Hybrid inverters not really hybrid at all?

[Fingers]

A bit of information I have just spotted on youtube

apparently the Chinese regard hybrid, to mean off grid in a black out for about 30 minutes to an hour, and any prolonged "off the grid" time ie days will burn out a hybrid inverter. I really need to know if this is the case.

As Growatt hybrid inverters cost twice the amount as their off grid inverters, I would be stupid to buy one if it's just going to leave us in the dark when the mains gets turned off.
What's the alternative to hybrid?



For those of you who don't know..... France supplies Britain with 50% of our electricity. Southern England being closest to France, will be affected if there's a switch off.
France has a problem with it's electricity supply; it's gas powered stations can't cope and the nuke stations have been turned off due to decay because of a lack of investment.
Macron want's to build new nuke stations but this will take years, and he is now talking about turning off the supply to the UK.
Ok, if this happens the national grid will no doubt pump up the grid to supply as much as they can, but Devon and Cornwall watch out.
Coal stations will not happen over night, even if they did, it's been so long since the pits were working there are no miners anymore, all gone into different jobs and retired.

 

[newbostonconst]

Never believe the Chinese....Junk....Get what you pay for comes to mind....

I have a hybrid Outback GS4048 that has run my house on the invertor continuously for the last year.
A friend runs the Outback GS8048 continuously for the last 4 years.

Just for reference.

 

[blackstar]

I do not have experience of chinese inverters. I've evaluated but they did not fit my idea of inverter. Personal view.
Anyway to guarantee the capability of long time operation it is preferable to use inverter built for that kind of operation like inverter commonly used on boats. On a boat you have power from the dock, maybe limited, that in an energy crisis may be the same of a limited power availability on grid (modern meters can limit power provided). When you are not on the dock you need to operate in full off-grid with solar panels and maybe with a generator.
I think that to be sure to be able to have power in case of grid outage you need that kind of inverter.
Grid tied inverter are not good for that situation because they will shut down if grid shuts down, even if you have full power from solar panels.

P.S. You need a "grid forming" inverter.

 

[Ampster]

What's the alternative to hybrid?

The alternative is to buy a quality inverter based on its features. Hybrid is a term that could easily get "lost in translation". I have an Outback Skybox which was designed to be grid interactive. I looked at the features and purchased it to give me the ability to be in Self Consumption mode and use the grid as backup. It has served me well when the grid is occasionally down. Sometimes the grid has been down for a few days and I have had no issues. While not a feature, UL listing is probably the best guaranty that an inverter will perform as designed.
The headline is a teaser headline, A more correct topic might be, "Not all hybrids have the same functionality and features"?

 

[RV10flyer]

My two Chinese Sol-Ark 12K hybrids have been powering my all electric home since Mar 4, 2022, producing 40-125 kWh/day. Not one glitch. Grid turned off at meter by power co. No electric bills, added taxes, padding fat execs pockets.

 

[Ampster]

P.S. You need a "grid forming" inverter.

That is an important feature set that allow a well designed hybrid to AC couple with a GT inverter to leverage your investment. A well designed system of a GT inverter and a hybrid capable of AC coupling can be a cost effective solution to the need for ways to support load during high rate TOU periods and provide back up capability.

 

[Ampster]

Never believe the Chinese.

I have had good luck believing some Chinese vendors. i agree a good sense of skepticisms is is important to separate the good from the bad, but that is true with everything in life. It all depends on where you are standing.

 

[RCinFLA]

Many Chinese HF hybrid inverters cannot switch between supplying AC output from battery and charging battery from AC input source quickly.

They refer to a 'grid tied' or 'off grid' version of inverter as a configuration that restricts how they configure battery to AC output or allow AC input to charge battery when AC input is present.

The restriction is how they allow the HV DC to battery path to be used. Either to charge battery or supply AC output. PV goes to HV DC so the decision also effects whether PV power goes to charging battery or supplementing AC output.

 

[Fingers]

The alternative is to buy a quality inverter based on its features.

Well those people who had their systems burn out no doubt thought they did have quality.

The problem is every Hybrid inverter says much the same thing. Charge batteries from grid or solar, use batteries to power your home, back up with solar or grid or both, export to grid.
I have learned that hybrid is hybrid, and off grid is not hybrid, even if it does have a mains connection and a picture of a national grid tower in the manual. Not surprising this confuses new comers.

Would you say Growatt SPH4000TL BL-UP was good quality? This is what I was thinking of buying before I saw the youtube video.

 

[Ampster]

Would you say Growatt SPH4000TL BL-UP was good quality?

I do not have any experiencer with any Growatt products. I don't even know if it is UL listed? I have been using Outback products for seven years.

The problem is every Hybrid inverter says much the same thing.

My point was one has to not only read the specs but do some searches and find user feedback as well as understand how the features work. It is still a world in which Caveat Emptor applies but the ability to make informed decisions is enhanced by the Internet. It is not enough to just believe that something is quality. That is where forums like this can help inform users.

 

[Larry Oswald]

That video triggered all this chatter? The Aussie is saying that you cannot run 5KW of load off a 2KW source.

 

[Fingers]

The Aussie is saying that you cannot run 5KW of load off a 2KW source.

Oh, is that all he was saying? I heard him say Chinese inverters were not intended to be used of grid any longer than an hour.
This chatter is about me getting a system that will work off grid without it breaking down. Bullet proof is what I want, I think I'm going to have to use my SMA grid tie and battery inverter for on grid, and just use an off grid inverter when it hits the fan.

 

[Ampster]

The Aussie is saying that you cannot run 5KW of load off a 2KW source.

Yes, as I said earlier, understanding the fundamental specs is important. In the above scenerio, somewhere deep in the specs would be something that says what the inverter capacity is. Even thought the product may call itself a 5k inverter, presumably the 5k may be a reference to the power that can pass through from the grid and is added to what the internal inverter can provide. This "marketing" language is not limited the the Chinese. I have had an issue with the terminology that SolArk uses to name their inverters. The issue of running for only half an hour is another quality issue that probably deserves a separate topic.

 

[wattmatters]

Oh, is that all he was saying? I heard him say Chinese inverters were not intended to be used of grid any longer than an hour.

His main themes are:
- if you are an off grid home them do not expect a hybrid inverter designed primarily for grid tied operation to work reliably. Use an inverter designed for permanent off grid use.
- specify a system’s capacity appropriate for your needs

Basically he’s saying “use the right tool for the job”.

 

[Bobert]

A bit of information I have just spotted on youtube

apparently the Chinese regard hybrid, to mean off grid in a black out for about 30 minutes to an hour, and any prolonged "off the grid" time ie days will burn out a hybrid inverter. I really need to know if this is the case.

As Growatt hybrid inverters cost twice the amount as their off grid inverters, I would be stupid to buy one if it's just going to leave us in the dark when the mains gets turned off.
What's the alternative to hybrid?



For those of you who don't know..... France supplies Britain with 50% of our electricity. Southern England being closest to France, will be affected if there's a switch off.
France has a problem with it's electricity supply; it's gas powered stations can't cope and the nuke stations have been turned off due to decay because of a lack of investment.
Macron want's to build new nuke stations but this will take years, and he is now talking about turning off the supply to the UK.
Ok, if this happens the national grid will no doubt pump up the grid to supply as much as they can, but Devon and Cornwall watch out.
Coal stations will not happen over night, even if they did, it's been so long since the pits were working there are no miners anymore, all gone into different jobs and retired.

I use a hybrid inverter in my camper. The inverter has worked flawlessly for nearly a year. I have used it connected to the grid, solar, and the generator individually and in various combinations. I have had issues with how the charge controller handles solar panels but other than that I have zero complaints. I think the biggest thing is properly sizing the inverter it’s not designed to be run above peak capacity.

 

[wattmatters]

Frankly I dislike the way the term “hybrid” is used by the industry. It has created much confusion.