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Idle 'no load' Consumption: Specs vs Your Personal Observation

@sunshine_eggo @Checkthisout thanks for the interesting info on the HF vs LF vs 'hybrid'.
I know my TP6048 was/is extremely top heavy, I'd say 95% of the weight is in the top of the unit. SGP stated it is LF when I asked them through Amazon questions and direct email. I also know the led lights pulse/flicker when the washer agitates and the inverter is running off battery/solar, but it starts my 1hp pump ( that I clamped at ~40a ac per leg) while running the rest of the house.
I completely agree it isn't tier 1 and never will be at the price point it's offered, however I'm beyond satisfied for the $1400 shipped to get my feet wet and give 1 finger to the poco. My next move, to give 2 fingers, will be an XW6848 Pro along with more solar and batteries. Heck, I might not even need the batteries with the efficiency savings from the Schneider ?.

Note, to stay thread related, my TP6048 is around 136w idle when connected to utility. Iirc the manufacturer spec (once you dig it up) is 135.

Happy New Year to the best forum I've been involved with ?
 
Merry New Year !

The term "high frequency" can be confusing. 99.999% of sinewave power inverters these days switch at high frequency. HF

Sinewave inverters that use the big heavy 50/60 Hz transformers are usually referred to as LF inverters. Inverters like Victron, Magnum, OutBack, Schneider, SMA, Trace, Heart and the other "heavy weight" inverters, all switch at 20 kHz or higher (so you can't generally hear them) and boost to 120/230 VAC with that big low frequency transformer. The only exception is a modified squarewave inverter.

A true low frequency SW inverter would not only use a heavy 50/60 Hz transformer but would also drive it with an amplifier like for audio with a 50 or 60Hz sinewave oscillator. No switching involved. But that would be much less efficient.

I made a small, 12 watt-- 12 volt one of those inverters once for a guy to use to drive small low power audio pre-amplifiers for use in the field. Recording tribes in Africa. Modified square wave would have been too noisy.

boB
 
Hi all, I am currently looking for an inverter to power my PC and server. Server on 24/7, PC on 10~ hrs/day during the week. Server is <100W and PC is <600W. Want to size up to something like a 2kw as I might add more equipment in the future. Anyway, not to derail, I've found this thread very useful, I've put everyone's answers into this spreadsheet that might be useful to others:

docs.google.com

Inverter Idle Powers

Inverters Dynamote,Brutus,120V,3,200W,88.0W,36 MPP Solar,lvx6048 (AIO),120/240V,6,000W,140.0W,No,42 EG4,3000ehv,12V,3,000W,68.9W,43 Growatt,SPF 3000TL LVM-24P,12V,120V,3,000W,58.0W,Yes,11.5W,51 Easun,Phoenix VE.Direct,24V,230V,1,000W,20W,18.4W,54 Exeltech,XP 1100-124,24V,120V,1,100W,20W,20.0W,5...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

Please take a look and if you have any others please add them, hopefully it's useful to others too. It's a bit mixed up as results here include Inverters, Inverter/Chargers and AIO systems. Would love to find an efficient AIO system as I plan to add solar alongside the battery system.
 
ShaneC said:
Hi all, I am currently looking for an inverter to power my PC and server. Server on 24/7, PC on 10~ hrs/day during the week. Server is <100W and PC is <600W. Want to size up to something like a 2kw as I might add more equipment in the future. Anyway, not to derail, I've found this thread very useful, I've put everyone's answers into this spreadsheet that might be useful to others:

docs.google.com

Inverter Idle Powers

Inverters Dynamote,Brutus,120V,3,200W,88.0W,36 MPP Solar,lvx6048 (AIO),120/240V,6,000W,140.0W,No,42 EG4,3000ehv,12V,3,000W,68.9W,43 Growatt,SPF 3000TL LVM-24P,12V,120V,3,000W,58.0W,Yes,11.5W,51 Easun,Phoenix VE.Direct,24V,230V,1,000W,20W,18.4W,54 Exeltech,XP 1100-124,24V,120V,1,100W,20W,20.0W,5...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

Please take a look and if you have any others please add them, hopefully it's useful to others too. It's a bit mixed up as results here include Inverters, Inverter/Chargers and AIO systems. Would love to find an efficient AIO system as I plan to add solar alongside the battery system.
Click to expand...

Very nice.

Something else to consider is actual inverter conversion efficiency. Most inverters hit peak published efficiency at about 30% rated, so your 2kW inverter will be at max DC-AC conversion efficiency at about 600W - seems pretty well sized for your loads. Does your PC regularly run at 600W, or is that just the peak. If it spends most of its time at a lower power, you might get more efficiency out of a lower power inverter.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
Very nice.

Something else to consider is actual inverter conversion efficiency. Most inverters hit peak published efficiency at about 30% rated, so your 2kW inverter will be at max DC-AC conversion efficiency at about 600W - seems pretty well sized for your loads. Does your PC regularly run at 600W, or is that just the peak. If it spends most of its time at a lower power, you might get more efficiency out of a lower power inverter.
Click to expand...

That's it's peak, average consumption when the GPU isn't in heavy use is around 200-250w. I'm looking at the Giandel 1.5kw inverter, they seem very efficient and 1.5kw is probably plenty for the office.

I've heard that in general you'll get better efficiency with separate devices, so a separate MPPT controller and battery charger which I can power on/off as required with timed relays. Is that correct?
 
ShaneC said:
Hi all, I am currently looking for an inverter to power my PC and server. Server on 24/7, PC on 10~ hrs/day during the week. Server is <100W and PC is <600W. Want to size up to something like a 2kw as I might add more equipment in the future. Anyway, not to derail, I've found this thread very useful, I've put everyone's answers into this spreadsheet that might be useful to others:

docs.google.com

Inverter Idle Powers

Inverters Dynamote,Brutus,120V,3,200W,88.0W,36 MPP Solar,lvx6048 (AIO),120/240V,6,000W,140.0W,No,42 EG4,3000ehv,12V,3,000W,68.9W,43 Growatt,SPF 3000TL LVM-24P,12V,120V,3,000W,58.0W,Yes,11.5W,51 Easun,Phoenix VE.Direct,24V,230V,1,000W,20W,18.4W,54 Exeltech,XP 1100-124,24V,120V,1,100W,20W,20.0W,5...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

Please take a look and if you have any others please add them, hopefully it's useful to others too. It's a bit mixed up as results here include Inverters, Inverter/Chargers and AIO systems. Would love to find an efficient AIO system as I plan to add solar alongside the battery system.
Click to expand...
You can eliminate inverter losses altogether and power a lot of computer stuff off of dc-to-dc converters.
 
ShaneC said:
That's it's peak, average consumption when the GPU isn't in heavy use is around 200-250w. I'm looking at the Giandel 1.5kw inverter, they seem very efficient and 1.5kw is probably plenty for the office.

I've heard that in general you'll get better efficiency with separate devices, so a separate MPPT controller and battery charger which I can power on/off as required with timed relays. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

The all-in-ones are notoriously power hungry. Quality separate components are generally better, but there can be diminishing returns. If a separate AC charger only saved me 1-2W over an integrated inverter/charger, I probably wouldn't bother.
 
Checkthisout said:
You can eliminate inverter losses altogether and power a lot of computer stuff off of dc-to-dc converters.
Click to expand...
any brands to recommend for ATX power supply units?

i have bought a couple from powerstream, but have not deployed them yet and cannot speak of the performance ?‍♂️

High reliability 24V DC Input PC ATX desktop and tower computer Power Supplies, 24 volt Input, 300 watts to 1000 watts, 1U, 4U heights ATX DC-DC.

ATX 24 volt DC Input, 24 volt to ATX Computer Power Supply, ATX DC-DC 24V, PC power supply 24V
www.powerstream.com

the topic is technically DC->AC inverter performance and efficiency, but i think this is relevant to the spirit of situations that would otherwise require DC->AC->DC conversion, like ATX computer power supply units ?
 
12VoltInstalls said:
I read to fast- running off converters or inverters is a zero sum. I read it as “off of DC which is great if you can do it
Click to expand...

Which I mean as either one.

Most of my stuff is wired right to the battery whereas the POE has to pass through a power supply to boost it to 48 volts.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
I have found that most reasonably priced DC-DC converters aren't much more efficient than a quality inverter. Good efficiency is 90-95% peak somewhere in the middle that tapers off to 85% at the extremes
Click to expand...

Yeah I dunno. If you can eliminate the up conversion taking place in the inverter and then the conversion from 120 back to dc then there is some good savings there plus if you can run directly off battery. Voltage depending....

You're right though. Just having an inverter probably doesn't use much more power when someone is looking to fuel an entire server rack that probably has varying input voltage needs coupled with the fact that it's just much more simple to plug-into an outlet vs having to adapt power plugs etc.
 
Checkthisout said:
Yeah I dunno. If you can eliminate the up conversion taking place in the inverter and then the conversion from 120 back to dc then there is some good savings there plus if you can run directly off battery. Voltage depending....

You're right though. Just having an inverter probably doesn't use much more power when someone is looking to fuel an entire server rack that probably has varying input voltage needs coupled with the fact that it's just much more simple to plug-into an outlet vs having to adapt power plugs etc.
Click to expand...

48VDC to 120/240VAC to 12VDC definitely sucks. I see about 75% efficiency on my 12V stuff in the trailers.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
Very curious to see the results with the power cable disconnected.
Click to expand...
Apologies for the long delay on this. Long holiday road trip, and then hit the ground running upon return.

I did test with MP disconnected and, even though I trust implicitly Mr. Sandals meter/knowledge, the results showed the MP not to be the culprit in the draw. Ordering a clamp meter now so, I can further test. I just replied to him the results of my test on another thread he and I have going but, doing to repost results here. (Oh, and I know this conversation may not be welcome here and I apologize for muddying this thread. If anyone has the power to move it to a new thread please do!!!!)
TEST 1

PV Breakers: OFF
MultiPlus: Connected but, OFF
Fridge: OFF

Shunt and Cerbo both reporting a 19w draw

Fridge Fuse pulled:

Shunt and Cerbo both reporting a 9w draw

This points pretty decisively towards the fridge having a continuous draw even when OFF



TEST 2

PV Breakers: OFF
MultiPlus: Positive cable pulled and OFF
Fridge : Connected but, OFF

Shunt and Cerbo both reporting a 18w draw

Fridge Fuse pulled:

Shunt and Cerbo both reporting a 9w draw

Again, a clear finger pointing at the fridge being the culprit, and the MP not being guilty.
 
lance said:
Apologies for the long delay on this. Long holiday road trip, and then hit the ground running upon return.

I did test with MP disconnected and, even though I trust implicitly Mr. Sandals meter/knowledge, the results showed the MP not to be the culprit in the draw. Ordering a clamp meter now so, I can further test. I just replied to him the results of my test on another thread he and I have going but, doing to repost results here. (Oh, and I know this conversation may not be welcome here and I apologize for muddying this thread. If anyone has the power to move it to a new thread please do!!!!)
TEST 1

PV Breakers: OFF
MultiPlus: Connected but, OFF
Fridge: OFF

Shunt and Cerbo both reporting a 19w draw

Fridge Fuse pulled:

Shunt and Cerbo both reporting a 9w draw

This points pretty decisively towards the fridge having a continuous draw even when OFF



TEST 2

PV Breakers: OFF
MultiPlus: Positive cable pulled and OFF
Fridge : Connected but, OFF

Shunt and Cerbo both reporting a 18w draw

Fridge Fuse pulled:

Shunt and Cerbo both reporting a 9w draw

Again, a clear finger pointing at the fridge being the culprit, and the MP not being guilty.
Click to expand...

Good work. Now... Where the Eff is that 9W going? :p
 
sunshine_eggo said:
Good work. Now... Where the Eff is that 9W going? :p
Click to expand...
Well, can't that just be parasitic draw from led lights on Blue Sea breakers, and contactor and Watchmon? Does that seem excessive for those? Or, are you being funny here, and I'm missing it? ?
 
lance said:
Well, can't that just be parasitic draw from led lights on Blue Sea breakers, and contactor and Watchmon? Does that seem excessive for those? Or, are you being funny here, and I'm missing it? ?
Click to expand...

I forgot those details. Yes. 9W is consistent with those loads. My WM5, Mini-PC and Wireless AP burn about 20, and I don't have a contactor. Which one do you have?
 
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