EG4 PowerPro or Ruixu for 18KPV?

[rsmiele]

Has anyone looked into the new Bigbattery Ethos stackable batteries? They look like an alternative to the EG4 PowerPro except the price per kWh is higher. Bigbattery also resells their version of the PowerPro as the Rhino 2. I plan to mate these batteries with the Luxpower 12kw inverter ( aka EG4 18kw); approx 30 kWh battery storage total. I like the ease of the stackable concept for installation and expansion, the the price premium is too high. The BatteryEVO site shows that they will be releasing their version of stackable battery solution soon. Thoughts?

Bigbattery Ethos $375/kWh

EG4 PowerPro $265/kWh

 

[mciholas]

If you are using the 18kPV and one of these two batteries, I would go with powerpro.

Technical benefits aside the real benefit is ongoing support EG4 is motivated to keep developing both firmwares to work with each other.

Those are valid points.

My dislikes with the PowerPro are the heavy weight of one unit, the way it gets built into the system under the junction box making it hard to change out, and the loss of 50% of your power if one fails. It also takes up more wall space than I really have making the Ruixu (or EG4) rack a somewhat better fit.

I like the clean look of the cabinet Ruixu has, and the ability to replace individual battery units of smaller size. If someday I need to replace the inverter, I think the rack mount batteries are easier to integrate into a new inverter, not being so specific to one inverter brand like the PowerPro seems to be.

I am leaning towards the PowerPro so I am not against that option, but I wanted to look around and see if I can find something that fits better.

Is there any option to stack two PowerPros on the floor, in front of the other? That would change the packaging to better suit my location. I guess I could custom make a bigger junction box to cover both, but I think this would violate the UL9540 spacing since it doesn't follow the spacing in the manual that shows along the wall with 30 cm spacing. My understanding is that if you don't meet the spacing in the manual, UL9540 is void.



Mike C.

 

[Hedges]

Weatherproof, so you can put it outside the house for greater safety.

Fewer batteries (or cells) in parallel seems like a good thing.

Single vendor, let them point at themselves.

Since you would have 2, that should be enough to keep operating waiting for service. Even better, get 3.

 

[G00SE]

Those are valid points.

My dislikes with the PowerPro are the heavy weight of one unit, the way it gets built into the system under the junction box making it hard to change out, and the loss of 50% of your power if one fails. It also takes up more wall space than I really have making the Ruixu (or EG4) rack a somewhat better fit.

I like the clean look of the cabinet Ruixu has, and the ability to replace individual battery units of smaller size. If someday I need to replace the inverter, I think the rack mount batteries are easier to integrate into a new inverter, not being so specific to one inverter brand like the PowerPro seems to be.

I am leaning towards the PowerPro so I am not against that option, but I wanted to look around and see if I can find something that fits better.

Is there any option to stack two PowerPros on the floor, in front of the other? That would change the packaging to better suit my location. I guess I could custom make a bigger junction box to cover both, but I think this would violate the UL9540 spacing since it doesn't follow the spacing in the manual that shows along the wall with 30 cm spacing. My understanding is that if you don't meet the spacing in the manual, UL9540 is void.

View attachment 198883

Mike C

@Will Prowse had posted about his initial set up with these and had them oriented a bit differently. Not secure, but I’m sure one could devise a way.
Ironically, in that same post he says his two favorites are both the powerpro and ruixu units





https://diysolarforum.com/threads/i-really-like-the-new-powerpro-battery.67213/post-847675

 

[mciholas]

Weatherproof, so you can put it outside the house for greater safety.

In Florida, outside means corrosion. Inside is hard enough to keep equipment healthy. I was intending to put the battery and inverter in the garage next to the breaker panels. One downside to that is the garage is warmer than outside, but outside would be in direct sunlight (south wall) which cause solar gain.

So, inside is where I want to put it.

Fewer batteries (or cells) in parallel seems like a good thing.

Without knowing the internals, the PowerPro might be as many cells.

Another way to look at it is smaller cells are less dangerous if something goes wrong. The energy is more isolated, more BMS circuits involved.

Single vendor, let them point at themselves.

Always good when you can get it.

Since you would have 2, that should be enough to keep operating waiting for service. Even better, get 3.

It looks like it would be a real chore to remove the one PowerPro battery under the inverter. The junction box has live grid and load AC, too. The install videos all have the battery being clipped to the wall first, requiring lowering the battery on a wall clip, then the junction box, then the inverter. I think you'd have to unstack the whole thing, inverter and all, to get it out. True? If so, the part of the system that will require replacement in 10-15 years is the hardest part to get out.

I like the idea of trying to integrate the battery more nicely with the system, but future maintenance and equipment swaps or upgrades might be a lot easier with rack batteries instead of having to take my whole system apart.

Mike C.

 

[Hedges]

I think PowerPro is 280 Ah cells, 16s.

Depending on temperature, you could climate control an enclosure for them. Window A/C is cheap, especially used. That could give good payback in cell life.

You may be able to plan wiring box for service. Gap between them?
The installation pictures with straight conduit look clean, but "S" shape with flexible conduit should be easier to take apart.

 

[Rachel Wang-RUIXU]

Some Projects from our customers connecting with EG4 18kPV Inverter.

 

[mciholas]

Some Projects from our customers connecting with EG4 18kPV Inverter.

And how well does it work? It is closed loop? Does battery SoC report on the invert screen and through the inverter app? Etc...

In two of the three pictures, I can see communication wiring between units, so something is talking to the batteries.

How far away is UL9540? Is that a tease or are you going to achieve that soon?

Mike C.

 

[Rachel Wang-RUIXU]

And how well does it work? It is closed loop? Does battery SoC report on the invert screen and through the inverter app? Etc...

In two of the three pictures, I can see communication wiring between units, so something is talking to the batteries.

How far away is UL9540? Is that a tease or are you going to achieve that soon?

Mike C.

At present, I have not heard from customers about the battery can't communicate with 18kpv
Here is a video from current connected about EG4 6000XP.

We are doing UL9540A now,and our own brand inverter will be released next month,then we will combine our own brand inverter with our battery bank to do UL9540. so UL9540 will be ready Q2/2024.

 

[mciholas]

At present, I have not heard from customers about the battery can't communicate with 18kpv

The video with the EG4 6000XP is encouraging though, but the comment at the end about it being "unsupported" is concerning. I'd like to have a clear report that EG4 18KPV and Ruixu rack batteries work and report at least SoC. If I don't have SoC reports, programming some features won't work well, like using SoC levels to control features.

One of the things I like about the EG4 18KPV is the fact it can work with other batteries. If that's problematic, that may cause me to look at other inverters like Sol Ark or maybe see what the Midnite Solar new unit will be like. I like supporting companies that play nice with each other.

We are doing UL9540A now,and our own brand inverter will be released next month,then we will combine our own brand inverter with our battery bank to do UL9540. so UL9540 will be ready Q2/2024.

What will be the specs of the Ruixu inverter?

I don't quite understand the connection between UL9540 cert on the battery and having your won inverter. Won't the UL9540 cert for the battery apply no matter which inverter it is paired with? Or will the Ruixu UL9540 cert only apply when used with a Ruixu inverter? If that's the case, that makes your batteries less interesting to me.

Mike C.

 

[darrell2002]

9540A testing is for the battery alone. Many batteries have 9540A. 9540 is inverter + battery tested together. You likely need 9540 to get permitted. 9540A alone is probably not enough. EG4 is unlikely to test batteries other than their own unless there is some special agreement. If Ruixu is going to make their own inverter, that's probably the only way to get 9540 with their battery. I doubt Ruixu would want to apply for 9540 with an inverter other than their own

 

[mciholas]

9540A testing is for the battery alone. Many batteries have 9540A. 9540 is inverter + battery tested together. You likely need 9540 to get permitted. 9540A alone is probably not enough. EG4 is unlikely to test batteries other than their own unless there is some special agreement. If Ruixu is going to make their own inverter, that's probably the only way to get 9540 with their battery. I doubt Ruixu would want to apply for 9540 with an inverter other than their own

It is so hard to get straight answers on exactly what I need to pass code and inspection.

I'm starting to think the right path here is to install the inverter and panels, no battery, get that inspected and utility approved for net metering.

Then, someday later, batteries might magically appear connected to the system.

Mike C.

 

[Quattrohead]

9540A testing is for the battery alone. Many batteries have 9540A. 9540 is inverter + battery tested together. You likely need 9540 to get permitted. 9540A alone is probably not enough. EG4 is unlikely to test batteries other than their own unless there is some special agreement. If Ruixu is going to make their own inverter, that's probably the only way to get 9540 with their battery. I doubt Ruixu would want to apply for 9540 with an inverter other than their own

This is the correct answer.
The EG4 18k + PowerPro or LL-S batteries is one way to get a fully permitted and approved system.
Another way would be the EB Cube system.

 

[hwy17]

It is so hard to get straight answers on exactly what I need to pass code and inspection.

I'm starting to think the right path here is to install the inverter and panels, no battery, get that inspected and utility approved for net metering.

Then, someday later, batteries might magically appear connected to the system.

Probably a good idea. Whether the combined ESS system certification rule for 9540 is enforced depends on whether you're AHJ is on NEC 2020, and then it also depends on how your AHJ interprets the text in NEC 2020.

 

[Oldphile]

There are restrictions on where you can put batteries in a garage. This diagram is from the IRC concerning vehicle impact protection. Florida probably enforces this.

 

[y0bailey]

@Will Prowse had posted about his initial set up with these and had them oriented a bit differently. Not secure, but I’m sure one could devise a way.
Ironically, in that same post he says his two favorites are both the powerpro and ruixu units

View attachment 198886

View attachment 198887

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/i-really-like-the-new-powerpro-battery.67213/post-847675

Will needs a safety rope. I've heard this will make it pass inspection

 

[millsan1]

A. And I have the EG4 version of B

 

[btrocke]

At present, I have not heard from customers about the battery can't communicate with 18kpv
Here is a video from current connected about EG4 6000XP.

We are doing UL9540A now,and our own brand inverter will be released next month,then we will combine our own brand inverter with our battery bank to do UL9540. so UL9540 will be ready Q2/2024.

I’d love to chat with you on this. I’ve had nothing but troubles with my Ruixu batteries in closed loop communication with the EG4 18kpv. I’ve tried so many different things and I’m at wits end with it. Right now they seem to work “okay” but the inverter doesn’t seem to be getting all the information from the batteries. Biggest thing right now is that every now and then the batteries will only output 600w when solar is present even though according to the inverter discharge limit is 300amps. I have 3 batteries and the inverter doesn’t seem to know about them. And now just today BMS limit charge fluctuates between 120a and 180a. It also seems like the batteries drop 1% ever 3ish hours overnight even though nothing is pulling from them and that seems like a big drop in standby.

 

[krazyclimber]

RUiXU | Lithi2-16 | 51.2V314Ah | 16kWh LiFePO4 Battery​

UL9540 pending with discount $2999.

https://www.ruixubattery.com//product-page/lithi2-14-3-battery-bank?utm_campaign=837ba317-4fbf-43f3-8848-cc7d16daed25&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&cid=730a2f8e-73f9-495f-a72d-20b958308b3b

 

[ksmithaz1]

I’d love to chat with you on this. I’ve had nothing but troubles with my Ruixu batteries in closed loop communication with the EG4 18kpv. I’ve tried so many different things and I’m at wits end with it. Right now they seem to work “okay” but the inverter doesn’t seem to be getting all the information from the batteries. Biggest thing right now is that every now and then the batteries will only output 600w when solar is present even though according to the inverter discharge limit is 300amps. I have 3 batteries and the inverter doesn’t seem to know about them. And now just today BMS limit charge fluctuates between 120a and 180a. It also seems like the batteries drop 1% ever 3ish hours overnight even though nothing is pulling from them and that seems like a big drop in standby.

I have 6x5KWH Ruixu and 6x5KWH EG4 independently monitored on a pair of 18KPV/12's. 'A' is the EG4, 'B' is RUiXU.



I have not really noticed anything bizarre, though I did recently have them trip 150A breakers (below spec should have been 200A, now replaced) when I had an extremely high load running from battery. The result was rather poor behavior on the inverter side trying to push 18+KW to the load mostly from battery, mimimal PV (maybe 1-2kw combined), and only one of the inverters actually having battery. It kind of went nuts instead of shutting down. The RUiXU's seem to discharge and charge a bit faster than the EG4's (green SOC curves). Inverter seems to average the numbers for some functions.

I assume you have the RUIXU's set to Luxpower, and you are using a straight thru data cable?:







i think it's using CAN, but I don't know for sure. I just have it set for SOC. with my thresholds and it kinda just does what it's supposed to. The charge/discharge rates are generally as expected. I poll both inverters every 30 seconds, and while the charge/discharge rates are never the same they are always within the range of my expectations. Currently the EG4's (on 160 the primary) are working marginally harder than the RUiXU's (on 231 the secondary). Numbers are generally similarly close. charging or discharging,


I generally try to make sure I make the most minimal changes to my settings. Also you may note the loss of ~150W. Pretty sure that's the inverter overhead + conversion loss (about 75W each at the moment) the % drops slightly as the output goes up, ie the delta rises somewhat less than the power. I think the units consume 40 or 50-odd watts, + around 7% conversion loss, YMMV. These numbers come directly from the inverters.