Leaking Electrolyte from Bigbattery Powerblock

[Bob B]

Hmm, I would not call the thread hostile. Justifiably skeptical perhaps. There is the matter of living down the white grease claim. I can understand some discomfort there. As things stand I will forevermore associate Big Battery with "white grease eats your battery".

Then there is the claim that Big Battery discovered 11 leaking cells at the factory by inspection. Please excuse me, but given the circumstances I can't help thinking that when they say they found 11 then the real truth must be "way more" and "it happened to customers".

Sorry ... that post was hostile .... LOL Just kidding

I am on board with your "skepticism".

 

[Gazoo]

Hmm, I would not call the thread hostile. Justifiably skeptical perhaps. There is the matter of living down the white grease claim. I can understand some discomfort there. As things stand I will forevermore associate Big Battery with "white grease eats your battery".

Then there is the claim that Big Battery discovered 11 leaking cells at the factory by inspection. Please excuse me, but given the circumstances I can't help thinking that when they say they found 11 then the real truth must be "way more" and "it happened to customers".

I believe the reason Mr. Green never gave anyone any updates is because he found cell(s) in Seth's battery leaking. There is no way he could spin Seth's photos. He already tried spinning with the grease thing even though the photos showed something much worse than white grease. White grease is not going to cause the corrosion we saw either.

They claimed they found 11 out of 10,000. It doesn't make sense. If it doesn't make sense then it is a lie. That's what Judge Judy says...lol.

 

[solarbot]

I think something in the cell production process is just not getting as strong a seal as they expect, and rough handling during shipping and the orientation springs a leak.

You may be getting close to the truth. It might not take much of a bump. As I recall, Will's leaky cell was second from the bottom, so the two cells lying above are a hefty 7kg. Set the assembly down on its end with even slight momentum and bang, pop, squirt. Maybe.

Each cell is fixed to the circuit board at the electrode end but is free to move at the other end, however slightly. I seriously doubt Will's handling in any way amounted to rough, but with that mechanical configuration a rather small shock load could translate to a big hydraulic pressure spike. If the cell is full of fluid with no gas then it's incompressible and nothing can give way except the valve. After the valve first breaks free then maybe it can seep.

This theory seems to fit the evidence in Will's (ahem) case, but SethRR's is problematic because it apparently occured in transit, where the foam we saw in Colemab's photos should have been enough to damp any reasonable shock. However, the unit could easily have been set down heavily at the factory, after assembly and before shipping.

 

[sshibly]

As a small business owner myself, I feel BB's pain.
We might never know what caused the cells to leak, it really does not matter.
As a customer myself, I would want to be made whole. I understand bleep happens. I would get a replacement and use it.

I am not sure if we are expecting BB to go live on youtube and perform a "Yubitsume" ritual.

We certainly have a bunch of smart people here, who can definitely help understand the possible causes of failure. Really cool for everyone to come together to figure this one out.

I hope the BB will make the buyer of the leaking cells whole promptly.

My dealings with XUBA and left a rotten road killz taste in my mouth

 

[MrNatural22]

Customer service is what makes or breaks a business. Especially if it’s in the USA.

 

[colemab]

Just my opinion (and worth what you paid for it, nothing), if they aren't leaking, and you have them where the cells are upright, they will likely last as long as you expect without problems. If they get over charged and bloated, then of course you'll have a problem (just like any battery). I think something in the cell production process is just not getting as strong a seal as they expect, and rough handling during shipping and the orientation springs a leak. I would think the majority of the cells don't leak, or Lishen would have identified the problem and fixed their process already.

Yea, I have the same thoughts as you. I'll keep them on their back and hope for a long life given that they will almost never be charged to full - better yet over charged. (numbers indicate a 25% to 75% charge cycle for long term life of these batteries).

The fourth is in transit and should be here Monday. Fingers crossed!

On a side note the display just went out on my 100A Renogy charge controller so time to investigate their customer service . . .

 

[colemab]

4th unit came in today just fine. I hooked it up and then realized I lied about not charging the battery to full, I have to do that at least one more time to calibrate the BMV-712 shunt. I now have 17.5 kW (nominal) of big battery, watch the sun stay out for a month now. LOL

 

[colemab]

So the 4th unit doesn't have the green "QC Passed" button to the right of the front volt meter and doesn't have the red notice button above the power button. Also, it has white nylon handles vs the black handles on the other units. Wish BB would tell us about the differences. Like how do I know that the unit has the fire extinguisher without opening it up?

Anyway, I noticed that while looking at the batteries. I've been watching them since install because their voltage (4 wired in parallel) never seem to equal out. The original 3 almost always match but the 4th doesn't. I even tried charging them to 100% to balance but no good. Right now they are 3 units @ 26.5 v and the 4th at 29.8.

I'm starting to wonder if the 4th is working at all or is a bum unit because when I hit the power button on the other three, my inverter starts to die from low voltage - even though the 4th unit reports high volts. Crazy thing is that 4th unit had to have charged, it came in from shipping originally at 26.2 volts.

Any advice from the experts here before I contact BB? Thanks!

 

[Bud Martin]

So the 4th unit doesn't have the green "QC Passed" button to the right of the front volt meter and doesn't have the red notice button above the power button. Also, it has white nylon handles vs the black handles on the other units. Wish BB would tell us about the differences. Like how do I know that the unit has the fire extinguisher without opening it up?

Anyway, I noticed that while looking at the batteries. I've been watching them since install because their voltage (4 wired in parallel) never seem to equal out. The original 3 almost always match but the 4th doesn't. I even tried charging them to 100% to balance but no good. Right now they are 3 units @ 26.5 v and the 4th at 29.8.

I'm starting to wonder if the 4th is working at all or is a bum unit because when I hit the power button on the other three, my inverter starts to die from low voltage - even though the 4th unit reports high volts. Crazy thing is that 4th unit had to have charged, it came in from shipping originally at 26.2 volts.

Any advice from the experts here before I contact BB? Thanks!

I would ask BB to see what they will say. 29.8V that will be 3.725V/Cell. What happen if you try running the inverter on just the 4th pack, and verify the capacity?

 

[Just John]

I would ask BB to see what they will say. 29.8V that will be 3.725V/Cell. What happen if you try running the inverter on just the 4th pack, and verify the capacity?

I agree, you need quantifiable data to give them. If it doesn't work to specification, they should exchange it.

 

[colemab]

So I reduced the load (600w->15w) then cycled off the 3 units with the power button on each. Leaving just the 4th unit online. No problems other than the volt meter. Then I ramped up the load back to 600w and again no problems other than the volt meter. So I was likely triggering the low voltage alarm by staying under decent load while cycling the batteries.

So at this point I'm wondering if the volt meter is off or if the BMS is messed up. I'm going to phone them tomorrow when they open and see what they say.

 

[Bud Martin]

So when you say the Volt meter shows 29.8V on the battery pack built-in Volt meter, did you verify it with your own Volt meter?

 

[colemab]

Using the built in volt meter. Here is a photo of the 3 units in order. The 1st unit is out of the picture and the 4th unit is on the left in the photo.

 

[Bud Martin]

Using the built in volt meter. Here is a photo of the 3 units in order. The 1st unit is out of the picture and the 4th unit is on the left in the photo.

What does you Volt meter as?

 

[colemab]

I know it is hard to see but in the photo the readings are 26.2v from the display on the 4th unit, 22.93v from the meterk volt meter that is probed to the y adapter that is connected to units 3 and 4 but disconnected for this test. Unit 3 is powered off but as soon as unit 4 was powered on, it displayed 22.8v in the second photo.

So I'm thinking the volt meter just wasn't properly calibrated. I'm hoping it is independent of the BMS and thus decorative only.

 

[Bud Martin]

It does look like the meter is out off calibration.
I believe that the built-in Voltmeter is connected to the Battery output terminal, so you have battery # 4th is not turned on connected another battery, I.E battery #1 in parallel then switched on battery #1, the built-in Volt meters of the battery #4 will show the battery Voltage of the battery #1, both meters (Batt #1 and Batt #2 Volt meters) should show the same reading since both meters are reading the Voltage of battery # 1. I hope that make sense..English is my second language so I may not explain it correctly.

 

[Picasso]

those volt meters are all of $1, id check true voltage with a real meter.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

so...has big battery slinked into the shadows, then?

 

[colemab]

those volt meters are all of $1, id check true voltage with a real meter.

Yea real volt meter confirms it is off. So I'm betting the BMS is working on its own meter and that outside of the display this unit is functioning properly. I just don't understand out a QC/QA would have missed this very basic thing.

In any event, I am going to phone them today and see if the BMS is good to go or if I need to return. It will be interesting to see what they say. My other 3 units have been working flawlessly - which is why I bought the 4th.

 

[colemab]

I have waited a week so that BB can be given a chance to not only reply but revise their reply.

Their only reply so far was that I am "most likely experiencing is the batteries actively trying to balance themselves. ". Which is an odd statement given the fact that I sent them photos of the volt meter hooked directly into the anderson connector and the batteries could not have been balancing themselves. I ask them to review this and received no response. I also asked them to either cross ship & replace the unit or tell me that the BMS has its own volt meter and will function correctly.

They have chosen not to respond to these requests. Customer support so far has been bad (but not as bad as Renogy). They have until the end of the week before I open a charge back on my credit card for refusing to honor the warrany. I have requested a replacement in writing.

Very sad because the first 3 units were gold. The 4th appears to be working normally sans the external volt meter but who wants to risk using that from a company that won't even reply to emails any more?

 

[curiouscarbon]

Case closed I’m treating Big Battery like a criminal enterprise now. Enough fraud for me. Everyone is free to dissent and have a different opinion. I don’t care if their mission is to do green this or that. They are criminals evading responsibility for endangering human life.

It’s really easy to do green tech and not look like a scammer. One simply begins caring about human life and honesty.

Solution? Big Battery is on my special lifetime banned vendor list. Even 50 usd is too much to lose there, they would just gaslight me about it later....

 

[Sun]

What an eye opener to read about the Tesla crash Saturday that killed two men. The fire from the batteries constantly reigniting burned for 4 hours while 32,000 gallons of water were used to “try and put it out”.

 

[solarbot]

The fire from the batteries constantly reigniting burned for 4 hours while 32,000 gallons of water were used to “try and put it out”.

Which makes Big Battery's eensy weensy extinguisher look like the safety theater it really is. Good thing LFP thermal runaway usually stays below electrolyte ignition temperature, unlike Tesla's NMC cells.

 

[solarbot]

Which makes Big Battery's eensy weensy extinguisher look like the safety theater it really is. Good thing LFP thermal runaway usually stays below electrolyte ignition temperature, unlike Tesla's NMC cells.

 

[colemab]

I think that BB's extinguisher works by vacuuming out all of the air. As you probably know, there are multiple types of fires and not all extinguishers are rated for all types. So probably cheaper for them to take out the air.

Anyway, update on the Renogy broken screen - they are going to cross ship a replacement. I think this has to be a software problem because it is very hard to replicate.

On the BB front, they have replied and are going to have me send the unit in for them to look at. They offered a refund but of course I would rather have the working battery. The first 3 are gold so worth it for me to have them repair / exchange. I'm really happy with the 3 units and if they make the 4th right, then I'll probably still do business with them. I could really see getting 8 of these evenutally and once they are in service, I feel like they will last longer than most of the rest of my system (sans then panels).