Last fire.. :-(

fhorst

making mistakes so you don't have to...
Last week we had a nasty fire.

I worked for months, used only high quality materials, tinned silicone wire that self fuses at 10A, and weeks between each step of construction to be absolutely sure things are safe

The lower layer was good.
Might look a mess with the wires, but absolutely safe, no terminal got more warm than any other, even with +150A charge.
IMG_20210706_113854_096_copy_480x270.jpg

How I know for sure it's safe?
Worked like that for over 6 weeks.

Week before started to build the next layer, placing the metal rack, plywood sheets and the repaired tread cells.

All cells where placed and all BMS wires (the pile spaghetti on the picture) was nicely between the cells to the top.
No crushed wires, no damage, all good.
IMG_20210706_113959_319_copy_480x270.jpgIMG_20210711_211808_712_copy_480x270.jpgIMG_20210711_211821_515_copy_480x270.jpg


Top layer received it's compression and that's it.
For days and days.

What happened?
I don't know.
Few days earlier one of my MPPT did not charge, so just one to charge 16* 280 and 16x 152Ah.
That's all that was connected on the lower base.

It went empty that night, my inverter stops at 48v.
Around 07.30 I looked and all was OK, not yet charge, rain outside.
We snugged back to bed :)
Half hour later lights went on again, 49v, restart voltage of the inverter.
08.30-09.00... beep beep beep, smoke detector allarm!

What happened... ??
Top layer of cells where placed like 60 hours before, and no bus-bar yet.

Previous day's we were in the town to visit lung doctors for my COPD, to time or energy to do anything new with the setup.

No high capacity charge, few hundred watts.
This is something that didn't move or got changed in days.

Perhaps a mouse?
Almost can't be.
Even if it did chew the BMS wires, it should self fuse. AWG22

After investigation of the scorching and location most likely is a instant selfdischarge of one of my 152Ah EVE cells.

Those where a trouble from the start. Who is interested.. enough old posts about them.
Use seach.. :)
FIY, the same pouch case is used for 120 and 135Ah cells.
There is a limit hou many sheets you can squeeze in, without getting into trouble.
152Ah was that limit.

Back then, start 2020, the 152's where the best bang for the buck, 280 came just looking and where high priced, compression as we now know is mandatory, wasn't even discussed.

Sure, taping together for ease of handling.. that ain't compression :p

And they bloated, quickly.
Little over a mm.
It did not seem to hurt the functionality. After a year of useage I tested it's capacity, overall 147, top 151, low 144Ah (that's 52 cells)

I did compress them afterwards, slightly.
Strong enough to have 6 cells together and not being able to lift one out from the middle, not so strong that the bloating disappeared.

I did notice that after a month or so, I could easily compress a little bit more, 1/4 threaded rods, tighten with pipe wrench by hand, just the round wrench, nothing extra needed.

That was 8 weeks ago or so since I tightened it for the last time.
And no need, busbars where good, with +4nm torque each on M6, +5Nm on M8
All worked tip top since.
Yes, only 432 of my total 1016Ah, but stable.

IMG_20210716_112203_212_copy_270x480.jpg

IMG_20210716_140114_192_copy_480x270.jpg
Bloated?? :p
2021-7-16 14-18-2_copy_270x522.jpg
Casing fused together.
2021-7-16 14-17-17_copy_270x522.jpg
Now they are bloated..

2021-7-16 14-18-44_copy_270x522.jpg
And the cell that most likely started the fire.

Instant selfdischarge, at +/- 15% charge
Creating enough heat to infect it's neighbours, who also selfdischarge, chain reaction.

The flames most likely are the Ox-guard, it's grease, and that self combust at 350-450c
Perhaps a light glow of self fusing wire was enough to ignite the grease.
Who will be able to tell.

Flames where calm, heat immense.
I worked at a bakery for several years and know the heat of 275c oven.
This was a lot more.

All lower level cells selfdischarge, bloating like a real pillow.
Top level, all precharged to 100% ...
Some bloated more, most a little or none at all.
They did get really hot feet.
I no longer thrust them for Safety reasons.

I reached out for a loan to my family in Netherlands, and now am the proud owner of 6 X 24v BYD packs with 3* Jikong 2A active balancer BMS.
In other words 3 X S16, 51.2v 260Ah, total 780Ah about 40 kWh.

Funny how life works.
That was my first BMS when all the troubles started.
I was a happy puppy the whole 3 days the Jikong worked.
Total pre-mature launch, where almost all units of first shipment got returned to the seller in a few weeks....
Now it's a grown up product.

IMG_20210720_183859_copy_1200x1600.jpg
I'll post some pictures later

What a development there has been in the last 2 years.

This wasn't available, if it was I absolutely would have started with this
Price?
41.500 THB, 1000 THB transport ($ 1.260 + 30)
Under 1300 for 260Ah 51.2v)
Including BMS.

All tax paid, delivery at my doorstep.

Roughly 60kg per pack.
That's 15-20 kg on structural integrity, safety, quality.
280Ah is 5.5kg, *8 is 44kg.
And it shows.

People... What the F are we still doing buying EVE or Lishen and try to do what robotics laser welding does?

Not anymore for the price!!
It's even cheaper then the. 200Ah deep cycle lead Acid we started with!!
(11.000thb / $335 for 12v, 48v 44.000 or $1360)

I'll post a separate thread about the BYD soon.

Take care and stay safe.
My experience is now that any compromised cell is a potential bomb.
Even with 15% charge, results are catastrophic.
In this case only for the cells, due my smoke detector alarm, concrete sheets around the battery and the help of my family.

Releasing the compression, last center nut did not twist smoothly.
A tiny bit of force and it snapped...
The 1/4 threaded rod.
That's how much force there can be on the compression, and even with this, just a few cells the vent bursted...

Know what you are playing with!!

Special thanks to @Just John , sorry the epoxies are used for demonstration, I didn't get the chance to test it with Bus-bars connected...
And won't be using the cells now..
Even with almost perfect repair 😂
 
Last edited:

toms

Solar Addict
That is nasty. Thanks for sharing, not too sure what we can learn from this - maybe an alarm from the BMS if a cell IR is out of range.

I haven’t seen a cell fail like this before. Definitely not cool :(
 

fhorst

making mistakes so you don't have to...
In the 18 months..
First incident was failing Jikong BMS and slightly bloating of the 32 152Ah cells .
Few months later failed dumb 250Ah Daly BMS, I already had ordered a smart 150A, that thing was useless.
Sometimes start, sometimes need precharged inverter, normally a start/stop loop.

I seem often be the first, many times "first time I hear about this" or "first time I see this".
Not because it did not happen before.
Most people only share their success story. Not their failure.
And sadly some members like to bash, kick in open doors, call things "stupid" or whatever.
Most of them don't even have a setup, or a sweet tiny 4 cells....
And have no clue what they talk about.
That negativity is a reason many do not share.
It would be nice if people could refrain from it this time.
Wishful thinking...
You'll see.
Smart asses who know better with unlimited funds and all knowledge of the world at start of their adventures.. they like to score.

One thing that might be seen as fault:
A few relocation of the cells.
Mount and re-mount of the screws.
Yes, back then I used the crappy screw and bus-bar from the seller.
A lost several threads.

Error? Not really...
Unknown at that time.
Now we know to use grubscrew and Loctite red with primer.

Also did not use electronic torque meter. You really can't tell by hand the correct torque.

Compression...
New information 18 months ago.
Perhaps due the stories about my bloating 152Ah's and other members, this became a hot item.

When Eve shared their white paper information about how much compression is needed, and how it increases the lifespan...
Now we know it as mandatory information.
Before this...
Just tape 4 cells together :)
(Look at the older videos of Will)
Later add some strap for increased compression
Even later sheets and rods.

Going parallel.
Error? Perhaps.
With parallel you have 2 or more cells
For me 3 X 152 (I bought some more) that double bus-bar, different screw depth, and also, if one cell contact isn't optimal, you won't notice via BMS, or measure voltage.
It probably will get warmer with higher capacity charge.

Mixing capacity.
Error? I don't think so.
Later I bought additional 280, 2 X 16.
Whooping 1016Ah.
It does increase complexity.

My advice now: buy one BMS per string.

What to learn?

- always have smoke detector-
- always have fire distinguisher
- if you aren't there, have automatically fire distinguisher (Halon /BC2000 kind that start at 68c)

- For placing / mounting.
Only once.
So beter be sure you do it right.
Compression, grubscrews, torque meter and Loctite red+primer.
The weak aluminium is not made for this, not intended.
And fooling around will damage.

How to fix? See my other post 🤣

- BMS
One for each string.
Over 100A, no Mosfet based but use Contactor.

And last but not least:
Where ever you build / place your battery, understand that it will catch fire, get hot, +/- 500c.
And you should be prepared for it.

Sure. Not all will burst out in flames.
Perhaps 5%.
If you don't prepare you will lose your house, shed or other place you have placed the cells.

You might get lucky and nothing went wrong during the whole installation.
Never a spark, a accidental short.
Perfect.
Then 1% risk or less.

Several small accidents?
You do your math.

An email or pop-up from the BMS you lost a cell...
Won't help.
The BMS will stop power, but selfdischarge continues, so does the cascade, as clamping cells together makes this a problem..
Left and right side will heat up also.
And start selfdischarge at high enough temperature.

What will help (and luckily I had) a safe enough location where this can happen and the cells can get crazy hot, without putting the house on fire.

Fire needs 3 things
Heat, food and oxigen.
Take away food, nothing to burn except it's own...
And any fire is contained.

Remove oxigen stoped the light flames that might have become a problem.
The self discharge did continue.
Cells where crazy hot for 24 hours
Even 36 hours later, several too hot to touch.
 
Last edited:

fhorst

making mistakes so you don't have to...
Thats why buying real grade A cells is worth the extra 25%.
Easy to say....

As at that time EVE were the "real A grade" ....
Even now seem by most forum members as "the best"

Availability has also a lot to do with being able to buy, not so much with the price.

My BYD I now purchased..
42500 THB S16 260Ah including Jikong 2A / 350A BMS ..
Roughly $ 1300,-
To get at my doorstep all tax paid

The 280Ah Eve cells..
Roughly $1750...

Actually...
Even 25% less to get real A grade...
23a7eb6b01c5fdea325556a100254db5_copy_409x409.jpg
One pack of 8* 260Ah cells.
About 60kg.
Automotive grade.

IMG_20210720_185113_238_copy_768x432.jpgIMG_20210720_185136_935_copy_768x432.jpg2021-7-20 18-53-46_copy_432x836.jpg
This is how terminal contact should be.

Why the #)_+@?!!
Are we still risking?

Cheaper and way, way better quality then we ever can do...

If it was only available 18 months ago.......
 
Last edited:

Mcgivor

Solar Addict
Sorry about the loss, at very least nobody was hurt and the fire was contained. Rodents are a particular problem in Thailand, of the failures I've had were the result of them stripping the insulation of the incoming array cables resulting in a short circuit, which tripped a breaker and the other a cell sense wire was chewed through resulting in a BMS shutdown. Keeping things open helps deter rodents this includes the hood/bonnet of a vehicle overnight, I've had to repair the wiring harness 3 times already within 3 years since new.

After reading the thread one thing came to mind, when clamping the cells, we're the busbar terminals loosened before hand, particularly those in a linear orientation to the clamping force, if this were not the case it could put excessive strain on a terminal post, resulting in failure

My first LFP bank is comprised of cheap no name cells, the cases are flimsy in comparison to the other CALB cells I have, they do have some swelling since day one but have never compressed, in service since September 2018, so farremaining in ballance without any problems.

Out of curiosity do you source your cells locally or order directly from China, personally I order most of my equipment from there as Thai sources, at least in Udon Thani, don't carry much and is all from China anyway with a markup.

Hopefully the future will be more fruitful.
 

fhorst

making mistakes so you don't have to...
I ordered directly from China, Alibaba.

Lazada/ shopee did not have much to offer then, and besides main shops like DoHome, Thaiwatsado...
I'm a noob in Udon town.

Not compress them is probably a good idea, if they are already bloated.
My 152 where, 280 where not.
And I liked to make it one set...

I know... Stupid me 😜
Cells are same wide....
So that was OK.

Absolutely...
Never make compression with the Bus-bars attached, unless yours are flexible.
The stress on the terminal with even a mm can be catastrophic.

I never did this, never will / would have.

Looking at the fire pattern and where the fire first started, I do think it's a cell failure.
why it decided to fail at that time, with just slightly receiving charge...
puzzles me, no idea.

The use of the cells in 18 months, failing BMSses, and a few being a few times being discharged below 2v, never overcharged above 3.75..
slightly clamping the bloat several times, and release + having too many sheets inside to start with.
Somewehere during that road things went sideways, ending in..

Sure.
we have mice from time to time.
and 35 cats (no joke)
we don't see them a lot anymore.
usually if there is rodent damage, many wires are damaged.
I did not see any rodent damage!

we also have fish..
They are dangerous:
Screenshot_20210724_210949_com.android.gallery3d_edit_61926456154091.jpgScreenshot_20210724_210955_com.whatsapp_edit_61917196661384.jpgScreenshot_20210724_211010_com.whatsapp_edit_61895769115554.jpgScreenshot_20210724_211015_com.whatsapp_edit_61885850894722.jpg
I guess you have to be Chinese to use fish oil to make cables more flexible, and use those for a pond pump..
And live in Thailand to be able to buy those products.
It never would have passed EU quality testing...
Lol.

Good thing our battery isn't in the pond!!
 

svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
...I seem often be the first, many times "first time I hear about this" or "first time I see this".
Thank you so much for reporting this... without reports of misadventures we can't learn how to better. I'm glad no one was hurt!
Sometimes stuff just happens whether it's mice or a bad cell; figuring out how to survive and recover from them is very important.

And last but not least: Where ever you build / place your battery, understand that it will catch fire, get hot, +/- 500c.
Best advice ever!

- always have fire distinguisher
I'm not sure a fire extinguisher will do much good, from what I've read recently cells have both fuel and oxidant, so once they go there's no stopping them.

For ev-battery fires, again from what I've read, the idea is they're trying to keep nearby cells from catch fire by hosing them down with water to keep them cool. I've heard LFP has to be over 100C to go, so keeping them cool with water sounds reasonable.

Makes me wonder if it wouldn't be safest to run at 12V and keep them submerged (or at least partially submerged) and some honeycomb material that keeps the water between cells yet still allows compression? Possibly an empty basin that can be flooded automatically if the smoke detector goes off? Seems like that might restrict the damage to the one cell that suffered the internal short. IDK... also sounds crazy ;-)

Update:
Good thing our battery isn't in the pond!!
And here I am suggesting it ;-)
 

DerpsyDoodler

Photon Sorcerer
In the 18 months..
First incident was failing Jikong BMS and slightly bloating of the 32 152Ah cells .
Few months later failed dumb 250Ah Daly BMS, I already had ordered a smart 150A, that thing was useless.
Sometimes start, sometimes need precharged inverter, normally a start/stop loop.

I seem often be the first, many times "first time I hear about this" or "first time I see this".
Not because it did not happen before.
Most people only share their success story. Not their failure.
And sadly some members like to bash, kick in open doors, call things "stupid" or whatever.
Most of them don't even have a setup, or a sweet tiny 4 cells....
And have no clue what they talk about.
That negativity is a reason many do not share.
It would be nice if people could refrain from it this time.
Wishful thinking...
You'll see.
Smart asses who know better with unlimited funds and all knowledge of the world at start of their adventures.. they like to score.

One thing that might be seen as fault:
A few relocation of the cells.
Mount and re-mount of the screws.
Yes, back then I used the crappy screw and bus-bar from the seller.
A lost several threads.

Error? Not really...
Unknown at that time.
Now we know to use grubscrew and Loctite red with primer.

Also did not use electronic torque meter. You really can't tell by hand the correct torque.

Compression...
New information 18 months ago.
Perhaps due the stories about my bloating 152Ah's and other members, this became a hot item.

When Eve shared their white paper information about how much compression is needed, and how it increases the lifespan...
Now we know it as mandatory information.
Before this...
Just tape 4 cells together :)
(Look at the older videos of Will)
Later add some strap for increased compression
Even later sheets and rods.

Going parallel.
Error? Perhaps.
With parallel you have 2 or more cells
For me 3 X 152 (I bought some more) that double bus-bar, different screw depth, and also, if one cell contact isn't optimal, you won't notice via BMS, or measure voltage.
It probably will get warmer with higher capacity charge.

Mixing capacity.
Error? I don't think so.
Later I bought additional 280, 2 X 16.
Whooping 1016Ah.
It does increase complexity.

My advice now: buy one BMS per string.

What to learn?

- always have smoke detector-
- always have fire distinguisher
- if you aren't there, have automatically fire distinguisher (Halon /BC2000 kind that start at 68c)

- For placing / mounting.
Only once.
So beter be sure you do it right.
Compression, grubscrews, torque meter and Loctite red+primer.
The weak aluminium is not made for this, not intended.
And fooling around will damage.

How to fix? See my other post 🤣

- BMS
One for each string.
Over 100A, no Mosfet based but use Contactor.

And last but not least:
Where ever you build / place your battery, understand that it will catch fire, get hot, +/- 500c.
And you should be prepared for it.

Sure. Not all will burst out in flames.
Perhaps 5%.
If you don't prepare you will lose your house, shed or other place you have placed the cells.

You might get lucky and nothing went wrong during the whole installation.
Never a spark, a accidental short.
Perfect.
Then 1% risk or less.

Several small accidents?
You do your math.

An email or pop-up from the BMS you lost a cell...
Won't help.
The BMS will stop power, but selfdischarge continues, so does the cascade, as clamping cells together makes this a problem..
Left and right side will heat up also.
And start selfdischarge at high enough temperature.

What will help (and luckily I had) a safe enough location where this can happen and the cells can get crazy hot, without putting the house on fire.

Fire needs 3 things
Heat, food and oxigen.
Take away food, nothing to burn except it's own...
And any fire is contained.

Remove oxigen stoped the light flames that might have become a problem.
The self discharge did continue.
Cells where crazy hot for 24 hours
Even 36 hours later, several too hot to touch.
I notice a lot of "error?" questions and answers. I wonder if the simple problem here may have been compounded risky decisions. Any of the questions alone, probably not a huge concern, but when you start compounding semi-risky or even questionably low-risk decisions, at some point I think you may get bit. was that the case here? I don't know and am not saying it is. It's just something to think about. Thank you for sharing!
 

fhorst

making mistakes so you don't have to...
Fire distinguisher does 2 things.
The green one for electrical fires.
(Halon is most known name)

1 remove the oxigen
2 cool down a lot!
Like submerge it in (almost) liquid nitrogen..
That's extreme.. not that cool.
But you get the idea.

If it's enough to stop new cells from selfdischarge, that's already a win.

Yeah, my understanding also.
If the battery starts to go, not much on stopping it.

There is liquid used for submerge computers
It would reduce the issues to one cell.
Price for that setup is probably double from the purchase price :)

Water 100% will work also, except as soon as one cell burst, it's no longer 100% H2O and will conduct electricity, what will make the whole set blow up.

Making it safe, and prepare for the fire that might (will) happen is the only really good advice.

If fire / heat source can't get food, it will die.
Just our task to limit the damage during burning phase (with or without flames) and let it die safely.
This can take days!
With just 15% SOC it's already 36 hours and still hot.
I guess I got lucky there

16271379308715262651237051133916.jpg

Even if we would not have been home, this baby would have stoped the fire, killed most heat.

But before it goes, 68c...
My Inverters would have been smoked also 😢

Edit:
We now have two small ones, work faster then sand, and for starting fire.. large enough.
2021-7-24 22-13-54.jpg

If things really go out of hand....
I guess I can make a 1500L watertank release..

It will prevent the house to burn down, but a LOT of damage.
As last resort 😜😜
 
Last edited:

fhorst

making mistakes so you don't have to...
At request of @chrisski , what was the first probelm...

Logic questions would have been, and the next?

Accumulation sure.
Probably or perhaps the cause.

@DerpsyDoodler
Let me ask you a simple question:
At what point would you say goodby to $6000 due to what error?
With the knowledge that $6000 is not American income money.

Average Thai earns 15.000-20.000 a month. ($450- 600)
Lucky I receive my income from Europe, Netherlands.
About 40% of my last earned salary.
Incapacitated due to lung and pain issues.
Still good money and I'm not complaining.
But $6000 is for me a lot of money.
About a year worth of savings, and then we need to be careful with our spendings.

And... Not there to use!
I neded to acquire a loan from my family to be able to buy the replacement.

You are "right", it's also kicking in an open door.
At what point would you have said:
F*CK it, let's forget about it and buy new.

We live off grid, no power storage isn't really an option.
With my COPD, some days I really need airconditioning to survive.
44c was regular this year, 2 years ago even 47c.

So please enlight me.
And this isn't even intended sarcastic!!
At what point is there a point of no return and others should stop, cry, throw away, and start over.

What error is too harsh?
Or what combination.

As I don't know.
For 6 weeks, since the last tweak on the lower layer, 16* 280 + 16* 152Ah worked without any troubles.
8 weeks before that, the 16* 280.

My biggest problem have been stripped threads and fixing them.
With it, not enough cells to make the installation.

During the 18 months, many have been eating dust, waiting to be installed.
Missing a BMS, or a few a good thread or...

I absolutely don't know at what point it wasn't safe anymore to continue.

Except what we do here... Is not safe to start with.
Drilling holes in terminals that are intended to be laster welded.
The rest is just cascade on that base.
 
Last edited:
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DerpsyDoodler

Photon Sorcerer
At request of @chrisski , what was the first probelm...

Logic questions would have been, and the next?

Accumulation sure.
Probably or perhaps the cause.

@DerpsyDoodler
Let me ask you a simple question:
At what point would you say goodby to $6000 due to what error?
With the knowledge that $6000 is not American income money.

Average Thai earns 15.000-20.000 a month. ($450- 600)
Lucky I receive my income from Europe, Netherlands.
About 40% of my last earned salary.
Incapacitated due to lung and pain issues.
Still good money and I'm not complaining.
But $6000 is for me a lot of money.
About a year worth of savings, and then we need to be careful with our spendings.

And... Not there to use!
I neded to acquire a loan from my family to be able to buy the replacement.

You are "right", it's also kicking in an open door.
At what point would you have said:
F*CK it, let's forget about it and buy new.

We live off grid, no power storage isn't really an option.
With my COPD, some days I really need airconditioning to survive.
44c was regular this year, 2 years ago even 47c.

So please enlight me.
And this isn't even intended sarcastic!!
At what point is there a point of no return and others should stop, cry, throw away, and start over.

What error is too harsh?
Or what combination.

As I don't know.
For 6 weeks, since the last tweak on the lower layer, 16* 280 + 16* 152Ah worked without any troubles.
8 weeks before that, the 16* 280.

My biggest problem have been stripped threads and fixing them.
With it, not enough cells to make the installation.

During the 18 months, many have been eating dust, waiting to be installed.
Missing a BMS, or a few a good thread or...

I absolutely don't know at what point it wasn't safe anymore to continue.

Except what we do here... Is not safe to start with.
Drilling holes in terminals that are intended to be laster welded.
The rest is just cascade on that base.
TLDR. All I said is it was something to think about. I didn't judge or point fingers. I'm not getting in a tit for tat with you about justifying your decisions and I don't expect you to do so, anyway. It was intended for your feedback. Take it and do with it what you wish (chuck it in a dumpster for all I care).

Anyway, sorry about your poor luck.
 

fhorst

making mistakes so you don't have to...
Advice stage is for me "too late" as I have no cells left to use 😢😜

For others however, it's good to get insight when it's no longer safe to use.

Most of us are hobbyist..
So act on gut feeling.

I hope for all others their installation goes perfectly well and they can learn from my mistakes to avoid them!!
 

curiouscarbon

Science Penguin
Wow @fhorst I am glad you’re okay enough to post.. very spooky event. Sorry to hear your system went up in flames.

Will try to study this and learn…☮️

I am hoping to integrate per cell temperature monitoring on future battery pack builds. Maybe I can add a feature to the microcontroller firmware to beep loudly if 1) any temperature is rising quickly or 2) any temperature is over a set threshold.

Thank you for sharing details so we can try to learn from the unfortunate event. I hope you can get back online soon!
 
Last edited:

svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
There is liquid used for submerge computers
It would reduce the issues to one cell.
Price for that setup is probably double from the purchase price :)
I was thinking more like lining the battery box with a waterproof tarp before putting the batteries in; could be pretty cheap. The neighboring battery case would have to go over 100C for the next one to go, and for that to happen all the water would have to boil out of the pool if the insolator/seperator between them was good. Hopefully, just one battery going is more manageable than all of them.

Hmm, I suppose the batteries couldn't sit directly on the tarp either, or the one that goes would melt through it.

Water 100% will work also, except as soon as one cell burst, it's no longer 100% H2O and will conduct electricity, what will make the whole set blow up.
They don't have to be completely submerged, aluminum is a good conductor of heat, so that might prevent that issue. But the chemicals out of the first battery in the water and over all other the batteries might be a long-term concern... IDK... maybe just rinsed them off after the crisis? Definitely have some sort of water diversion so the chemicals don't go into the pond with your fish ... actually, that might be something to worry about before the next rain.

Making it safe, and prepare for the fire that might (will) happen is the only really good advice.
Looking forward to hearing what you do. My batteries are bolted onto the side of the house. Concrete, but still...
 

DanBo

New Member
Really upset to read all this. Whilst we were communicating on a separate trivial issue I had with my inverter....little did I know you were going through all this pain and anguish. I had an electrical fire in a below ground swimming pool equipment room a few years back. Overheating transformer which was powering the pool lights caused the JB and various cables to catch fire. A couple of days jet blasting the room clean and some new cabling and it was all back in order. But for my solar system, I have my batteries in my electrical closet under the main (3phase) distribution board and masses of cabling. A fire there would be a disaster. Maybe I'll rethink on a different location for the batteries where there is less risk of damage to other equipment. Thanks for posting all this. Must have been difficult to put the post together. Many of us I guess are experienced engineers or passionate DIYers... we all make mistakes from time to time, causing 'sh!t' to happen. But this really big sh!t must have been hard to take. My sympathies.

Dan
 

k.neo

New Member
WARNING: THIS IS OFF TOPIC but does answer one question of the OP.
So please enlight me.
And this isn't even intended sarcastic!!
At what point is there a point of no return and others should stop, cry, throw away, and start over.
It goes like this:
When you value something in your mind and the actual thing/person/priviledge you value changes (i.e. disappears, stolen, burned or does not love you anymore), then you will feel the pain of loss. Feeling it once is enough. The next step is to remove the perception of value from your mind. Any limited experience will come to an end. If you insist on holding on to the "perceived value" while the "facts of live" have changed, you will experience repeated pain that is known as suffering. It is a sort of emotional computation where you repeatedly punish yourself by feeling bad, because things are not like you would like.
The tools to clean the mind are forgiveness and surrender.
 

Solar Steve

Solar Enthusiast
Thanks for sharing @fhorst - perhaps we can learn from your experience. It is a good (and very visual) reminder that the energy stored in LFP batteries can be extremely hazardous; we all need to take appropriate precautions.
 
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