Question....@saggys.......I was under the impression that the low idle kit is a factory installed option...If not I would like to install on my XP1100 , details please
Idle 'no load' Consumption: Specs vs Your Personal Observation
- Thread starter Dzl
- Start date
You can contact Exeltech and they will ship you a kit for about $30. It consists of a section of heat shrink and a ferrite rod that you attach across the output? inductor. They will send detailed instructions as well.
They also have a option 20 transfer switch so you can use grid or generator power, it is under addendum for XP1100 on their website.
I ordered that also but have not tested it yet, I think that was around $50.
SpongeboB Sinewave
Solar Enthusiast
20 watts or so is perfect if it is putting out 120 or 240 volts sine wave. Should be way less than that if it's not. If it is only an inverter then maybe two or three watts when it is turned off would be about right
Hardergamer1
New Member
Reliable 1500w 24v 250v 50hz & 2000w 24v 240v 50Hz, (not the newer WZRELB types) Switched on, no loads 12w & 15w, the 1500w uses 1610w at 1500w output, and the 2000w uses 2180w.
One more thing, the 2000w inverter shuts down at about 2100w, but the 1500w inverter will not shut down even at 2500w, they both have voltage sag/drop compensation, and even at 2500w it's still around 245v. Also, the 1500w inverter was modified by the seller to 250v output, and I paid extra for 2 stage slower speed quiet fans at lower power draw, not the on-off full power fans that are standard, now at around 1400w draw the fans run much slower speed. I am now thinking of changing the input 100a trip/breaker to say 60a, as I think they messed something up when they altered it.
And it's not worth all the hassle sending it back to China.
One more thing, the 2000w inverter shuts down at about 2100w, but the 1500w inverter will not shut down even at 2500w, they both have voltage sag/drop compensation, and even at 2500w it's still around 245v. Also, the 1500w inverter was modified by the seller to 250v output, and I paid extra for 2 stage slower speed quiet fans at lower power draw, not the on-off full power fans that are standard, now at around 1400w draw the fans run much slower speed. I am now thinking of changing the input 100a trip/breaker to say 60a, as I think they messed something up when they altered it.
And it's not worth all the hassle sending it back to China.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
Per the datasheet:
20W is normal in the ON position. Should be dramatically less in "off"
Here is my VRM with the inverter in "charger only" mode as set by the inverter controls in VRM.
SoC and power are as reported by the Batrium. BMV-702 reports within 0.1A of the Batrium as well....
21W, and that's the Wireless AP, the MiniPC and the Batrium (very consistent with their power specs). The dual 48/5000 Quattros are pulling nothing.
Very curious to see the results with the power cable disconnected.
uncle.driftwood
New Member
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Eg4 3000ehv
48v
3000w
observed 68.9w ? spec <50w idle
eco mode not on, flashes my lights every 4 seconds
This thing makes more noise and uses more power than my full size fridge/freezer.
48v
3000w
observed 68.9w ? spec <50w idle
eco mode not on, flashes my lights every 4 seconds
This thing makes more noise and uses more power than my full size fridge/freezer.
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Solar Wizard
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12 watts from the AIMS 3000W PSW inverter. (It's an inverter only, no charger).
It starts all the appliances including chop and even large beam saws without hesitation.
I can't imagine an inverter with a 100 plus watt idle draw.
I do have a question though. On those units with big draw, say 100 watts, if you put let's say a 100 watt load on the thing, does it then draw 200 watts or does it fall into its efficiency rating and draw maybe 110 watts (just throwing out a random number) with a 100 watt load?
An idling car is producing enough power to make the car move but staying still its getting 0 MPG....
It starts all the appliances including chop and even large beam saws without hesitation.
I can't imagine an inverter with a 100 plus watt idle draw.
I do have a question though. On those units with big draw, say 100 watts, if you put let's say a 100 watt load on the thing, does it then draw 200 watts or does it fall into its efficiency rating and draw maybe 110 watts (just throwing out a random number) with a 100 watt load?
An idling car is producing enough power to make the car move but staying still its getting 0 MPG....
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Solar Wizard
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I assume inverters with huge idle draws have very large transformers that as a result, have high capacitance?
I guess we can't be too harsh as grid ac transformers have to be filled with oil to stay cool and are obviously wasting power as well.
I guess we can't be too harsh as grid ac transformers have to be filled with oil to stay cool and are obviously wasting power as well.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
No. The typical Growatt, MPP solar, Voltronics, etc., are all lightweight HF inverters without heavy transformers, but have very high idle rates.
I have an old Dynamote Brutus Inverter that draws 96 watts at idle but at higher power levels the overall efficiency improves a lot, it‘s only at small loads or ideling that the 96 watt idle draw is a problem. Its effeincy is close to the big transformer Magnasine inverters at over 1 kw. It is rated 3200 watts but has a whopping 19,200 watt overload capability. It will start and run a larger motor than the Magnasine will, has a much bigger transformer and outweighs the Magnasine by a good 20 pounds, on par with the big Schneiders
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Solar Wizard
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What's the reason for the high idle draw with those units?
130 watts with some of those? That's a lot of heat being generated just because the switch is on.
Then again maybe it doesn't matter in relation to their output. Some guys are so sun-rich. ?
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Solar Wizard
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Not to threadjack but maybe a little...was that company up in Shoreline? Their inverters were popular with the sailboat and yacht crowd?
I think that it was in N.E. Washington area, where a bunch of the really great inverter designers were. That was in the very early days of inverters along with the Trace.
There was another inverter company back then that predated both the Trace and the Brutus and the designer was a sailor. Forgot the name for the moment but if @SpongeboB Sinewave is here about he will recall that for sure.
There was another inverter company back then that predated both the Trace and the Brutus and the designer was a sailor. Forgot the name for the moment but if @SpongeboB Sinewave is here about he will recall that for sure.
SpongeboB Sinewave
Solar Enthusiast
Heart Interface is probably who you were thinking of. Heart Ackerman and Steve Johnston started Heart. Then about a year later, Steve started Trace Engineering with a few others. Those others also worked at Phase Linear (Bob Carver) in the very early 1970s which was the "seed" basically for MANY Seattle area companies, both audio and inverter. I was at PL for a while. Phase Linear used to wind their own power transformers, as they did at Trace etc... so they knew how to do that already when the inverters came about.
Dynamote was the only company not part of that group. They were located partly in Shoreline (Brian Faley) but I think the company was down near Fremont or Magnolia. Brian Faley and Milt Rice were two engineers there. We worked with both of them at Trace and Magnum. Unfortunately, Milt Rice passed away by his ultralight around 2000 while he was at Trace. That was a sad time.
I would say that those HF inverters from China etc. do not have great idle power loss because they do not know that it is greatly wanted. So they don't work hard to reduce the idle.
And, usually, if an inverter has a idle or "tare" loss of whatever watts, that will not go down when you add a load to it. It is possible though to a certain extent I guess, but I would not think it would be much. Efficiency certainly goes up when you load it down a lot because the idle power becomes less than the actual load. I mean, 100 watts of idle or 10 watts of idle power, the efficiency is still zero when unloaded. Or is it negative ? ?
boB
Dynamote was the only company not part of that group. They were located partly in Shoreline (Brian Faley) but I think the company was down near Fremont or Magnolia. Brian Faley and Milt Rice were two engineers there. We worked with both of them at Trace and Magnum. Unfortunately, Milt Rice passed away by his ultralight around 2000 while he was at Trace. That was a sad time.
I would say that those HF inverters from China etc. do not have great idle power loss because they do not know that it is greatly wanted. So they don't work hard to reduce the idle.
And, usually, if an inverter has a idle or "tare" loss of whatever watts, that will not go down when you add a load to it. It is possible though to a certain extent I guess, but I would not think it would be much. Efficiency certainly goes up when you load it down a lot because the idle power becomes less than the actual load. I mean, 100 watts of idle or 10 watts of idle power, the efficiency is still zero when unloaded. Or is it negative ? ?
boB
Last edited:
42OhmsPA
What's in a title?
Huh? I've always thought / understood they make HF and LF. HF ex, lv6548, tp6548, eg4 6.5k. LF ex lvx6048, tp6048, eg4 6k.
Care to expand further?
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
I should have said more common.
The 3kW units seem to be more prolific than the larger units, and even though the bigger units may have larger transformers, they still fall well short of tier 1 hardware. Weight is an excellent indicator of the relative size of the transformer:
Quattro 48/5000VA: 30kg, 167W/kg
Magnum MS4024PAE: 25kg, 160W/kg
Sigineer (AIMS) 6kW/24V: 45kg, 133W/kg
Above are KNOWN to have large, heavy transformers.
SPF 3000TL LVM-ES: 12kg (includes 80A MPPT), 250W/kg
SPF 5000 ES: 12kg ( includes 100A MPPT), 417W/kg
EG4 3kW: 10kg (includes 80A MPPT), 300W/kg
LV6548: 19kg (includes 2X 60A MPPT), 342W/kg
EG6500: 18kg (includes 2X 60A MPPT), 311W/kg
LVX6048: 26kg (includes 100A MPPT), 230W/kg
The Sigineer/AIMS stands out as those tout a 3X surge capability vs. typical 2X. I selected this unit for my neighbor's 700' deep 3hp Grundfos pump with a 4kW run power. It didn't bat an eye on startup.
Being unable to separate out the weight of the MPPT from the voltronics-like units means those numbers are best case. Based on their power to weight ratio, I can't conclude that any of those models listed actually have a large transformer.
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Solar Wizard
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I just bought a 24/3000 multiplus.
It appears that Victron uses a high frequency setup, according to this video
However, they still use a bigger transformer (2) than say my little aims 3kw which has probably close to the same surge rating and same idle draw.
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Solar Wizard
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Thank you. I think that's the one. It looked similar to this but the one on my friends boat was silver/blue and had an analog volt or frequency meter on the front.
This was many years ago but I remember the high praise sung about their inverters and popularity down at the dock....boat people are more geeky about power than solar guys!
Stock photo:
