diy solar

diy solar

High end, brand name LiFePO4 batteries - local pickup PNW only

It is impossible to get DIY information out of Edurenergy about their battery, and what they do provide is incorrect. They tell me to talk with the installer. So I left reviews saying the battery seems great, but is not DIY. Then they get upset at the review.

Fortress Power is similar. Give the specs and be open about it, or limit yourself to installer only for customers who never look at the system.
 
This is about expectation, design and every product has pluses and minuses. This is not the OP fault, they thought someone who makes their living by selling would provide the design that met the needs. It's never that way, they ( sales ) live and die by tuning over inventory, nothing else.
I concur, every product has pluses and minuses. You're right, it's not her fault. Sales agents are frequently clueless at best and scum at worst. The nature of the job itself can tend to attract some of the worst of us.
If a product is used in a manner that is not optimal, such as 10, 5 kwh batteries, each with its own bms, that isn't an optimal configuration. If one looks at what is done in the HV battery market, you can stack up to 32 kwh into a single BMS ( BYD Batterybox HVL ) Pylontech and others have similar configurations. Is the Fortress the best available choice I don't know, but not being the best doesn't mean it is broken and throw it out or sell for a loss.
In a SHTF type situation, having multiple points of failure (10 batteries) might be better than one big high voltage battery. At the very least, with one large battery, she would need to have back up parts on hand and know how to swap them without internet assistance. A large battery can certainly have advantages over a smaller battery, if designed well it wouldn't need to waste as much power, but it can be a challenge to extract maximum output from a single large battery due to cable sizing restraints and cost considerations unless the voltage is increased to potentially deadly levels.
The reason there are trades, such as Electrical, Plumbing, HVAC and many others is there is a knowledge set needed to provide expertise and optimal solutions. The idea that anyone can build a power plant seems to leave out before your spend 10's of thousands of your hard earned dollars that you need to be an expert yourself, or things many not turn out well.
Sure, that's one reason why "trades" are around. Another is because they have regulatory captured themselves into having a potentially unnecessary barrier to entry that prevents any sort of fair competition. There are many situations where a certified professional with years of experience isn't really necessary, a simple tutorial would suffice, and the only reason the experts are used is because of laws requiring them to be used. Not every situation requires an "expert", if that's what we want to call the average tradesman. The ones I've encountered on here are pretty smart, and I respect their opinion, but I've met some pretty questionable ones out and about.

While a home based solar system is technically a "power plant", it's of nowhere near the complexity of an actual industrial "power plant" and calling it one is kind of silly. As it scales up, and gets into dangerous voltages it certainly needs to be treated with respect, and fire is always a possibility, but people are allowed to work on their own cars, operate powered wood saws at home, weld at home, climb on and fix their own roofs, and countless other activities that are equally dangerous to themselves and their community. Many of those activities don't have any real licensing or regulation around them either.
Sales has been and will always be a race to the bottom, they should NEVER be relied on for designing, say it again Never.
No argument from me on that.
So the path with the least cost is keep what you have and adjust to make it as good as it can be, in this case, keep most of it in storage and rotate as the capacity is mismatched to the need.
That has been suggested to her many times. Theoretically, according to the Fortress guy, they can handle voltage variations of up to 2vdc upon connection to another Fortress battery. That's one of the reasons they command such a high price of double what a similarly sized competitor battery would cost. It should be relatively easy, if that's really the case, to turn batteries on and off as needed. The only potential problem is likely in the Sol-Arks as they probably expect some consistency in the AH size of the battery array and might not appreciate batteries coming in and out. Also, while cost is a concern of hers, I think she also wants a certain level of efficiency while not having to babysit them all day long. Lower idle consumption batteries would require less babysitting, but would certainly cost her more money at this point.
Finally, I've been in and out of this industry for over 20 years, it is constant flux of new vendors, little to no testing and stranded customer's. Until there are standards of required performance, it will never changes and the manufacture's seem to be destin to repeat the sames mistakes. My personal view is the mobile market set the bar ( customer is the tester ) and that doesn't work well for quality of hardware.
Unfortunately it's not just this industry, as you are obviously aware. There are pluses and minuses to our economic systems, quality is often a casualty of it as it's weighed against cost of failure/litigation.
 
You would probably be better off from a cost standpoint if you were able to take that Fortress offer of swapping them out for those larger batteries of theirs, even with them being "refurbs" or whatever. Fortress didn't give us any actual idle consumption specs on them, but if they are really the same consumption rate as each smaller battery, but nearly 3 times as large capacity wise, that would help quite a bit with your idle consumption.

That sounds like the better way to go, even paying for some shipping, vs taking a 50% + price bath on recently purchased batteries.
They stopped communicating with me weeks ago around the time they told me their customer service manager's response to my questions was not good. Mr Cromer said he would contact me to figure out the SOC recalibration issue that had surfaced during our test. I never heard from anyone from that company again which is when I literally blew my damn top and suggested a contest to rebuild these batteries. The last communication from Mr. Cromer included the CEO's email. I finally sent a message out to her explaining the series of events that had occurred. I ended my message saying, "If I were to recommend two things to you, I would suggest that you have John Cromer not continue his social media involvement. He's not doing you favors. I would also highly recommend that you have your employees identify their positions so that customers know who it is they're dealing with. And I'll throw in a third, and probably, most important suggestion: disclose your true efficiency numbers so you don't have more angry customers like me. This whole thing could have been avoided." I did say they either take the batteries back or I would be forced to sell them on public forums but would also be disclosing exactly why which I have done.

I heard nothing back. I wasn't really surprised with all that has occurred in the last month. I wasn't excited to take a refurbed product from a company who clearly wasn't willing to answer basic questions or provide support. I didn't start off this mad. It was a long road getting to this point. Really, we all lose in this scenario. I feel bad for Mr. Honey who was the original person who finally gave me some data at all on what their consumption would be. And, again, it would have been smarter for him to clarify that number rather than doing the math for me showing the system would literally eat nearly all of my production three months out of the year.

Do I wish I'd purchased the eVault? No. Honestly, I more than likely would have had similar customer service issues and, without any way to monitor what's happening with the batteries what would I have done when a BMS warning light came on but I had no info to look at? Their new Guardian Monitor requires WiFi connectivity. If SHTF, that's not going to be a thing. And, with my EMF sensitivity, I'm not able to work around it anyway. I get heart palpitations and dizziness from it. So... Here we are.

I could put a bow on these and make them sound fantastic. It's certainly in my best interest to do so. But I can't live with that. The world we're falling into is happening because we're all allowing it to happen. We all want justice, fair trade, our rights and our freedoms but no one wants to do the hard work to maintain them.
 
Mr Cromer said he would contact me to figure out the SOC recalibration issue that had surfaced during our test. I never heard from anyone from that company again which is when I literally blew my damn top and suggested a contest to rebuild these batteries.

Just an FYI, John Cromer is now the Senior Technical Manager at Sol-Ark.

I actually had a long conversation with him just before Christmas unrelated to this topic / product and we have common contacts in the industry, my impression he is one of the good guys and gets it as it comes to what is necessary to make a quality product.

I've never owned or considered a Fortress product as my current interests and experiences are with high voltage ESS ( my system is 400V )
 
Sure, that's one reason why "trades" are around. Another is because they have regulatory captured themselves into having a potentially unnecessary barrier to entry that prevents any sort of fair competition. There are many situations where a certified professional with years of experience isn't really necessary, a simple tutorial would suffice, and the only reason the experts are used is because of laws requiring them to be used. Not every situation requires an "expert", if that's what we want to call the average tradesman. The ones I've encountered on here are pretty smart, and I respect their opinion, but I've met some pretty questionable ones out and about.

While a home based solar system is technically a "power plant", it's of nowhere near the complexity of an actual industrial "power plant" and calling it one is kind of silly. As it scales up, and gets into dangerous voltages it certainly needs to be treated with respect, and fire is always a possibility, but people are allowed to work on their own cars, operate powered wood saws at home, weld at home, climb on and fix their own roofs, and countless other activities that are equally dangerous to themselves and their community. Many of those activities don't have any real licensing or regulation around them either.

My experience is in all careers there are good and bad, as it relates to trades, they know the codes, costs, best practices that your DYI may have a strong desire but does have any of the skills to do the task.

I've worked in many domains, professional as an engineer for decades and in trades in a wide variety of skills aka "Jack of all trades, master of none" and just finishing up a decade as a faculty. Once I master something I tend to lose interest and find something new to do with my time. I see many are quick to judge the worth of others skills or the value placed on there knowledge without knowing just how much time is involved to be skilled in a new domain.

While I agree that to those that know both industrial and consumer environments would find my calling home ESS power plants "silly", to the other 99% of the population it drives an important point home: This isn't simple, it can be dangerous, it's not like we are born and know how to be safe with electrical systems and if you manage to get something wired up, you have a high probability of being conned into buying parts that are not what your use-case would need.

My intro to solar was a gridtie product that didn't work as the company claimed 23 years ago, so I know all about how the sausage is made and I am beyond disappointed that here we are all these years later and the same mistakes are being made. My last system, guess what, it was 2003 all over-again and to the OP, you and NOT alone. The only difference now is I'm not going public like I did in 2002 and I work behind the scene to try and improve the quality of products.
 
This is about expectation, design and every product has pluses and minuses. This is not the OP fault, they thought someone who makes their living by selling would provide the design that met the needs. It's never that way, they ( sales ) live and die by tuning over inventory, nothing else.

If a product is used in a manner that is not optimal, such as 10, 5 kwh batteries, each with its own bms, that isn't an optimal configuration. If one looks at what is done in the HV battery market, you can stack up to 32 kwh into a single BMS ( BYD Batterybox HVL ) Pylontech and others have similar configurations. Is the Fortress the best available choice I don't know, but not being the best doesn't mean it is broken and throw it out or sell for a loss.

The reason there are trades, such as Electrical, Plumbing, HVAC and many others is there is a knowledge set needed to provide expertise and optimal solutions. The idea that anyone can build a power plant seems to leave out before your spend 10's of thousands of your hard earned dollars that you need to be an expert yourself, or things many not turn out well.

Sales has been and will always be a race to the bottom, they should NEVER be relied on for designing, say it again Never.

So the path with the least cost is keep what you have and adjust to make it as good as it can be, in this case, keep most of it in storage and rotate as the capacity is mismatched to the need.

Finally, I've been in and out of this industry for over 20 years, it is constant flux of new vendors, little to no testing and stranded customer's. Until there are standards of required performance, it will never changes and the manufacture's seem to be destin to repeat the sames mistakes. My personal view is the mobile market set the bar ( customer is the tester ) and that doesn't work well for quality of hardware.
I know you're trying to help. And I do appreciate the attempts. There are a lot of issues I can see in toggling batteries in and out, especially in a SHTF scenario. The system itself has requirements that make this management style problematic. Each Sol-Ark requires 3 of the eFlex. That's the spec I've been given by NAZ and Fortress. It's in the warranty manual. In order for me to bring in all of my PV, I need the 2nd Sol-Ark on. In talking to Sol-Ark, they were not all that excited to have me turning on and off my slave. I've done it and know how and can definitely toggle that off and on as my loads certainly don't warrant that equipment in the winter after production. But the batteries are harder to deal with. MurphyGuy has been hounding me to figure out how to manage them instead of selling them. If I have to have 6 on to bring in all of the PV, the best I can do is to toggle off 4 of them. And this only gets me so far. To most people in other areas of the country, especially if they don't see the world going down the drain, they can easily compensate with more panels, their generators or their grid tie and they don't feel the pain. Here, I need a structure 40 feet long to get 20 panels on stacked two high with a pretty good roof space (so pretty wide as well). If I use 405 watt panels, that earns me 8 kWh in December. It literally just covers the system's parasitic load and still leaves me very little power to work with. The majority of my parasitic load are definitely the batteries based on all of my calculations. (and Fortress's own calculations that they've provided me). With the improved efficiency of a MOSFET, I might be able to scrape by with the very limited things I feel I need. Either way, I'm prepared to manage my loads accordingly.

My spring, summer and fall I do really pretty well. Today we had some ugly weather but we had an awesome sunbreak and I watched my PV hit 32.7 bringing my batteries back to full while powering all my shop loads (about 9 kWh in loads). If we were in a SHTF, I would have been happily pushing power back into my house for a shower and a load of laundry. It would have been nice to have been able to use all of my uptake so I could see my actual production today. But this is what's hard with a system design like this. It's intended to be my protection if the SHTF in an area that has extreme overcast especially in the winter. The arrays I can fit and that make sense provide more power than I can consume some months of the year. But winters are never going to be good. Maybe different inverters would have helped as well but, as I can power those off when not in use, I can't do that with the batteries. My lowest consumption number is at idle powering nothing and 6 batteries left like this for 24 hours will chew through 1.7 kWh each day. But that's at idle. I do have consumption needs. With consumption, that number raises to 2.3kWh. And I have to have power coming in to recharge this system. I believe (and correct me if I'm mistaken) that's when I have the 30 watt level hit which is the real killer.

I'm in a tight spot from a number of angles. My choices are being made with very specific goals that @cs1234 has been spot on in discussing. He's a very good listener and a good soul. This issue was beat to death on the other thread so this is the last post I'm making about it. I'm sorry if I came across as abrupt about this earlier. It's been a very long journey and I'm pretty darn tired.
 
Located in the NW as well.

Not many here understand the affects of our lattitude and rain on solar production, combine that with short winter days and you're done.

If it's raining, my 2430 watt array out on the coast produces .2 KWH during the winter.

This is at an intermittent use cabin and the draw is about 1.5KWH daily to keep the cameras and internet etc going when im not there. This necessitates a generator. If I was there full time, batteries with a 60 watt draw would eat every bit of winter solar. An AIO with a 90 watt draw???? Seriously, forget about it.

Even if I upped my array to 20Kw, I would still only get 2Kwh for the day during short, rainy winter days.

Those telling you to get more solar to compensate for huge parasitic losses just don't understand.
 
Located in the NW as well.

Not many here understand the affects of our lattitude and rain on solar production, combine that with short winter days and you're done.

If it's raining, my 2430 watt array out on the coast produces .2 KWH during the winter.

This is at an intermittent use cabin and the draw is about 1.5KWH daily to keep the cameras and internet etc going when im not there. This necessitates a generator. If I was there full time, batteries with a 60 watt draw would eat every bit of winter solar. An AIO with a 90 watt draw???? Seriously, forget about it.

Even if I upped my array to 20Kw, I would still only get 2Kwh for the day during short, rainy winter days.

Those telling you to get more solar to compensate for huge parasitic losses just don't understand.
Thanks for sharing that. I saw really low days like you're describing though not THAT bad. I think my worst day was still 2 kWh but my data was recently wiped by a factory reset so I can't go back and look, sadly. I had many fairly good days too but can definitely never get over the parasitic load of the equipment that I have that time of the year without getting very creative and being willing to live like I'm on a very long camping trip. It is what it is. I prepared for the camping trip but still need clean running water at least twice a day. Lots of suggestions for wind turbines have been made but I live in a bit of a valley so the tower would have to be pretty monstrous.
 
Thanks for sharing that. I saw really low days like you're describing though not THAT bad. I think my worst day was still 2 kWh but my data was recently wiped by a factory reset so I can't go back and look, sadly. I had many fairly good days too but can definitely never get over the parasitic load of the equipment that I have that time of the year without getting very creative and being willing to live like I'm on a very long camping trip. It is what it is. I prepared for the camping trip but still need clean running water at least twice a day. Lots of suggestions for wind turbines have been made but I live in a bit of a valley so the tower would have to be pretty monstrous.

Fried has a grid-tied system north of you. 10Kw, panels placed every which way.

Winter output is like .9-2Kwh out of that array.
 
We definitely fare better than that. I wish I had good data to share especially from that timeframe. I had been keeping track daily but was told my SOC numbers weren't accurate because of a communication error and so the spreadsheet I'd been documenting things on was wiped clean too because I thought my data was bad. smh I could have at least used my production numbers! (Kicking self in butt)
 
We definitely fare better than that. I wish I had good data to share especially from that timeframe. I had been keeping track daily but was told my SOC numbers weren't accurate because of a communication error and so the spreadsheet I'd been documenting things on was wiped clean too because I thought my data was bad. smh I could have at least used my production numbers! (Kicking self in butt)

Trees
 
Ahhhhh! Damn trees! Thankfully, we have no issues with those. That's the only problem I think I can check off my list today!
 
Rush is awesome, for all ages!
True statement. I don't know how I missed this song as I was a Rush fan in my youth. Looks like it's from 1978. I used to buy albums and play them over and over and over again until I had the lyrics down for every song. Rush was on that list.
 
I can barely remember what I had for breakfast, so forgetting an amazing Rush song from 1978 doesn't seem entirely unforgivable.
 
One of my favorite songs. Never saw them play it live but it I did manage to catch them the on the "Moving Pictures" and "Signals" tours. Don't judge, lol, I was in Jr. high and liked to hang out with high schoolers who had cars to get me to concerts. They liked me because I could drive them back from the concerts if you know what I mean.
 
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