Ive just has a Lion fire

[SparkyJJO]

So, you're using the rack style then? I guess you can't put a fuse on each cell (pack) on the large wall mounted batteries that are sealed. I was wondering about cement board. Basement is where you're going to install, would you vent this so if something happened the gasses won't fill up the home?

Nope not rack style. DIY metal box. But if I had my druthers, I may go with a DIY box "kit" like Luyuan as it might go a little faster.
As far as venting, I have no real plans for it. Not sure how I'd accomplish that. But I don't see any reason the cells would start venting as I'm preventing any sort of overcharging, undercharging, current dumps, etc. LFP doesn't just vent for the fun of it, something has to cause it right, and the main cause is overcharging.

 

[doubledutch]

This is like the laptop and cell phone fires in 2007/2008 timeframe.
Which is why I didn't invest in Tesla back then.

There were defective big-name batteries, and counterfeits that got into the authorized supply chain for name brands.

These days, lots of automated inspection steps and the like for cell manufacturing.

I read that Tesla became aware of the one in a million chance of a cell fire, and realized that was one in a couple hundred customer's homes that would burn down, so engineered the pack to contain it.

For the rest of us, a stone outdoor fireplace for charging and storage seems like a reasonable idea. But laptops and cellphones at least are going to be in our homes, offices, cars.

Reminds me of my old iPhone 6 I am using for privacy purposes: it has a battery in it that has only 60% of it's capacity left..

Nice settup with SMA Sunny Islands in your avatar, you know the Sunny Island Tripower-X is coming out in Europe?

 

[Hedges]

Your "old" iPhone 6 ... that is the model we're using. Don't need something newer for twice the msrp, or 3x to 4x what I can get the old ones for.

Several TriPower models. Easier to use in European market where 230/400Y is common.
I got a TriPower 30000TL-US, had to use transformers from 120V SI 120/208Y to 277/480Y.
Discovered my older model didn't meet utility requirements for intertie.

Sunny Islands are expensive (less in real terms than when they came out years ago for almost same number of dollars), but we got bargains here due to DC Solar fraud and bankruptcy liquidation.

I plan to do a few more as backup systems for family and friends, after getting their Sunny Boy installs done.
I'm only now getting ready to configure LiFePO4; fraction the cost of AGM.

 

[rin67630]

Just to mention: No big cat burnt:
That was not a Lion-fire, but a Li-Ion fire.

 

[dustyPanels]

I admit that I read this thread to find out what a Lion fire was.

Incredibly lucky that you were able to react so quickly. That could have ended much worse.

I had an android phone with a damaged back. One day I dropped it and it burst into smoke. Fortunately I was near a 50 gallon water tank. Dropped it in there. At least it cooled the combustion. Dumped the water afterwards.

 

[Sawmaster]

I've had some years experience with LiIon including a fire where an 18650 cell in a flashlight was exposed to ~800F for about 1 1/2 minutes before it vented with flames. I'd say that's pretty safe considering that any type of battery would have failed at about the same point, and anything normally flammable would have ignited long before that as it did in my case. Yes, venting with flames may give you 1200F heat, but it's just a few seconds and a container like an ammo can will act like a heat sink, transferring heat away from the spot so it won't melt from a few cells igniting. Remembver the early battery problems with the Boeing 787 airplane? Part of their solution was a thicker steel enclosure, and those fires were a lot larger than what we might see from well-made tool batteries or bulk storage of cylindrical LiIon cells. Prismatic cells are less prone to self-immolate and less self-sustaining of fire. LiFePO4 is an order of magnitude safer than that. For a house-sized system i's clearly wisest to put them where a fire won't cause secondary ignition or other damage, or at least to have them in a fire-resistant enclosure.

As I learned early in the game, never cheap cells and never cheap chargers, as cheap cells are far more likely to ignite and overcharging is the usual cause of fires with properly cared for LiIon cells. On seeing thermal images of E-bike and Hoverboard fires, it's clear that the batteries were overheating before they ignited, and the chargers in most instances didn't include cell balancing. Some had no overtemp protection either. Most likely these series-wired packs didn't use matched cells- a major no-no with Li battery technology as major laptop makers have long known about. Understand that no matter what, there is a tiny chance you'll have a Li fire even with the best of precautions. Also beware the smoke from venting or flaming cells which contains Hydrogen Floride, a particularly nefarious chemical which if inhaled can destroy your lungs without giving any symptoms until hours after exposure. In it's liquid form from leaking cells it's readily absorbed through the skin and enters the bloodstream in seconds, not minutes where it can do much organ damage and even kill you. If you're exposed to either go for medical treatment immediately as the effects are irreversible and cannot be successfully treated with any time delay.

No battery technology is completely safe so the best we can do is know what we're doing and take steps to minimize known risks until we're comfortable with that. I do quite a few hazardous things in life which could severely harm or kill me and I'm not much worried about my LiIon use or storage. I monitor charging closely and take proper care of them which is enough for me.

 

[Dagoth Ur Does Solar]

I phased out all of the lion stuff and I'm all lifepo batteries now for my tools.

90% of my stuff is milwaukee with some black and decker and greenworks.

Curious on this one, did you have to rebuild packs yourselves for these?

I have been wondering if we'd ever see major companies go with LiFePO4 batteries for tools, but it seems to make less sense here where many of these companies are concerned with pushing absolutely as much current as possible out of these batteries to get an extra 2 lbf of torque on an impact. But having longer service life tool batteries would be nice... I try to baby mine and keep them at least halfway discharged if I'm not using them, and I pretty much only charge them on a standard slow charger.

Also, I guess what this thread is telling me is I should have like, 40 Milwaukee batteries crammed into my wooden workbench inside my house? I can't bring myself to put them in the shed where it will be 120F inside there in the summer.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Curious on this one, did you have to rebuild packs yourselves for these?

I have been wondering if we'd ever see major companies go with LiFePO4 batteries for tools, but it seems to make less sense here where many of these companies are concerned with pushing absolutely as much current as possible out of these batteries to get an extra 2 lbf of torque on an impact. But having longer service life tool batteries would be nice... I try to baby mine and keep them at least halfway discharged if I'm not using them, and I pretty much only charge them on a standard slow charger.

Also, I guess what this thread is telling me is I should have like, 40 Milwaukee batteries crammed into my wooden workbench inside my house? I can't bring myself to put them in the shed where it will be 120F inside there in the summer.

I would never put those batteries in your shed. Good way to destroy them long term.

 

[Dagoth Ur Does Solar]

I would never put those batteries in your shed. Good way to destroy them long term.

Yeah, I'm in total agreement. I try to keep them inside where it's climate controlled, and I try to keep them discharged below 50% when not charging them for use the same or next day.

These things are way too expensive for me to not baby them...