Inverter Live Neutral

[nstokes]

I am trying to wire a 24V 2000W inverter to a distribution panel for a shed. My plan was to set it up just like a standard main panel, but as I have come to understand, lots of inverters output AC with 60V on the Line, 60V on the Neutral, and 0V on ground (as opposed to 120/0/0). I know I need to tie the Neutral and ground together in the panel, so I have a fault current path back to the panel, but I cant seem to find an inverter that explicitly will allow me to bond the neutral/ground (presumably because the Neutral is also hot). Specifically I was about to buy the WZRELB 24V 2500W Inverter, but the instructions are crap.
1. Does anyone have a recommendation for a 24V inverter that will safely allow me to hook it up to a breaker panel?
2. Do all 120V inverter split the output between Line/Neutral? Is there an inverter that outputs 12/0/0 (L/N/G) so I dont have to worry about a live Neutral?
3. Does connecting the inverter and grounding bar in the panel to a grounding electrode in the earth do anything to mitigate this issues (ie give a reference for the AC output?) I dont think I'm fully understanding how the inverters work.

Thanks!

 

[hwy17]

What do you have already that might be tying your plans down?

SW4024 is a 24 volt inverter that will behave correctly with an in panel NG bond. But if you aren't stuck with 24 volt we're gonna tell you to go 48 volt.

 

[nstokes]

I have a Renogy 12/24V 40A charge controller already. This is just powering a small shed, so I didn't think 48V was necessary. I will check out that 24V inverter you mention. Thanks!

 

[hwy17]

What complicates things is the affordability of something like an EG4 3k, usually beating out a 24v system. I don't know what it's NG bonding configuration is though.

I think Magnum inverters were used for a lot of stationary off grid 24v systems, but not a lot of people choosing them for new builds nowadays.

 

[Dynoman]

I am trying to wire a 24V 2000W inverter to a distribution panel for a shed. My plan was to set it up just like a standard main panel, but as I have come to understand, lots of inverters output AC with 60V on the Line, 60V on the Neutral, and 0V on ground (as opposed to 120/0/0). I know I need to tie the Neutral and ground together in the panel, so I have a fault current path back to the panel, but I cant seem to find an inverter that explicitly will allow me to bond the neutral/ground (presumably because the Neutral is also hot). Specifically I was about to buy the WZRELB 24V 2500W Inverter, but the instructions are crap.
1. Does anyone have a recommendation for a 24V inverter that will safely allow me to hook it up to a breaker panel?
2. Do all 120V inverter split the output between Line/Neutral? Is there an inverter that outputs 12/0/0 (L/N/G) so I dont have to worry about a live Neutral?
3. Does connecting the inverter and grounding bar in the panel to a grounding electrode in the earth do anything to mitigate this issues (ie give a reference for the AC output?) I dont think I'm fully understanding how the inverters work.

Thanks!

Samlex makes very good inverters with great manuals. I have bought from Don Rowe in the past with no problems. They are known for there good support and Samlex is too. Can always call Samlex Tech Support and ask questions. I have found their tech support very responsive.

Samlex America | Power Inverters, Battery Chargers, Solar Panel Kits

Samlex is your complete manufacturer of reliable power inverters, battery chargers and solar panels for RV, marine, fleets, off-grid & more.

samlexamerica.com

Samlex inverters are also available on Amazon.

Samlex PST-2000-24 2000W, 24V Pure Sine Inverter | DonRowe.com

The Samlex PST-2000-24, 24 Volt, 2000 Watt Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter features a commercial grade design for extreme reliability and is designed to accommodate tools and appliances in vehicles, RVs, boats, solar systems and more.

www.donrowe.com

 

[Drew888]

Is the inverter internally bonded? Most smaller inverters are set up for mobile use and have a N-G-case bond. What about wiring the panel up as a sub-panel without a N-G bond? Most of these inverters have re-settable breakers that would clear a fault.

 

[LakeHouse]

but as I have come to understand, lots of inverters output AC with 60V on the Line, 60V on the Neutral, and 0V on ground (as opposed to 120/0/0).

This isn’t quite right. With some (maybe most?) inverters, if the neutral and ground aren’t bonded, you would measure about 60V from hot to ground and 60V from neutral to ground, but that doesn’t mean that the inverter is putting out power to the neutral; for example, you would measure 60V at the neutral, but you would be able to get any appreciable power from it. It’s more a matter of where the neutral and ground float if they aren’t bonded to each other. Bonding the ground and neutral solves this problem, and doesn’t produce any negative effects on the ‘short’.

but I cant seem to find an inverter that explicitly will allow me to bond the neutral/ground

This is probably because all inverters would just operate under the assumption that an N-G bond exists somewhere.

 

[MalBurn]

I am trying to wire a 24V 2000W inverter to a distribution panel for a shed. My plan was to set it up just like a standard main panel, but as I have come to understand, lots of inverters output AC with 60V on the Line, 60V on the Neutral, and 0V on ground (as opposed to 120/0/0). I know I need to tie the Neutral and ground together in the panel, so I have a fault current path back to the panel, but I cant seem to find an inverter that explicitly will allow me to bond the neutral/ground (presumably because the Neutral is also hot). Specifically I was about to buy the WZRELB 24V 2500W Inverter, but the instructions are crap.
1. Does anyone have a recommendation for a 24V inverter that will safely allow me to hook it up to a breaker panel?
2. Do all 120V inverter split the output between Line/Neutral? Is there an inverter that outputs 12/0/0 (L/N/G) so I dont have to worry about a live Neutral?
3. Does connecting the inverter and grounding bar in the panel to a grounding electrode in the earth do anything to mitigate this issues (ie give a reference for the AC output?) I dont think I'm fully understanding how the inverters work.

Thanks!

I’ve successfully bonded a 12v (uk 240 ac) version of the WZRELB inverter at the load centre (distribution panel) with no problems.
My version measures 120v on the live and 120v on the neutral, worked fine after bonding and earth trip devices ( rcbo in my case) worked perfectly in earth fault trip tests.

 

[Drew888]

This isn’t quite right. With some (maybe most?) inverters, if the neutral and ground aren’t bonded, you would measure about 60V from hot to ground and 60V from neutral to ground, but that doesn’t mean that the inverter is putting out power to the neutral; for example, you would measure 60V at the neutral, but you would be able to get any appreciable power from it. It’s more a matter of where the neutral and ground float if they aren’t bonded to each other. Bonding the ground and neutral solves this problem, and doesn’t produce any negative effects on the ‘short’.

This is probably because all inverters would just operate under the assumption that an N-G bond exists somewhere.

I'm not sure this correct. Most small inverters that I have checked have an internal bond and if they have an incoming feature they will auto unbound when connected. It just seems that most of the sub-3Kw units were designed for mobile use and not commonly connected to a service panel.

Either way it should be able to be connected to a panel without a N-G bond and if inclined to run an earth ground it could be connected to the inverter.

 

[Solar_freak]

I am trying to wire a 24V 2000W inverter to a distribution panel for a shed. My plan was to set it up just like a standard main panel, but as I have come to understand, lots of inverters output AC with 60V on the Line, 60V on the Neutral, and 0V on ground (as opposed to 120/0/0). I know I need to tie the Neutral and ground together in the panel, so I have a fault current path back to the panel, but I cant seem to find an inverter that explicitly will allow me to bond the neutral/ground (presumably because the Neutral is also hot). Specifically I was about to buy the WZRELB 24V 2500W Inverter, but the instructions are crap.
1. Does anyone have a recommendation for a 24V inverter that will safely allow me to hook it up to a breaker panel?
2. Do all 120V inverter split the output between Line/Neutral? Is there an inverter that outputs 12/0/0 (L/N/G) so I dont have to worry about a live Neutral?
3. Does connecting the inverter and grounding bar in the panel to a grounding electrode in the earth do anything to mitigate this issues (ie give a reference for the AC output?) I dont think I'm fully understanding how the inverters work.

Thanks!

Hello, the Chinese inverters make their power that way , it’s just normal, it’s not up to code and will not pass inspection. If you connect the two together you will burn out the inverter. You may want to check out Victron, I know their expensive but it might be worth a try?

 

[Road Runner]

My plan was to set it up just like a standard main panel, but as I have come to understand, lots of inverters output AC with 60V on the Line, 60V on the Neutral, and 0V on ground (as opposed to 120/0/0).

@nstokes

​

60V 0V 60V. Typically called a Balanced Power System. IF that is what you have the neutral is the 0V center point of the 120V output. The two lines that measure 120V between them are Hot ungrounded Lines. The 0V neutral is not used for power. ( I assume), The 0V neutral is bonded to chassis of the inverter. ???

If this is indeed what you have you do not want to use it for a shed 120Vac power source.
Google:
NEC Article 647 Sensitive Electronic Equipment
647.3 (1)(2)(3)

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