diy solar

diy solar

Is this real or a hoax? California $0.00 export rate

Put another way, if you wanted to curtail rooftop PV by employing a tactic of raising the grid's frequency, then you'd have to add more supply (or remove load or both) in order to cause a rise in grid frequency. That makes zero sense if you are attempting to remove supply (i.e. rooftop PV) in the first place.
You are suggesting the tail wags the dog in both physics and politically. Frequency rises because of oversupply, not as an independent variable. If frequency rises too much, then removing supply is absolutely the right thing to do.

You are absolutely right that frequency-watt is not a tactical form of control, whatever that means. From the utility's point of view, they would love to tactically shut off everyone's rooftop PV forever (at least in California) because it's a huge money-loser due to lost revenue from inflated utility rates. As you mentioned, physically they cannot do that on purpose, but secondarily and more importantly, they cannot do that politically either because it would be reneging on existing NEM contracts with individual customers. That is precisely the reason why it's possible for prices to go negative at all. Other players pay the cost for rooftop PVs oversupply.

Anyways, the answer is more battery storage everywhere, and with increasing grid interactivity. Your own linked chart shows this. VPP is still a new concept that needs to be refined more to fit the distributed energy landscape of the future.
 
From the utility's point of view, they would love to tactically shut off everyone's rooftop PV forever (at least in California) because it's a huge money-loser due to lost revenue from inflated utility rates. As you mentioned, physically they cannot do that on purpose, but secondarily and more importantly, they cannot do that politically either because it would be reneging on existing NEM contracts with individual customers.

If that occurred at a time of peak demand, I think the grid would collapse due to lack of supply.

Which is why I want to form an Organization of Photo Electric Customers, yank our disconnect switches all at 2:30 PM on a hot summers day, then sit down to negotiate how much we must be paid to put our valuable power back on the grid.
 
If that occurred at a time of peak demand, I think the grid would collapse due to lack of supply.

Which is why I want to form an Organization of Photo Electric Customers, yank our disconnect switches all at 2:30 PM on a hot summers day, then sit down to negotiate how much we must be paid to put our valuable power back on the grid.
Following the Enron playbook I see....oh heavenstobetsy all these plants just went down for maintenance at the same time...what are the odds?
 
Following the Enron playbook I see....oh heavenstobetsy all these plants just went down for maintenance at the same time...what are the odds?
A lot has changed since the Wild West that was first few years of de regulation. Thanks California, it put a pause on de regulation by a few years on the east coast.

Lots of markets have capacity supply obligation markets, generators get paid before they are needed, so when they are needed they will be there. The flip side is if they are broke or trip, then they have to caught up the coin.

Again carrot and stick method.
 
This is why people are starting to move their solar panels to face the sun during peak demand instead of the 1980s concept of max total production.

In this area, peak demand / highest pricing is roughly August 2 pm - 8pm. The later in the day, the better.

Go outside and look at how the sunlight hits your house a few times from 3 pm - 7 pm tonight. That is where the bulk of the panels need to be.

The other time is from 7 am - 10 am.

The rest of the day is not that helpful IMHO.
 
Look out for #1 (have some panels aimed at Noon or so to supply yourself when the grid is down.)
The AM panels may help the grid, but no financial incentive for that, only do it to help yourself.

Highest pricing used to be Noon - 6:00 PM. Now it is 4:00 - 9:00 PM under NEM 1.0 and I think 2.0, difficult to do much there with orientation.
So you may want to just maximize production. Either backfeed at that time for off-tier credit, or put in a battery for $0.20 higher peak credits.
I think panels aimed due south will earn more credit than aimed to catch sun after 4:00 PM.

NEM 3.0, the only decent credit is going to be something like 6:00 to 8:00 PM, so unless you use it when you make it, battery is the only way.
 
They do something like that with me. An aggregator - OhmConnect - pays me $$$ to feed power back to the grid during power shortages. I've made about $1800 in the past four years.
Hey! A fellow member of OhmConnect. I've posted here a couple times. I've made something around $900 a per year the last 3+ years running.

They're really pushing for Texas members to join.
 
Anyways, the answer is more battery storage everywhere, and with increasing grid interactivity. Your own linked chart shows this. VPP is still a new concept that needs to be refined more to fit the distributed energy landscape of the future.
Agree although I would say it's but one of multiple strategies required.

Which is why I suggest keeping an eye on Australia (esp. Sth Aust). Multiple VPPs in operation. But definitely it's a developing area. VPPs started here in 2016, and now there is something like 500-700 MW under VPP management across Australia. From an engineering perspective they have been shown to work quite well and there has been a fair bit of knowledge gained. As a commercial option it's a bit more challenging to make them attractive to the household.

You are absolutely right that frequency-watt is not a tactical form of control, whatever that means.
Just to be clear - the suggestion was made upthread that the grid operators would be better to use frequency control than voltage as a means to curtail rooftop PV generation as desired.

I'm just pointing out the physical folly of that. Allowing (or causing) the grid frequency to rise as a way to throttle PV generation is not a method which can target just rooftop PV. It impacts everything connected to the entire grid - all loads and generation sources. Grid operators will never use that as a means for strategic or tactical curtailment of rooftop PV. That's akin burning the whole suburb/town down because you found a spider in your bedroom. Yes, if the grid frequency rises out of spec then rooftop PV inverters will (should) throttle/shut down. But that's an emergency response mechanism, not strategic management.

Meanwhile voltage can be managed locally and fairly easily at substation level.

But better again is data control signals to the inverters themselves.

As to political and commercial/contractual considerations, in the end if they are not sorted out then physics takes over.

Overpricing excess exported rooftop PV generation is madness, so that will take some time to wash out of the system. At least here that was realised relatively early on and the last of the high feed in credit rates were abandoned the best part of a decade ago. Some still have them as a legacy arrangement but they will soon pass and in general they are a minority and those that do still have them have relatively small systems.
 
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