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Fused Disconnects?

dixonge

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Jun 18, 2021
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So - supposedly fuses are better than breakers. But breakers allow for an easy disconnect.

Is there any such thing as a disconnect switch that contains a fuse? I would like to be able to easily disconnect:

1. Panels from SCC
2. SCC from battery
3. Battery from Inverter

The only fusible disconnects I can find are the large boxes like you typically see in houses, and I don't have room for that in my RV.

Are there any smaller marine-type disconnects w/ fuses?
 
So ANL fuses for everything, then separate disconnects. Are there any inherent benefits of using those typical dial disconnects vs. the ones where you turn and remove a 'key' ?
 
So ANL fuses for everything, then separate disconnects. Are there any inherent benefits of using those typical dial disconnects vs. the ones where you turn and remove a 'key' ?
The only benefit I see is the key ones usually can be mounted into a wall panel, with the wiring behind the panel. By the way the links I posted are for MEGAFuse, which is a step between ANL and class-T
 
This will give you an idea of the DIN rail fuse holders that are available, for multiple fuse types.
The ones with a lever are touch-safe, good for higher voltage PV strings.
Seem to cover 1A to 60A.


There are a variety of DC and AC breakers available for DIN rail as well.

Be careful of the no-name equipment.. I got a 2-pole 63A AC transfer switch off eBay out of China, and it started buzzing. So I replaced with with Square D box. I think there are some good brands as well. Schneider of course, but I saw some modular parts to gang multiple poles from another.
 
So - supposedly fuses are better than breakers. But breakers allow for an easy disconnect.

Is there any such thing as a disconnect switch that contains a fuse? I would like to be able to easily disconnect:

1. Panels from SCC
2. SCC from battery
3. Battery from Inverter

The only fusible disconnects I can find are the large boxes like you typically see in houses, and I don't have room for that in my RV.

Are there any smaller marine-type disconnects w/ fuses?

For battery something like this ?
https://ep-us.mersen.com/sites/mersen_us/files/DS-UL98-Fusible-Disconnect-Switches-Mersen.pdf

class_j_fuseholder_switch.png
 
That switch is AC. Donn’t use it for a battery. DC Switches are much bigger amp per amp to prevent arcing which is not as big of a concern for AC..
I was wondering about that - it did say 'low voltage' but didn't mention DC anywhere.

Having said that, I have to presume that there are DC fusible disconnects for DIN rail out there somewhere. Any recommendations?
 
Having said that, I have to presume that there are DC fusible disconnects for DIN rail out there somewhere. Any recommendations?
Keeping in mind I use their breakers not fuses, I’d recommend the Mindnite Solar fuse holders.


These are definitely not the way to shut off a PV array by removing them. There’s supposed to be a seperate switch for those. Those switches are large because the arc needs to be extinguished. On the same site I linked, midnite has a document about testing their breakers and which talks about arcing and the DC switch it used.

The breakers midnite sells is made to turn on and off as much as you need. I’d only use those for SCC to panels or between the SCC and a busbar, I would not use them for Battery or Inverter. Class T for lithium or ANL fuses for Lead Acid.
 
The only benefit I see is the key ones usually can be mounted into a wall panel, with the wiring behind the panel. By the way the links I posted are for MEGAFuse, which is a step between ANL and class-T
well I need surface-mount so I guess the key-type disconnects are ruled out. I'd love to figure out a way to put *all* fuses and disconnects on a DIN rail system (along with bus bars) but that seems like it would be a bit tricky...
 
Trying to organize/visualize my options better here:

ConnectionOCPDDisconnect/switch
Panels <--> SCC

SCC <--> battery
Battery <--> InverterANL (positive side only)

ANL is in-place. I also have a couple of circuit breakers/fuse thingies originally between panels and SCC that I need to reinstall. But nothing between SCC and battery and no easy quick-disconnects anywhere.
 
On the same site I linked, midnite has a document about testing their breakers and which talks about arcing and the DC switch it used.
Unable to find this document - do you have a link?
The breakers midnite sells is made to turn on and off as much as you need. I’d only use those for SCC to panels or between the SCC and a busbar, I would not use them for Battery or Inverter.
Why not for battery or inverter?

It seems as if I am doomed to use the massive marine-style battery switches...
 
That switch is AC. Donn’t use it for a battery. DC Switches are much bigger amp per amp to prevent arcing which is not as big of a concern for AC..

Turn to page 4 and you will see
Vac = 600V
Vdc = 250V
for the 200A.
More than enough for a 12/24/48V system
Also uses Class J fuses (Thats like Class T, but the interrupting rating is 200kA). Google it.

For the cheaper Class T fuses I can not find a product like this.
 
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I was wondering about that - it did say 'low voltage' but didn't mention DC anywhere.

Having said that, I have to presume that there are DC fusible disconnects for DIN rail out there somewhere. Any recommendations?

"Low Voltage" to industry is < 600VAC :ROFLMAO:

With the compact size of DIN rail components, I haven't seen fuse holder and disconnect in one.
What I do see are multiple switches or breakers ganged in parallel, or interlocked as a transfer switch.
And multiple fuses or breakers with a tiebar so they connect in parallel to a lug for single wire out.

Interrupting DC is more difficult than AC, because the arc continues to flow instead of current dropping to zero every 0.008 seconds.
Many DC breakers are polarized - they have a permanent magnet to deflect arc and help interrupt it, but they only work for current flowing in one direction. Some are DC rated and unpolarized; I think they have a coil of wire to make an electromagnet with its poles in the correct orientation whichever direction current flows.

In PV and battery applications, often bidirectional current is possible. You want current to flow one direction and be interrupted when you turn off the breaker. But if the hardware gets a short circuit, current from battery (or other PV panels in parallel) can dump current in the opposite direction. So I think you have to be careful using polarized breakers, and I don't trust all the configurations recommended by manufacturers.
Using fuses to protect against over-current and a breaker of higher current rating, which you open manually (when current flowing in correct direction) seems like a good solution.

You could use fuses to combine multiple PV strings in parallel, and wire them all to a single circuit breaker of higher amperage rating to serve as a switch. Midnight has fuse holders and both polarized and unpolarized DC breakers.
I would want a 2-pole breaker, so both positive and negative PV wires are disconnected while I work on the system.

The amperage ratings of DIN components should be good for PV, SCC, and AC circuits. Battery to inverter is too high a current, typically 100A to 400A, so not in DIN format.

I have 15A 100VDC DIN breakers in a PV combiner, 60A or so for SCC to battery, 20A 600VDC fuses in another combiner, 63A 240VAC breakers for input/output of my inverters. The rest are Square-D QO breaker panels and fused or unfused knife switches (bigger stuff for a house). Also class-T fuses in holders for battery.
 
Unable to find this document - do you have a link?

Why not for battery or inverter?

It seems as if I am doomed to use the massive marine-style battery switches...

For battery to inverter, one of these massive DC rated non-polarized breakers might be a good fit.
They have an impressive 50k AIC (interrupt) rating, higher than the 20k AIC of a class-T fuse, so good for lithium batteries.


Otherwise, I would consider a class-T fuse and a rotary switch. Just avoid turning switch off under load, always turn inverter off or turn AC loads off so little to no current in the switch.
In my case, my inverters have a breaker built in, and shut-down by menu commands. So the fuse is shut short-circuit protection.
 
Interrupting DC is more difficult than AC, because the arc continues to flow instead of current dropping to zero every 0.008 seconds.
I guess this is why Tesla used to claim DC was more dangerous than AC...
Using fuses to protect against over-current and a breaker of higher current rating, which you open manually (when current flowing in correct direction) seems like a good solution.

I would want a 2-pole breaker, so both positive and negative PV wires are disconnected while I work on the system.
I've seen that recommended, the Nate guy I think.
I have 15A 100VDC DIN breakers in a PV combiner, 60A or so for SCC to battery, 20A 600VDC fuses in another combiner, 63A 240VAC breakers for input/output of my inverters.
So something like this for ? http://www.midnitesolar.com/product...=Breakers&productCat_ID=16&sortOrder=13&act=p

15A for panel > SCC?
60A for SCC > battery?
 
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