HELP!! My electricals went HAYWIRE yesterday and no clue what I did or how to troubleshoot

[Gueyog8a7]

I am so at a loss I have no idea what to look up online to try and diagnose the issue.

So I was just doing what I thought was some routine tidying up, just reconnecting a light which came unplugged at the plastic screw terminals and adding a couple of blade terminals to connections which I had previously soldered. Little bits and pieces. I thought this would only take an hour or two and done but the whole system went bonkers when I turned it back on.

So to the problems...

I had disconnected 3 rocker switches, two lights and a fan, in order to fix them to a control panel as well as adding blade terminals mentioned above. When I plugged them back in and switched the battery switch back on what should have been the off position was now on and vice versa. Of course I double and triple checked I didn't make a mistake and wire them wrong and they were connected right. I also checked with voltmeter and + and - on the wires were still as expected.

Now here is the freakiest part and what caused me to not trust any of it then, resorting to manually disconnecting the positive at the battery itself until I get more information. The weirdest thing...the battery cutoff switch would no longer cut the power when I switched it until...I switched off the light switch which was in the on position. How on earth could that be occurring!!!?? So the whole system would stay live with the battery switch ignoring the switch command until I switched off the rocker switch for the light which was on into the off position at which point power was then cut to the system.

I fiddled around some more with the lights and then somehow that above behaviour stopped happening and the battery switch would switch off again however there is still the problem that off is on and on is off for the lights which I guess is indicative of all the issues including the battery switch issue although I have no idea how at this stage.

So can anyone please let me know what might have happened. I can't think of anything out of the ordinary when I was working on the system.

I will note I had not turned off the solar isolator switch, which I have not done many times before with no issues, but is that necessary when turning off the battery switch to cut power to the whole system?

I am totally stumped so all advice welcome. As I said I didn't have the slightest idea what I could look up online to even begin to troubleshoot the issue so was no better off even with the internet at my fingertips.

 

[rhino]

The weirdest thing...the battery cutoff switch would no longer cut the power when I switched it until.

What exactly are you using for a battery switch? What voltage is the battery? Initial guess is you are using a switch not rated for the DC voltage of your system.

 

[Checkthisout]

You hooked it up to the illumination terminals of the rocker switch(s).

Let's see some pictures.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

What exactly are you using for a battery switch? What voltage is the battery? Initial guess is you are using a switch not rated for the DC voltage of your system.

Why when it and the rest of the system (which is 12v) has worked for a month or more no issue. Doesn't make sense. Also doesn't explain why the on and off on all the rocker switches inverted.

I bought this switch as recommended by the knowlegeable @mikefitz, so no doubts the switch is fine.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

You hooked it up to the illumination terminals of the rocker switch(s).

Let's see some pictures.

No, I did nothing to alter the battery switch wires when working yesterday. I did not touch that so not about hooking it up to anything. This behaviour happened out of the blue after working with the rockers. I was only connecting the terminal cables to the rocker switches themselves. I wasn't even working on the fuse box side of them, only the rocker switch terminals far away from the fuse box or indeed the battery switch wires.

I will note though that a couple of the wires that go into the blade fuse box are jammed up against the main wire to the load wire from the battery to battery switch. Like it is really tight and they are all crammed together. The wires are all brand new though so it wouldn't be exposed wires but could the charge jump through them somehow even if insulated? Seems unlikely as I thought they are meant to be fine even if bunched together due to the insulation. Or can they conduct current even through insulated wires? That seems to undermine the idea of insulation. Definitely not any metal to metal exposure down there I am 99% confident of that as while the insulated wires may be overlapping in some small places with the main battery wire to the battery switch the terminal connections to the fuse box are not.

Pictures not easy. Internet intermittent. No charged camera device. Also the electricals are down a tiny slit behind my bed which is a nightmare to get to.

 

[rodrick]

The main battery switch is a good quality so I don’t think it’s a problem you must have something else hooked up to the battery positive terminal bypassing the switch

 

[kommando]

You best post some pics, its bad enough as a brit trying to order a breakfast in the US without adding DC smoke into the mix.

 

[Mattb4]

If a light switch being on causes your main disconnect (battery cutoff) to not function for cutoff you have a bad connection somewhere allowing bypass of your main. No if, buts or ands.

From your description of packed wiring, "I will note though that a couple of the wires that go into the blade fuse box are jammed up against the main wire to the load wire from the battery to battery switch. Like it is really tight and they are all crammed together." it would appear that here is the likely location. Wires insulation would normally prevent it but wire insulation can be nicked or a connection might have a few free strands.

 

[Checkthisout]

No, I did nothing to alter the battery switch wires when working yesterday. I did not touch that so not about hooking it up to anything. This behaviour happened out of the blue after working with the rockers. I was only connecting the terminal cables to the rocker switches themselves. I wasn't even working on the fuse box side of them, only the rocker switch terminals far away from the fuse box or indeed the battery switch wires.

Read my post again. I said you hooked the ROCKER switch leads up to the switch illumination pins on the ROCKER switch(s) rather than the switched posts.

I will note though that a couple of the wires that go into the blade fuse box are jammed up against the main wire to the load wire from the battery to battery switch. Like it is really tight and they are all crammed together. The wires are all brand new though so it wouldn't be exposed wires but could the charge jump through them somehow even if insulated? Seems unlikely as I thought they are meant to be fine even if bunched together due to the insulation. Or can they conduct current even through insulated wires? That seems to undermine the idea of insulation. Definitely not any metal to metal exposure down there I am 99% confident of that as while the insulated wires may be overlapping in some small places with the main battery wire to the battery switch the terminal connections to the fuse box

You have convinced yourself its voodoo magic and that you're going to think your way out of it rather than just pulling stuff back apart and making sure its wired properly.

Like with the condensation issue, you're trying to avoid doing work. Get in there and get dirty kiddo.?

Pictures not easy. Internet intermittent. No charged camera device. Also the electricals are down a tiny slit behind my bed which is a nightmare to get to.

All things you'll want to correct immediately.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Recheck everything and DO NOT ASSUME.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

Read my post again. I said you hooked the ROCKER switch leads up to the switch illumination pins on the ROCKER switch(s) rather than the switched posts.




You have convinced yourself its voodoo magic and that you're going to think your way out of it rather than just pulling stuff back apart and making sure its wired properly.

Like with the condensation issue, you're trying to avoid doing work. Get in there and get dirty kiddo.?



All things you'll want to correct immediately.

No idea what switch illumination pins are.

There is a positive and negative male blade terminal on the switches and positive and negative wires with respective female blade terminals which I plug to the positive and negative males. I read your first post just fine just have no idea what you mean by switch illumination pins.

I have checked everything again and there is no incorrect wiring I could ascertain. I also took out all fuses from the fuse box one by one to see if there was an issue with a specific connection and all behave in the same way.

Also I retract what I said about wires touching. When I looked again there is more room than I thought and the cable for battery switch and fuse boxes wires are not overlapping.

I wired things back together again and touch wood I have not noticed the battery switch issue again. I do still have the other appliance switches reversed issue though but they otherwise are functioning normally. What I have done is just flipped them upside down from how they were on the control panel. As they are symmetrical this does not alter anything aesthetically.

What seems to have happened somehow, as yet unexplained, is something like when you have two light switches for a single switch which is common in bedrooms where there is a switch at the door and one at the bed to turn off without having to get up. When you switch one the on off is then reversed with the other.

Still doesn't explain the made battery switch behaviour though. I am adamant there is no connection wrong though. Also I was running fine for a month or so no issues why suddenly now when I didn't even touch the battery connection cable in question? Of course the dogmatists will say it is impossible and I have missed it rather than be open to the idea there may be an unexplained phenomena that lays outside their purview.

Pictures will not help here. All you will see are a jumble of wires. I certainly do not profess to have made things in a neat way but I do claim there are no faulty connections having double and triple checked yesterday.

So I now put it down to some sort of supernatural force which perhaps temporarily took control of the system.

 

[Checkthisout]

No idea what switch illumination pins are.

There is a positive and negative male blade terminal on the switches and positive and negative wires with respective female blade terminals which I plug to the positive and negative males. I read your first post just fine just have no idea what you mean by switch illumination pins.

I have checked everything again and there is no incorrect wiring I could ascertain. I also took out all fuses from the fuse box one by one to see if there was an issue with a specific connection and all behave in the same way.

Also I retract what I said about wires touching. When I looked again there is more room than I thought and the cable for battery switch and fuse boxes wires are not overlapping.

I wired things back together again and touch wood I have not noticed the battery switch issue again. I do still have the other appliance switches reversed issue though but they otherwise are functioning normally. What I have done is just flipped them upside down from how they were on the control panel. As they are symmetrical this does not alter anything aesthetically.

What seems to have happened somehow, as yet unexplained, is something like when you have two light switches for a single switch which is common in bedrooms where there is a switch at the door and one at the bed to turn off without having to get up. When you switch one the on off is then reversed with the other.

Still doesn't explain the made battery switch behaviour though. I am adamant there is no connection wrong though. Also I was running fine for a month or so no issues why suddenly now when I didn't even touch the battery connection cable in question? Of course the dogmatists will say it is impossible and I have missed it rather than be open to the idea there may be an unexplained phenomena that lays outside their purview.

Pictures will not help here. All you will see are a jumble of wires. I certainly do not profess to have made things in a neat way but I do claim there are no faulty connections having double and triple checked yesterday.

So I now put it down to some sort of supernatural force which perhaps temporarily took control of the system.

You have switches that also switch the negative but the switch does not have an indicator light? Why does the negative go to the switch?

DPDT or DPST?

 

[Mattb4]

...

So I now put it down to some sort of supernatural force which perhaps temporarily took control of the system.

This is a bad idea. There are no supernatural forces. There is simply the physics of electricity involved here. In order for current to flow you need a conductor and a difference of potential. Your battery cutoff works by interrupting the conductor path. For electricity to flow around it a new conducting path had to be made.

Your switches are the same idea. If they are not working as you expect it is because they are not wired properly or they are faulty.

Why is this important? Miss-wiring things, or equipment faults, that allow current to flow also allow excess current that can lead to equipment damage and fires.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

You have switches that also switch the negative but the switch does not have an indicator light? Why does the negative go to the switch?

DPDT or DPST?

Ok my mistake in explaining as we usually talk of positive and negative I forgot switches are both positive. I meant one + for load one + for supply.

I just have these.

 

[HarryN]

Any chance that the BMS has tripped due to it being cold out?

 

[Gueyog8a7]

In order for current to flow you need a conductor and a difference of potential. Your battery cutoff works by interrupting the conductor path. For electricity to flow around it a new conducting path had to be made.

Ok this is the best way I saw it explained so far. Makes more sense but still no idea how it could have happened. The battery switch I linked has huge spacing and large chunk of plastic between. I also took off the cover and didn't see anything wrong there.

How could you explain the light switches controlling the on/off of the battery switch. What possible scenarios can you think of given that I have double and triple checked and the wiring looks fine. Also remember it had worked fine for 1 month or more before this. I just am unable to get my head around it. I will be the first to admit user error in my wiring if that was the case but I checked and checked again and do not see any and again why would it suddenly happen after a month if it was that.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

Any chance that the BMS has tripped due to it being cold out?

Certainly could have but would that explain what happened? It has been around 0c lately. If so how would that explain this behaviour?

 

[Checkthisout]

Ok this is the best way I saw it explained so far. Makes more sense but still no idea how it could have happened. The battery switch I linked has huge spacing and large chunk of plastic between. I also took off the cover and didn't see anything wrong there.

How could you explain the light switches controlling the on/off of the battery switch. What possible scenarios can you think of given that I have double and triple checked and the wiring looks fine. Also remember it had worked fine for 1 month or more before this. I just am unable to get my head around it. I will be the first to admit user error in my wiring if that was the case but I checked and checked again and do not see any and again why would it suddenly happen after a month if it was that.

Something is backfeeding. You have it wired wrong.

Simple as that.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

Something is backfeeding. You have it wired wrong.

Simple as that.

How do I go about troubleshooting that?

Also explain backfeeding and the possible event of how it has caused my issues as it is the first time I read about this.

 

[Checkthisout]

How do I go about troubleshooting that?

Checking for positive power on the switched side of the switch.