiring from the Ruixu cabinet to the inverter is not as preplanned and I'm not sure how that goes and what code requirements the battery leads have to meet. Do I need some sort of fusing or disconnect? The 18KPV has a battery breaker in it and the Ruixu will have BMS protection, so I am not certain.

I don't perceive any functional difference, I think they both will communicate with the 18KPV and perform the intended task. Is that correct?

Mike C.

 

[Markus_EG4]

Power Pro hands down. You get so many more benefits with the power pro.

I also have a couple of people on here with RIUXU batteries that do not communicate properly with the inverter. I will let them jump and to tell you that part tho

 

[mciholas]

Power Pro hands down. You get so many more benefits with the power pro.

What are they? Don't be vague.

Also, what if I use EG4 rack batteries instead, which is basically the same idea. Does your opinion change if I switch to EG4 rack batteries, that is, your brand?

I also have a couple of people on here with RIUXU batteries that do not communicate properly with the inverter. I will let them jump and to tell you that part tho

Is that user error or a deficient product?

Will seems to be high on them:

He suggests they communicate decently enough.

Mike C.

 

[Markus_EG4]

First of all you get your battery data on the eg4 monitoring site. You will also be able to do remote updates to the batteries soon. Server Rack LLs or the Wall Power Pro.

Riuxu not communicating properly people on here can verify. I do know there is a protocol problem and its been verified.

 

[darrell2002]

If you need to have a 9540 certified system, the Riuxuwould be problematic.

 

[mciholas]

If you need to have a 9540 certified system, the Riuxuwould be problematic.

Ruixu claims UL9540 is "pending".

I probably do need UL9540 for Florida code. So that either removes them from contention or I can wait for them to get it.

Mike C.

 

[mciholas]

First of all you get your battery data on the eg4 monitoring site.

Are you saying the 18KPV won't pass battery data to the app if the battery brand is not EG4 also? You put a brand filter on the data?

You will also be able to do remote updates to the batteries soon. Server Rack LLs or the Wall Power Pro.

Not sure this is compelling since the Ruixu don't have some display with firmware you interact with. One hopes the firmware inside them rarely needs updating once working.

I think it is slightly odd to give the battery a display inside a wiring cover like the PowerPro. Had it been on the front panel, I could understand that, but it doesn't seem all that useful. A battery that communicates with the inverter properly seems sufficient and minimizes the electronics inside the battery unit, and thus the firmware, too.

Riuxu not communicating properly people on here can verify. I do know there is a protocol problem and its been verified.

Would like to get a link to posts or verification of this issue. My attempt to search for it on the forum wasn't fruitful.

Mike C.

 

[Markus_EG4]

Are you saying the 18KPV won't pass battery data to the app if the battery brand is not EG4 also? You put a brand filter on the data?

Yes this is more then just giving this option to any battery. Software from both sides and it took a bit to do.

You can aslo shut the whole system down battery breaker and all with EG4.

Not sure this is compelling since the Ruixu don't have some display with firmware you interact with. One hopes the firmware inside them rarely needs updating once working.

For new features firmware will always be updated

I think it is slightly odd to give the battery a display inside a wiring cover like the PowerPro. Had it been on the front panel, I could understand that, but it doesn't seem all that useful. A battery that communicates with the inverter properly seems sufficient and minimizes the electronics inside the battery unit, and thus the firmware, too.

Get the Server rack LLs then

Would like to get a link to posts or verification of this issue. My attempt to search for it on the forum wasn't fruitful.

Mike C.

 

[marionw]

Research, research, research.
Contact the manufacturer/distributor for any piece of equipment you are considering investing in. Their willingness to respond will correlate to after purchase product/technical support.

Verify compatibility, particularly with communications, regardless of whether you intend to operate closed or open loop.
1: Are special communications cables required and are they provided/available.
2: What software is available/provided. For example does the battery manufacturer provide software that allows you to monitor each battery and also perform BMS firmware updates if required.
3: Is there software for monitoring and/or programming the inverter.
4: Is there a capability for monitoring with 3rd party software such as Solar Assistant and/or Home Assistant.
5: Ask for technical information on each piece of equipment; especially communication protocols.
6: For the batteries, ask which BMS is installed. With this information many on this forum can provide more details with respect to compatibility.

Keep copies of all correspondence

 

[1201]

C. Build your own 28kwh battery for about $4500

 

[mciholas]

You can aslo shut the whole system down battery breaker and all with EG4.

Is that a code requirement? I would assume so, and desirable if not regardless.

With the 18KPV in RSD, the inverter is shutdown. The PowerPro will depower the battery cables from what I understand. What will the Ruixu do? Do they get a message and then they turn off the outputs or do they stay powered?

The Ruixu has a dry contact RSD feature so it seems possible to wire that to the RSD system so that they shutdown with RSD activation. That would seem to meet the RSD function if depowering battery cables is part of that. Only the master battery unit needs to have this input, the master will signals the slaves to shutdown.

From what I read, the equivalent unit from EG4 would be the LL-S as the LL and LifePower4 don't seem to have RSD features. Maybe I missed that.

For new features firmware will always be updated

With sufficient telemetry and control, the battery doesn't seem like it would be the focus of a lot of new features. I can deal with firmware updates via whatever method they have, even if that's down to the JTAG/SWD level.

Get the Server rack LLs then

A 6 unit rack of LL-S is a fairly healthy price premium over the Ruixu. A 6 unit rack of LifePower4 would not be, but if RSD is required, and they don't have it, that factors into the equation.

Mike C.

 

[42OhmsPA]

C. Build your own 28kwh battery for about $4500

D. If set on pre-built buy the Ruixu and run open loop.
E. Buy one pre-built to pass inspection then build your own.

 

[mciholas]

C. Build your own 28kwh battery for about $4500

Fantastic!

Now tell me how to do it such that:

1. It is compliant with Florida code, including UL9540.

2. It will pass inspection.

3. It will give decent monitoring and control.

Are you suggesting getting the unit inspected with no batteries and hooking them up after they leave?

Mike C.

 

[1201]

Fantastic!

Now tell me how to do it such that:

1. It is compliant with Florida code, including UL9540.

2. It will pass inspection.

3. It will give decent monitoring and control.

Are you suggesting getting the unit inspected with no batteries and hooking them up after they leave?

Mike C.

If you need your system to be fully ul9540 then a diy system will not work, and I can't advise you to get the system permitted without batteries and then add batteries later.

What do you mean by monitoring and control?

 

[hwy17]

If you are using the 18kPV and one of these two batteries, I would go with powerpro.

Technical benefits aside the real benefit is ongoing support EG4 is motivated to keep developing both firmwares to work with each other.

 

[mciholas]

D. If set on pre-built buy the Ruixu and run open loop.

I really thought people had them communicating with the inverter. They claim to support the protocol for the 18KPV.

E. Buy one pre-built to pass inspection then build your own.

Yeah, I get that. If I can do it properly, I will go for that first.

Mike C.

 

[mciholas]

What do you mean by monitoring and control?

Some means to know all 6 units are doing the right thing, none are faulted out, they are working correctly, that I have a valid indication of each battery SoC and of the whole system.

Mike C.

 

[1201]

Some means to know all 6 units are doing the right thing, none are faulted out, they are working correctly, that I have a valid indication of each battery SoC and of the whole system.

Mike C.

I don't know what options the prebuilt battery have for that but I do know that a diy system with a jk bms has Bluetooth for monitoring and control and if you want more monitoring, like anywhere in the world you can connect them to solar assistant

 

[42OhmsPA]

I really thought people had them communicating with the inverter. They claim to support the protocol for the 18KPV.

So did I, I thought @Will Prowse had comms working in his video but I could be wrong. In my opinion comms are overrated, if a system is designed and programmed properly there should be no need.

Edit - I was wrong. Post in thread 'Paralleling the EG4 PowerPro Wall battery.' https://diysolarforum.com/threads/paralleling-the-eg4-powerpro-wall-battery.67796/post-866920

Yeah, I get that. If I can do it properly, I will go for that first.

Mike C.

I suppose that depends on one's definition of properly. I consider many members builds to be proper and they build their own batteries.

Regardless what you choose you will get great support here.

 

[G00SE]

While I may think there are “cheaper” or other “better” options…the power pro does and offers what you are seeking, it’s straight forward, removes the guess work, and not absurdly priced.
Seems like a reasonable choice