diy solar

diy solar

I don't like adjustable racking

8.8kw ground mount NAZ PVWatts says:

View attachment 177828

15, 30, 35, and 45 degrees.
30 and 35 could to either way it seems as far as the best overall annual production fixed which is what we’ve been planning
I also ran numbers for 10, 20, 25, 40, 60, and 90 which was unproductive

If it was a single tilt of 15 in April-September and 45 in October-March it equates to16,583 which does not seem worth the hassle as most months were fairly consistent regardless of tilt.
Run it using JRC. I never liked PV Watts, always thought it was a little inaccurate.

As I use seasonal tilt, you have to use the highest production for a month at a particular tilt. As I stated above, the difference between 65 degrees and 30 degrees in July was quite substantial (35%). The same applies for 30 degrees and 65 degrees in December, it comes out to -25.28% for my location. Using 45 degrees and 65 degrees comes out to -8.27%. Even though many might consider 8.27% not a big deal, it still is 8.27% which on a 58Kwh bank is 4.64Kwh, over half of our daily Kwh if we minimize Kwh drawn for the day. Just enough to possibly make it thru another cloudy day when it's cloudy for 6 or more days in a row.

The same people who would say they wouldn't buy an inverter that has X watts of idle consumption would throw away potential PV yield. Yet that same 4.64Kwh would more than cover the X watts of idle consumption for 24 hours that my inverters use.
 
@Zwy
Both options of single tracking, dual tracking and fixed 35
Huge difference in total estimates vs pvwatts though

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There is always "outliers" that may require adjustability and your latitude will play big part. Even though I only have ground mounts it would be extremely difficult to clear snow off if I didn't have them at 50°-60°. Even at those angles I have to clear snow off with 18ft. adjustable pole with squeegee on end. There could be months where even with clear sunny days it would never get warm enough to melt any snow off of panels. In summer that amount of tilt would make it more risky especially with farm animals and likelihood of severe weather with strong winds so changing tilt back is also advantageous for me even if I don't need the extra power then.

As side note I have found black frame panels to be advantageous during certain weather periods in winter for my location since it sometimes would be enough to keep melting snow from refreezing on the bottom panel frames and creating an "ice dam".
 
Run it using JRC. I never liked PV Watts, always thought it was a little inaccurate.
Thank you for mentioning JRC. I can say I learned something today.
I'll compare my previous calcs from PVwatts tomorrow when I'm on a bigger screen.
So far I can say angle makes a drastic difference in PA, so much so I've been eyeing a spot in the back yard to relocate the S roof array build another ground mount.
 
Both interesting points. My assumption in regards to snow was similar to your statements. There’s a few comments in here that have me second guessing that.
But then one must also consider that @Zwy says he’s got consistent temps of -20F and I simply can’t relate to that. Maybe that’s why it lacks opportunity to melt as that’s simply brutally cold.
I hope I fare better with longest cold stretches being a week of lows around 0 to 5F, otherwise your squeegee idea may come into play.

Your second piece about sunset and only gaining 30min to an hour is a bit surprising to me. I’ve been trying to understand the data of E/W arrays to extend production hours thus reducing battery demand but an hour or less is much different than 2-3. Hmm.
I can only go by observed. As far as summer vs winter, the sun simply does not shine as much in the winter, so there is a loss there, however I look at my curves and it just doesn't jibe with "what it is supposed to be". I have 32 panels flat on a 2/12 roof. That is WAY under optimal, like < 20 degrees of pitch and yet even now my peak output can hit close to10KW on the 14.5K of roof panels.

Nice thing about Phoenix is the sun is pretty consistent, to the point of monotony. My Solar production curves are generally as smooth as glass.

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Had to go back a few days when I charged my car, and took a full days solar production. The dark blue humps at 9:15 and 11 were from me moving the car that was blocking the sun from B-PV3 (a yard ornament, that I actually sold today) and then re-stacking some panels that had fallen off the blocks. The curve is now smooth subsequent days.

'A-PV3' is 7x250 is currently facing due west, maybe slightly south (260/265ish) at about 35-40 degrees. B-PV3 is 8x250 laying flat on cinder block. As in just laying on the ground, with a 6x8x8 cinder block at each corner, as in my back yard slopes slightly to the north. I'm going to re-arrange a little, this weekend, but we actually have some clouds coming in starting tomorrow and that wet crap might fall from the sky on thursday and friday, so I won't have anything to graph until the sun comes back out. Dec 21/22 is just around the corner so the world is going to wobble around kinda funky for the next few months until we get closer to the equinox this spring. You can see the difference though the slightly smaller by 15% A-PV3 string actually matches output with the decidedly sub-optimal B string around 1530. By 1630 they are both pretty much done. the flat laying panels dying out about 15-20 minutes ahead of the west facing ones. There is a block wall to the west and the A string is actually elevated about 2 feet vs 8 inches on the flat panel, so I'm not sure it would even be that drastic if they were both up about 3 feet or so.

I've shuffled these panels around 7 ways from sunday, but you can see the due west panels don't catch anything until after 9. Frankly I think the best bet now that I have more battery is likely mostly south with a slight westerly azmuth for the late summer sun, just grab the maximum light and store what I can. Optimal angle for year round is supposedly just your lattitude, so like 33ish here, I think the range is 18 to 45 or something here in Phoenix, and I would guess Texas and most of the places along this lat, probably just don't suffer that much from angle issues, because I think you just don't take that much loss up to about 30% off TDC.

For me, power consumption is generally drastically lower here in the winter, so daily power requirements have dropped to 30-40%. At the moment I'm producing 60KWH and using 35-45/day depending on car charging depletion. Peak production this summer was around 105KWH, generally closer to 95, and I was using as much as 115, generally around 100.. So I'm getting around 60-65% of my summer output, the bulk of the loss because the day is way shorter.

All that being spewed, a panel covered with snow produces pretty much 0KWH, so if that is a consideration, and adding 30 or 40 degrees of pitch generally keeps the snow off in the winter, that would seem to be a "no-brainer", You get a winter power bonus, and you don't have to manually remove extra white stuff. OTOH, I don't believe a tracking system is ever going to pay you back, and somehow I think putting a bunch of hinges and gears that move thru the day is not going to improve reliability. I think Tim's 'Winter Panel placement' idea is the ticket, just the opposite of me seasonally. You just point and pitch everything for the worst production/use ratio days so you can grab and store every scrap because you need it. Then in the summer when it's plentiful you don't really care if it's optimal because you toss way more than you can use anyway.
 
Thank you for mentioning JRC. I can say I learned something today.
I'll compare my previous calcs from PVwatts tomorrow when I'm on a bigger screen.
So far I can say angle makes a drastic difference in PA, so much so I've been eyeing a spot in the back yard to relocate the S roof array build another ground mount.
No need. You’re gonna build your next array on 20 acres
 
@G00SE, I see the estimates you posted. My problem is I think estimate numbers like this are a bit pie in the sky based on calculations against 100% optimal conditions vs worst case conditions. Again, if you live up in the northern latitudes you really need to point your panels at the horizon to get sun in the winter, so being able to adjust your pitch makes more sense because the summer/winter pitch difference is larger. East-West tracking I'm just not seeing because as the sun sets the amount of atmosphere you have to punch thru goes up exponentially and from what I see in practice based on observed data your spending exponentially more effort for something an extra panel would do better, since you have to build something with a motor that moves throughout the day for the dubious gain.

I'd put $100 down that if you put 2 strings in an open field one with 8 panels on a 'tracker' and one with 9 panels facing south on a simple hinged frame with two pitches one for summer, one for winter, that the 9 panel array would produce more net power over a year than the 8 panel one. Further I'd bet if they were both 8 panels the net difference would be well under 5%. I'd love to be proven wrong by an actual side-by-side, even with a tracker, and a fixed set for the mid-point.
 
For offgridders it's fixed at 45 Degrees for winter in Tennessee. So much extra power during the summer anyway. The thing that I struggle with is the cost of racking is almost as much as the panels. There has to be someway to mount panels affordably.
Even fixed racking isn’t cheap.
 
@G00SE, I see the estimates you posted. My problem is I think estimate numbers like this are a bit pie in the sky based on calculations against 100% optimal conditions vs worst case conditions. Again, if you live up in the northern latitudes you really need to point your panels at the horizon to get sun in the winter, so being able to adjust your pitch makes more sense because the summer/winter pitch difference is larger. East-West tracking I'm just not seeing because as the sun sets the amount of atmosphere you have to punch thru goes up exponentially and from what I see in practice based on observed data your spending exponentially more effort for something an extra panel would do better, since you have to build something with a motor that moves throughout the day for the dubious gain.

I'd put $100 down that if you put 2 strings in an open field one with 8 panels on a 'tracker' and one with 9 panels facing south on a simple hinged frame with two pitches one for summer, one for winter, that the 9 panel array would produce more net power over a year than the 8 panel one. Further I'd bet if they were both 8 panels the net difference would be well under 5%. I'd love to be proven wrong by an actual side-by-side, even with a tracker, and a fixed set for the mid-point.

I’m only one degree north of you. I suspect you may be right on the comparison.
 
@Zwy
Both options of single tracking, dual tracking and fixed 35
Huge difference in total estimates vs pvwatts though

View attachment 177866
I think the problem is that most members here use PV Watts and I don't think it is accurate.

I just inputted Phoenix in JRC again, used fixed grid tie at 35 degrees and result is different than yours. What are you using for System Loss % ?

I also ran tracking and checked Optimize. Numbers are still different.

So either it isn't Phoenix or some other input is different.
 
I think the problem is that most members here use PV Watts and I don't think it is accurate.

I just inputted Phoenix in JRC again, used fixed grid tie at 35 degrees and result is different than yours. What are you using for System Loss % ?

I also ran tracking and checked Optimize. Numbers are still different.

So either it isn't Phoenix or some other input is different.
Try show low
 
I have no fancy adjustments on my panels/angles/etc. (need to do an actual install of some type some time soon) but when I raise them manually/precariously more off the ground I get something like a 20-30 % increase..

PXL_20231029_183512843.jpg

PXL_20231025_210159414.jpg
 
Tried it using 10Kw of PV and things are still different.

Nice area, I'll be coming thru from TX to Quartzsite/Yuma in January. Looks cold where you are with snow.
I wonder what it is we are doing differently. I put 8.8 vs 10k but I don’t know what you’re seeing differently for results either
I left the default settings for system loss and other factors
 
Yep I had that huge grid spike on 11/9 cause the two days before that were virtually no sun...overcast snow...etc... battery hit bottom, went to grid charging and bypass til 100 % SOC.
 
Try show low
May head up there for thanksgiving just to get away. Really nice library there with an EV charging station at the City Center. Great place to stop and charge, you can leave the car, go inside with the laptop, use the Wifi, there are a few coffee shops close by. Not a great Solar day but 4 nice charging stations at the edge of the parking lot, mostly visible from the library window. ;) Looking at off-grid property up that way, but much of it is ridiculously expensive. Very pretty area, and you can be 50F warmer with a short 2-3 hour drive when you get sick of the snow!

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I have no fancy adjustments on my panels/angles/etc. (need to do an actual install of some type some time soon) but when I raise them manually/precariously more off the ground I get something like a 20-30 % increase..

I can believe it, your winter optimal is closer to 60 degrees. I think the production curve really starts to drop at about 30 degrees from optimal. I'd bet you wouldn't notice that much difference between 40 and 60, but DUDE! C'mon go to Home depot and pick up a couple of 2x4's and build a simple braced lean-to / triangle. I mean I know you CAN use an old rotted fence post under each panel but sheesh! $50 of lumber I stretched a pair of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0831DDS9W/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 with some angle iron. I did have to buy some longer hex drive bolts, to get the mounts to work. cheesy but funtional
 
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