Forget NEM 3, CA should go to TOU

[DIYrich]

Interesting CA Duck Curve. Power from Grid generation is actually 0 (lowest net power day in spring):

As solar capacity grows, duck curves are getting deeper in California

www.eia.gov

Forget NEM 3. CA should go to TOU. Pay you nothing for power between 8am-5pm, and lots for power between 6pm-9pm. Lots of incentive to install batteries to time shift the solar production.

CT has a variation of that. We have straight net metering. But, if you install batteries, and let the utility drain it between 3-8pm, you get a nice subsidy. Even more if you let the utility schedule the power for when they need it. That, plus the federal tax credit almost pays for the battery over 10 years.

Above graph is for the worst day in a year. I'm guessing with new construction requiring solar, a normal summer will get there soon. It also implies that CA cost of power for will go up as more power is produced from peaking plants (natural gas) vs base load plants (coal and nuclear). Energy incentives should be geared towards the long-term need - power storage to flatten the curve.

 

[Hedges]

Fine!

Pay us nothing for exports 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM. We will disconnect our GT PV during those hours.
Then, you will discover the Duck's Back Curve is a lie. The greatest demand for power is afternoon, maybe 4:00 to 5:00 PM. But without our PV input, the grid will collapse.

The last kWh delivered at 1:00 PM may be worth less than zero, but all the other kWh delivered were offsetting fossil fuel consumption.

 

[Lt.Dan]

This is essentially what I'm already doing in CA. I store all mine and then dump almost 40kWh every day between 4-9pm. I get credits for $0.60/kWh (I think it's $0.60), vs $0.25/kWh any other time.

 

[BentleyJ]

Here is another angle on this issue. Why is it ALWAYS the customers who have to pay over inflated energy prices to discourage usage. Why aren't the so called public utility companies being made to share the burden by installing large energy storage facilities? There are vast open spaces in the Southern deserts and central valley where many high voltage transmission lines are located. Perhaps something other than batteries due to the heat but flywheel devices or hydrogen fuel cells are alternatives or even molten salt.

 

[Shimmy]

All this shows is that ~5-10GWH of grid storage is needed quickly. Grid storage fixes both sides of the duck curve.

Longer term, additional storage will be needed.

 

[OutlawSolar]

This is essentially what I'm already doing in CA. I store all mine and then dump almost 40kWh every day between 4-9pm. I get credits for $0.60/kWh (I think it's $0.60), vs $0.25/kWh any other time.

Does PGE interconnection agreement allow exporting after the sun down? Someone on the forum said this will violate the agreement, causing PGE to terminate the agreement.

 

[Mattb4]

Looks like Cali needs to encourage people to charge their electric vehicles during work hours. Charging 9-5 what a way to make a living.

 

[Hedges]

PG&E doesn't want us to help out by charging batteries from grid when PV abundant, then backfeed during evening when they're having trouble. Only allowed to charge from our own PV if we're going to backfeed from batteries.

Controlling loads is far less capital intensive and more quickly deployed than storage.
Adjust when EV charges, pool filtering (at least private, where law doesn't say when), run A/C to cool house earlier, maybe some factories can adjust production times (probably already on time of use and making those decisions).

Looks like Cali needs to encourage people to charge their electric vehicles during work hours. Charging 9-5 what a way to make a living.

And the best way to encourage that is to let me use at employer's charger the credits I'm earning with PV at home. We put these systems in planning to get big credits in the day and pay low prices at night. Time of use has shifted, so tariffs should get with the times.

 

[hwy17]

How about we just pay solar exporters the real time spot market price at their local substation? Now that would actually be fair.

And that does mean charging them for their exports too when the spot price goes negative.

 

[Lt.Dan]

Does PGE interconnection agreement allow exporting after the sun down? Someone on the forum said this will violate the agreement, causing PGE to terminate the agreement.

I'm not on PGE, I'm on SoCal Edison. There is no regulation on when you can export.

Or atleast I think. I have been known to export in the middle of the night too. They've never said anything.

 

[Shimmy]

How about we just pay solar exporters the real time spot market price at their local substation? Now that would actually be fair.

And that does mean charging them for their exports too when the spot price goes negative.

Real time pricing is rough on consumers; most lack sufficient information for it to be trasparent and not just a money grab.

 

[DIYrich]

Why aren't the so called public utility companies being made to share the burden by installing large energy storage facilities?

They are happy to build it if the regulators allow it in the rate base.

 

[DIYrich]

Fine!

Pay us nothing for exports 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM. We will disconnect our GT PV during those hours.
Then, you will discover the Duck's Back Curve is a lie. The greatest demand for power is afternoon, maybe 4:00 to 5:00 PM. But without our PV input, the grid will collapse.

The last kWh delivered at 1:00 PM may be worth less than zero, but all the other kWh delivered were offsetting fossil fuel consumption.

Econ 101: marginal supply vs demand sets the price. Water price is a good example. The first gallon is worth more than gold. Last gallon, not so much.