Ironworks Medical Cart Batteries

[TeresaMust]

Any information or help would be greatly appreciated and sorry, in advance for the long message!!!

I have two ironworks medical cart batteries purchased on eBay for $140 each. The Iron Works company is no longer in business so I don’t know much about them. I have them connected in parallel and I am trying to figure out if their BMS needs to be communicating with each other in order to charge them completely with a lithium charger and to use a 500/1000 watt PSW inverter with them connected in parallel.

I Tested them each with a 300 watt inverter and a 50 watt load attached and they ran for 9.45 hours and each delivered very close to 48 amps.

I have a custom made truck camper with two group 27 SLA batteries, 200 watts of solar a 140 amp alternator attached to a voltage sensitive relay that charges the SLA batteries and a 1500 watt HarborFreight inverter.

I run two roof Fantastic Fans, a 1.7 cu foot 110 volt dorm fridge, a few minutes of 750 watt microwave , charge two phones and run a few LED lights. The 180 amps of SLA batteries sometimes struggles to keep up on days when it is cloudy or days I do not drive the truck.

I have made a battery pack , inside an Ammo box with the ironworks batteries and a 300 watt MSW inverter. I have Connected the SLA batteries to the ironworks pack through a fused Renogy DC to DC, 20 amp charger and it is working well to charge up the Ironworks batteries but I am wondering about their limitations. I have a lithium charger to charge the pack when I have shore power

I connected all the camper 12 volt stuff (Fantastic Fans, lights) to the Ironworks pack so that the SLA batteries run only the Fridge and occasional microwave use through the Harbor Freight Inverter.

I was wondering if I could connect a bigger inverter (say 500/1000 watts) to the paralleled ironworks to have a backup for the fridge. Will the individual BMS’s shut the inverter down?

I did try to attach an Everstart Walmart 750 watt inverter that I had lying around to thetwo Ironworks in Parallel and the inverter would not start up. Might be the inverter… not sure.

I am trying to not spend a lot of money but just might buy a Bestec 500/1000 and give it a try.

I messaged a member privately who has used these batteries and he gave me some great info but suggested I post my question here as well.

Sorry again for such a long message!!!!

 

[Gazoo]

What info were you give from the other member? I have 2 Valence 40ah RT medical cart batteries connected in parallel and communication between the two is not needed unless they are connected in series. I looked up your Ironworks and the only thing I could find is they claim a 40ah rating and can be fast charged at 40 amps. The standard charge rate is 20 amps each. Same as my Valence. My Valence batteries have a max continuous discharge rating of 30 amps each or 60 amps with the two connected in parallel. I use the Bestec 300 watt PSW inverter.

Without knowing the actual C discharge rating of your battery it's impossible to suggest the highest wattage inverter you can use and it's most likely determined by the BMS. Maybe the seller you bought from knows and maybe has a spec sheet?

 

[TeresaMust]

What info were you give from the other member? I have 2 Valence 40ah RT medical cart batteries connected in parallel and communication between the two is not needed unless they are connected in series. I looked up your Ironworks and the only thing I could find is they claim a 40ah rating and can be fast charged at 40 amps. The standard charge rate is 20 amps each. Same as my Valence. My Valence batteries have a max continuous discharge rating of 30 amps each or 60 amps with the two connected in parallel. I use the Bestec 300 watt PSW inverter.

Without knowing the actual C discharge rating of your battery it's impossible to suggest the highest wattage inverter you can use and it's most likely determined by the BMS. Maybe the seller you bought from knows and maybe has a spec sheet?

The other member has used many of them. They have been reliable when used in a 12 volt system and should NOT be used in a 24 volt system. The suggestion the other member gave was to parallel them with a battery with a battery with known profile (Battleborn, SOK, etc) as it seemed that in parallel the Ironworks would feed the “known profile” battery. It seems that I have seen a post on this forum where two valence RTs were connected to a Bestec 500 watt PSW Inverter. Might just give that a try with these Ironworks and see how it goes.

 

[Brassburnz]

The other member has used many of them. They have been reliable when used in a 12 volt system and should NOT be used in a 24 volt system. The suggestion the other member gave was to parallel them with a battery with a battery with known profile (Battleborn, SOK, etc) as it seemed that in parallel the Ironworks would feed the “known profile” battery. It seems that I have seen a post on this forum where two valence RTs were connected to a Bestec 500 watt PSW Inverter. Might just give that a try with these Ironworks and see how it goes.

Did the other member state why the Ironworks batteries should not be used in a 24v system? I have an extra set of Ironworks batteries I would like to add to my 24v system. I'm using a Giandel 2000/4000w PSW inverter with two 12v BatteryEvo's in series.

 

[Deleted member 1888]

I replaced two 12v AGM batteries in my electric wheelchair with Ironworks batteries. My wheelchair is 24v with two separate battery boxes for each battery. Each battery plugs into a drive control unit with Anderson SB170 connectors. The wheelchair functions the same as it did with AGM. I replaced the 24v AGM charger with a 24v LiFePO4 charger that plugs into the wheelchair drive controller.

Did the other member state why the Ironworks batteries should not be used in a 24v system? I have an extra set of Ironworks batteries I would like to add to my 24v system. I'm using a Giandel 2000/4000w PSW inverter with two 12v BatteryEvo's in series.

I would be that other member, when I used my Iornworks in 24v 2 of them died and almost started a fire. So I told them they are not good to use in 24v, that may be why the company is no longer around.

 

[Brassburnz]

I would be that other member, when I used my Iornworks in 24v 2 of them died and almost started a fire. So I told them they are not good to use in 24v, that may be why the company is no longer around.

Good to know. Thanks. Are you still running them in 48v series?

 

[Deleted member 1888]

Are you still running them in 48v series?

NOOO 12v only I may even sell them to get more raw cells to make my own.

 

[Brassburnz]

NOOO 12v only I may even sell them to get more raw cells to make my own.

Thanks so much for your replies to my message and in this thread. I have two Ironworks batteries powering my 24v wheelchair but they are not connected to each other to form a 24v battery. Each Ironworks has a battery case and wiring to an Anderson SB170 connector. The connectors plug into a drive controller that also doubles as a battery charger.

The Ironworks are replacing two 12v AGM lead acid batteries. I haven't had any problems so far. Nothing out of the usual because they are working as two independent 12v batteries.

I have four extra Ironworks batteries I wanted to add to my 24v system, 2S2P but I guess I'll have to scrap that idea.

I saw what looks like a communication port on the front of the Ironworks battery. Any idea what that is for? Maybe it comes into play when connecting them in series.

 

[Bob B]

Whether a battery can be used in series in generally determined by the voltage rating of the BMS components. I don't know anything about those specific batteries, however.

 

[Brassburnz]

NOOO 12v only I may even sell them to get more raw cells to make my own.

I contacted the Ebay seller (superiorbatteryinc) and asked about connecting the Ironworks in series for a 24v system. I was told a BMS would be needed. On another thread, another member used a battery balancer. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/do-i-need-a-bms-for-series-batteries.25139/

I found a 24v battery equalizer that looks like it would work to keep the batteries in balance. When you connected your batteries in series, did you use a BMS or battery equalizer? Still trying to find a way to use them in a 24v system.

I performed a capacity test and I pulled 470 (82%), 498 (86%), 525 (91%), and 559 (97%) Wh from the batteries. Capacity is listed as 573 Wh.

 

[Deleted member 1888]

I contacted the Ebay seller (superiorbatteryinc) and asked about connecting the Ironworks in series for a 24v system. I was told a BMS would be needed. On another thread, another member used a battery balancer. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/do-i-need-a-bms-for-series-batteries.25139/

I found a 24v battery equalizer that looks like it would work to keep the batteries in balance. When you connected your batteries in series, did you use a BMS or battery equalizer? Still trying to find a way to use them in a 24v system.

I performed a capacity test and I pulled 470 (82%), 498 (86%), 525 (91%), and 559 (97%) Wh from the batteries. Capacity is listed as 573 Wh.

No I just hooked them together and ran with it.

 

[Brassburnz]

No I just hooked them together and ran with it.

Thanks. I'm going to try to connect them in series with the battery equalizer. Hopefully nothing will catch fire!

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L8XKZ71/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A17W26ZXUKVKHY&psc=1

 

[Brassburnz]

The other member has used many of them. They have been reliable when used in a 12 volt system and should NOT be used in a 24 volt system. The suggestion the other member gave was to parallel them with a battery with a battery with known profile (Battleborn, SOK, etc) as it seemed that in parallel the Ironworks would feed the “known profile” battery. It seems that I have seen a post on this forum where two valence RTs were connected to a Bestec 500 watt PSW Inverter. Might just give that a try with these Ironworks and see how it goes.

Have you been able to get the Ironworks battery to work with an inverter? I'm having a similar issue with a Giandel 12 volt 1200 watt inverter. The inverter beeps but won't stay on. Batteries are charged to 13.6 volts and verified with a volt-meter. I checked capacity with an electronic load tester. I'm only using a single battery.

 

[new2]

I bought one of these batteries, and it arrived dead. Measured about 1.2V. Since the seller didn't want it back, I took it apart, and lo and behold, the terminals connected to the BMS at the top measured about 12V, and I was able to charge it with a regular 12V car charger to 12.75V. This is a long shot here, but does anyone know what component in the BMS failed? It's not the fuses, by the way. I thought that the communication port might have to be plugged in to get it to work, but reading the posts above that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Brassburnz]

I bought one of these batteries, and it arrived dead. Measured about 1.2V. Since the seller didn't want it back, I took it apart, and lo and behold, the terminals connected to the BMS at the top measured about 12V, and I was able to charge it with a regular 12V car charger to 12.75V. This is a long shot here, but does anyone know what component in the BMS failed? It's not the fuses, by the way. I thought that the communication port might have to be plugged in to get it to work, but reading the posts above that doesn't seem to be the case.View attachment 57457View attachment 57458

I have no idea what the problem could be with the BMS but thanks for the pics. There's a discussion in the power wheel-chair forum where some prefer to use LiFePO4 battery banks without a BMS. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/wheelchairdriver.21991/

I replaced the AGM batteries in my power wheel-chair with Ironworks and it seems to be working fine but I was wondering how to bypass or remove the BMS. How difficult was it to open the case? Thanks.

 

[new2]

There is a seam at the top. Use a hammer, ball peen if you have it (I didn't), and hammer the case at the seam, all the way around. this will crack/loosen the glue that holds the top on. This will take a few minutes to get the top loose enough to take off.
It looks like I will be using this without a BMS, by bypassing the board and connecting straight to terminals. That way I can use the fuse and resettable fuses (the square yellow things).
Side note: I accidentally shorted one of the Polyswitch resettables, and it took forever to unsolder shorted leads and resolder the replacements in. There is a massive amount of copper on the board, and I had to use two soldering irons to overcome the mass and melt the solder.

 

[Gsx62391]

I would be that other member, when I used my Iornworks in 24v 2 of them died and almost started a fire. So I told them they are not good to use in 24v, that may be why the company is no longer around.

I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, but what exactly is Almost caught on fire? I thought lifepo4 batteries are relatively safe from catching on fire.

 

[Gsx62391]

I would be that other member, when I used my Iornworks in 24v 2 of them died and almost started a fire. So I told them they are not good to use in 24v, that may be why the company is no longer around.

And another question if you don't mind, if they died first how could it catch fire if there's no energy left in them to do so? Was it the built in bms or the cells?

 

[Deleted member 1888]

And another question if you don't mind, if they died first how could it catch fire if there's no energy left in them to do so? Was it the built in bms or the cells?

I had 2 12v in series to make 24v, once 12v died and the other was pumping very high amps into the other to get its volts up. They ehated up the wires and BMS and almost started a fire.

 

[Brassburnz]

I'm glad this thread is still active. I have 6 of these batteries sitting in my garage. Actually two are being used in an electric wheelchair and four are in the garage. Checked them yesterday and two are sitting at 12.9v and the other two are 13.1v. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with them. I wanted to build them into a 24v system, but after seeing Psychotic Episode's post I ditched that idea. Built the 24v system with BatteryEvo units. Running 24/7 for 291 days.