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Heating harvested rain water

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fpgt72

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This is a little different from what I have seem to found on here. I want to keep it from freezing and busting the tank. I currently have an IBC container and several barrels. I would like to keep them all from freezing, but not sure that is realistic. I would really like to keep the IBC tank from freezing. If you don't know what that is
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Mine is 275 gal. Keeping the pex from freezing is going to be fairly simple with a heated wrap. But 275 gallons of water, I have never been down this road.

Looking for suggestions or ideas.
 
What temperature ranges / duration do you need to protect against? For me, we hover 25F-40F lows all winter and my 2,500gal tanks (sitting above ground) never freeze. Mild lows compared to -50F Alaska lows make all the difference.

Some thoughts....
Perhaps an enclosed shelter (cheap shed?) will make it harder to freeze and easier to adds some heat than trying to heat the water directly?

Along the enclosed shelter track - perhaps digout with retaining wall (for the tank you show above) and bury the tank?

To a limited degree - stirring the water (less power than heat) will make it harder to freeze.
 
I used to work in a pig farm in Italy in the mountains where it gets well below freezing in the winter. We had a bunch of these, they were 1000 liters, roughly the same size.

The water in these will not freeze easily. I am sure that as long as you put around them some insulation (mineral wool or something cheap like that) the water will not freeze at all.

The really weak part on these is the valve. The valve will freeze easily and the ice when expands will break it. I used to go around a lot of points of the farm where we had valves, faucets and exposed pipe joints before the winter and cover them with a lot of different stuff (old blankets, hay, pieces of rock wool) and the ones that we would not use during the winter i used to close the line and drain the water in them.

If you cover the valve well with mineral wool it will not freeze. And if you put some insulation around them they will not freeze at all.
 
As noted already, this really depends on your location. It takes quite a while to freeze that much water, but we could do it easily here in Maine in some winters. If you're in a very cold climate like ours, the only thing that works is to build a heated shelter around it. And please do be careful with heat tape. They are known to malfunction now and then, and if near flammable surfaces, that's a bad day.
 
Middle MO, so lows usually bottom out MAX -15-ish.

I would have thought it would freeze like water in a lake. Does it have something to do with the sun getting in and warming the water. I am in a never ending battle with the green slime.
 
I can help you with the green slime, it is caused by sunlight. On my IBC's I used for garden irrigation I forced heavy black polythene sheet between the steel cage and the plastic container and covered the top so no sunlight could get in, result, no green slime.
 
fpgt72 said:
Middle MO, so lows usually bottom out MAX -15-ish.

I would have thought it would freeze like water in a lake. Does it have something to do with the sun getting in and warming the water. I am in a never ending battle with the green slime.
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My parents live 20mins from St. Louis and it can get 15-ish for sure but not necessarily for week after week. It would take a month of <20F days with 15Flow <32F hi for a large quantity of water to freeze. I can understand you wondering about this but I'm guessing you don't have too much of an issue - you're climate is only a bit cooler than mine and as mentioned, I don't even get ice in my 2500gal tanks with maybe 10" of water. They are black/green (for algae) and do get some heat from sun.

You're tanks should be painted black/dark to block algae and/or you could wrap them in insulation (R20 or more) and this may do the trick. But you do need to insulate the piping. Maybe bury the thanks (and piping) a foot or 1.5feet in the ground for this or wrap the pipes or use heat tape.

It makes a difference if they are 50% or greater full vs 1 inch of water on the bottom. Not sure you're plans/situation.
 
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Can you give us more detail regarding location and use?
Having the tanks on the north side of a building, depending on climate, might not work well at all. Get some sun on them to provide warmup. Can you put some bleach to retard algae? Our black tank does not have a problem with freezing (or algae) but we get a good amount of sun here.
 
KITROBASKIN said:
Can you give us more detail regarding location and use?
Having the tanks on the north side of a building, depending on climate, might not work well at all. Get some sun on them to provide warmup. Can you put some bleach to retard algae? Our black tank does not have a problem with freezing (or algae) but we get a good amount of sun here.
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I am in Missouri, about midway in the state north south, and close to the KS side of things. Basically about an hour or so from KC.

Currently what I am doing with it is just washing my hands in my shop. I would like to continue to do this. Part B of this is incase we have water issues I will have something on stand by that I can at least use to flush the toilet. Currently I have "other water" for drinking. This is all something that was put up just this year. Plans going forward are to use it for the garden, but when I got this going in July, that ship already sailed.

The odd thing is the temp of the water. We got real close to 100 last week, and the water was quite warm to the touch....almost too warm. I can imagine this winter. An on demand water heater is in my future, but I just worried about that tank. I think I will heat the pex, as well as the valve and let the rest go.

The tank is over 3/4 full, as well as the barrels. They all feed into each other.
 
fourtytwo said:
I can help you with the green slime, it is caused by sunlight. On my IBC's I used for garden irrigation I forced heavy black polythene sheet between the steel cage and the plastic container and covered the top so no sunlight could get in, result, no green slime.
Click to expand...
yeah, he needs to utilize your suggestion or at least spray paint them. Besides the algae issue. These IBC tote liners have zero UV inhibitors. They will become brittle and break into pieces in a year or two with sunlight exposure.
 
OffGridInTheCity said:
My parents live 20mins from St. Louis and it can get 15-ish for sure but not necessarily for week after week. It would take a month of <20F days with 15Flow <32F hi for a large quantity of water to freeze. I can understand you wondering about this but I'm guessing you don't have too much of an issue - you're climate is only a bit cooler than mine and as mentioned, I don't even get ice in my 2500gal tanks with maybe 10" of water. They are black/green (for algae) and do get some heat from sun.

You're tanks should be painted black/dark to block algae and/or you could wrap them in insulation (R20 or more) and this may do the trick. But you do need to insulate the piping. Maybe bury the thanks (and piping) a foot or 1.5feet in the ground for this or wrap the pipes or use heat tape.

It makes a difference if they are 50% or greater full vs 1 inch of water on the bottom. Not sure you're plans/situation
Click to expand...
Our ponds freeze over most winters in mid Missouri. Thick enough to walk on around the shore. 250 gallons will at least partially freeze.
 
fpgt72 said:
I am in Missouri, about midway in the state north south, and close to the KS side of things. Basically about an hour or so from KC.

Currently what I am doing with it is just washing my hands in my shop. I would like to continue to do this. Part B of this is incase we have water issues I will have something on stand by that I can at least use to flush the toilet. Currently I have "other water" for drinking. This is all something that was put up just this year. Plans going forward are to use it for the garden, but when I got this going in July, that ship already sailed.

The odd thing is the temp of the water. We got real close to 100 last week, and the water was quite warm to the touch....almost too warm. I can imagine this winter. An on demand water heater is in my future, but I just worried about that tank. I think I will heat the pex, as well as the valve and let the rest go.

The tank is over 3/4 full, as well as the barrels. They all feed into each other.
Click to expand...
You must be way west of Carrollton. If you’re north of there too that’s some beautiful country. A bit remote with the occasional Casey’s or Dollar General popping up in random pastures, but very pretty.
 
IBC totes have plastic tanks that are not meant to last. If you intend to have a long term rain gathering system I would suggest getting water tanks built for storage purposes. In mine I buried them down to the tops in the ground to prevent freezing. They are painted gloss white on the exposed tops to reflect the sun as heating in the Summer is more of an issue. Here in NW AR the climate should not be that different than you have in MO. My 4500gals of rain water storage have provide my potable water needs for 22+ years now.
 
"Currently what I am doing with it is just washing my hands in my shop."

I've been heating water for a long time with PV and have used those 2.5 & 4 gallon point of use tanks. They take very little solar to heat up. Having some warm water to wash up with is so nice. I have purchased several from liquidators which have been new open box from the big box stores. I've always paid less than $50 shipped for them. If you are patient they show up every couple months.
 
efficientPV said:
"Currently what I am doing with it is just washing my hands in my shop."

I've been heating water for a long time with PV and have used those 2.5 & 4 gallon point of use tanks. They take very little solar to heat up. Having some warm water to wash up with is so nice. I have purchased several from liquidators which have been new open box from the big box stores. I've always paid less than $50 shipped for them. If you are patient they show up every couple months.
Click to expand...

I have been in the shop for years, when I put the sink in this summer I thought I died and gone to heaven. I never knew how nice it is to wash your hands.....it is fantastic.

So many people say it will not freeze, but like the other person said, it can get cold enough to walk on a lake....I have driven gokarts on frozen lakes before. I just don't see how it will not freeze. Plus it is sitting elevated a little on that stand so the fork truck can get under it, this means the cold will as well. I was thinking about a stock tank heater, I had that in the past when I had animals, but that was on the ground and I am not sure how much power it really ate. It did not matter for that, it had to be done. I was thinking about that and a wrap for the pex and valve, but just don't know for sure.
 
I have an IBC tank so I a familiar with the construction. Never have used it. There is thin foam insulation, usually folded up, that can be cut to fill the squares. Then cover that with corrugated fiberglass to protect it from sun. Keeping wind off goes a long way. Hang some solar panels to cover it. Vertical panels work well in the winter. They won't get covered by snow when it is needed most. I have a camp which is abandoned for the winter and researched PEX tubing is very tolerant of freezing.

Instead of heat tape, consider one of these. At lower voltage it would work well https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...1929250!sh!US!3240326073&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Someone a while ago was looking for some way to add heat to a pipe so I thought I would post this.
 
fpgt72 said:
So many people say it will not freeze, but like the other person said, it can get cold enough to walk on a lake....I have driven gokarts on frozen lakes before. I just don't see how it will not freeze.
Click to expand...
When I get into "I don't know...", then I try to remind myself to avoid overdoing things / keep it simple and do an experiment and see what happens for myself. Maybe see if neighbors have solved a similar issue via Nextdoor or Facebook? In any case - DIY doesn't mean you get it exactly right the 1st time and that's OK! :)
 
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Get a sinking stock tank heater and some heat tape for the pex and insulate it as best you can. Nice part about both is there is no external wiring, plug it in and go.
 
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